New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2002-06-24 15:55:54

sollucky
Member
Registered: 2002-06-19
Posts: 5

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Our current government does not seem to even be interested in Mars, eventhough many people are. This reflects badly on our system, which is suppost to be representative of our wants and needs. This is not our govenments fault though. We as a people need to stand up and say what we want. I think we need to create a pro-Mars government. We need to create a party that supports Mars exploration and space colonization. Make it known that Mars is a subject that could get you elected.


Dreams are realities yet to be shaped

Offline

#2 2002-06-24 22:08:39

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

It would be challenging to hammer into the social consciousness the need to go to Mars with those high price tags.  We might stress the point that working to develop resources in space could help reduce the environmental strain on Earth, but such technologies would take so long to develop that the myopic public might not buy it.   Got any ideas that could hook the public on spaceflight, especially Mars?  I don't know if creating a party would be the most effective route.  Third party political candidates don't tend to do well, at least in the USA.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Offline

#3 2002-06-25 06:41:55

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Our current government does not seem to even be interested in Mars, eventhough many people are. This reflects badly on our system, which is suppost to be representative of our wants and needs. This is not our govenments fault though. We as a people need to stand up and say what we want. I think we need to create a pro-Mars government. We need to create a party that supports Mars exploration and space colonization. Make it known that Mars is a subject that could get you elected.[/quote:post_uid0]
So-called "3rd parties" in the US are typically no match for the almightly Democrats and Republicans (which are more alike then different these days,) and even if a third party were to be elected to office, it would most likely be of the libertarian/minimalist sort that would greatly [i:post_uid0]reduce[/i:post_uid0] the government's role in society, which certainly wouldn't bode well for the US space program. 

The best approach would be to elect someone like JFK, who would see going to Mars as a way to assert America's leadership in the world (something we're certainly lacking as of lately), and who could then rally the American people and Congress (and other countries as well) to develop a comprehensive program for human missions to Mars.  Even better, I think the "X-Prize" concept should be used to get people to Mars, as the government would only pay for actual results instead of incurring massive cost overruns that have nearly doomed the ISS to extinction...

B

Offline

#4 2002-06-25 10:05:29

sollucky
Member
Registered: 2002-06-19
Posts: 5

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

I am not expecting this party to get a president in office by its self. No all we really need to do is show that people want Mars, and people want space exloration. Also I don't expect to convert everyone to this party, no just unify those of us who already think this way. There are a lot of us we just need to organize and motivate. This party alone will not get us in space but it can't hurt.


Dreams are realities yet to be shaped

Offline

#5 2002-06-25 13:33:16

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Why not just support the Mars Society?  They accomplish a great deal when it comes to making people aware of the benefits of human missions to Mars, and they're taking this a step further by actually conducting research independent of governmental funding.

The U.S. government is actually a poor bet for future manned missions to Mars, especially after the year 2015 or so, when Social Security payments will begin draining the U.S. treasury...so the best thing to do is to generate independent, grass-roots support for Mars exploration, and cut the government out of it entirely.  Not only would it cost much, much less, it'd probably be carried out in a much more logical and practical manner.

B

Offline

#6 2002-06-25 19:13:49

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Even better, I think the "X-Prize" concept should be used to get people to Mars, as the government would only pay for actual results instead of incurring massive cost overruns that have nearly doomed the ISS to extinction...
[/quote:post_uid0]

I like this approach.  With the gloomy scenarios you brought up with things like Social Security, this might be our only chance.  I just hope cheap launch technologies become a reality sometime in the near future, technology that could be used without needing the government's budget.  Of course there are countries like China that could get to Mars, but I get the feeling they're just in it for the national pride and that their space program might die out the way the U.S. one did once the glamour of spaceflight wears off. 

I am not expecting this party to get a president in office by its self. No all we really need to do is show that people want Mars, and people want space exloration. Also I don't expect to convert everyone to this party, no just unify those of us who already think this way. There are a lot of us we just need to organize and motivate. This party alone will not get us in space but it can't hurt.[/quote:post_uid0]

I think what we need is a good propaganda campaign that appeals to peoples' emotions.  I know that's an evil thing to say, but hell, everybody else does it. sad


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Offline

#7 2002-06-26 03:31:08

Adrian
Moderator
From: London, United Kingdom
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 642
Website

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Sorry to take this off-topic for a bit (I know I should be setting a good example instead  smile ) but I saw a lecture given by some economists about the social security problem in the US, namely that the two youngest generations are soon to get a shock when their taxes go up to pay for pensions. What's the US going to do about this?


Editor of New Mars

Offline

#8 2002-06-26 06:34:37

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Creating a pro-Mars government

Sorry to take this off-topic for a bit (I know I should be setting a good example instead  smile ) but I saw a lecture given by some economists about the social security problem in the US, namely that the two youngest generations are soon to get a shock when their taxes go up to pay for pensions. What's the US going to do about this?[/quote:post_uid0]
I've had interest in this subject for a while, how the Social Security program will bring the U.S. to its knees in another generation or so.  The problem is that while the massive pension program has supposely "banked" surplus funds to pay future retirees...this is definately *NOT* what the government has been doing..instead, they've issued "IOU's" so the extra money can be spent now on things like bloated military programs and highway projects.  Around 2015, however, this game of financial musical chairs will come to a crashing end as there will no longer be any surplus funds generated by payroll taxes, and funds will instead have to be pulled from the general budget to pay back all those "IOU's," which already is in the *trillions* of dollars,

I seriously doubt the American public will stand for massive tax increases, considering how high they are now (I know Europeans pay more tax, but at least you guys get more benefits for the money than we do  wink  ) and there could very well be a serious generational divide that would seriously impact the future health of this country.  Instead of higher taxes, I think all so-called "non-essential" spending will be phased out, the first of which will probably be the space program  :angry:   Then it'll be the highways, social programs, education..all that will fall by the wayside in order to meet the ever-increasing demands of the elderly for their "entitlements," the majority of which who won't even need that money to live on.  The Baby Boom generation will eventually overwelm the younger generations that have come after them (like me..lol) and I just don't see how just two and a half workers will be able to support each retiree by mid century...something will have to give at some point! 

Hopefully the whole antiquated concept of "retirement" will fall by the wayside on human-inhabited Mars.  There's no reason why people can't continue to keep working into their 70's, 80's, and even 90's, if the proper accomodations are made, such as reduced workloads, etc.  Most work is mental these days, as opposed to hard, physical labor like in the old days, and I think it's a terrible waste of accumulated wisdom and knowledge of millions upon millions of people to "retire" while their minds (and often their bodies as well) are still very much in prime condition.

Personally, I think the Social Security program should be phased out as quickly as reasonably possible, and just be limited to a simple welfare program to assist the very poor in their old age.  At the very least, I think the retirement age should be raised to 70 or 75 (just think about how much longer people are living these days.."retirement" really shouldn't consist of a third or more of one's total lifespan) *and* I think benefits should be eliminated for anyone making, let's say over $75,000 per year...as those people certainly don't need that government income.

But try telling that to millions of seniors, who will claim they've paid "their share" of pension taxes, and believe me, they will want that money.  So who knows what will happen??  In case they do raise taxes high enough to put me in the poorhouse, there's always the option of that one-way ticket to New Zealand.  (Now, [i:post_uid0]that's[/i:post_uid0] a place to retire to...lol)

B

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB