Hubble Space Telescope Permanent Maintenance Station

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-18 12:41:11

For SpaceNut re #24

Thanks for continuing to think about how this topic could be advanced.

If I understand your point in sentence #2 correctly, the solution I am offering would appear to provide a solution.

A brand new Shuttle frame, built from original drawings (as of the last item constructed) would have all the capabilities of the original Shuttles, but it would NOT have heat shields or any extraneous equipment not needed for the service mission. For example (just one of many) it would not need wheels in the wings or in the nose. All the space recovered could (and should) be used for storage of liquids needed for flight up to the Hubble and back to LEO, and for operations while in service mode.

The cost of a brand new Shuttle designed for this specialization should be a fraction of the original cost. There should need to be minor expenditures to update electronics, and to improve subsystems where that is appropriate.

The massive engines could be replaced by much smaller ones suitable for adjusting orbit from LEO to Hubble and back. Due to the lack of heat shields, the design should employ rocket thrust to achieve safe return to LEO without atmospheric braking.

Transport of personnel from LEO to Hubble and back should be achievable by this design, but if an alternative vehicle is found more cost effective, then the Shuttle service unit could certainly transport hardware back and forth.

In place of the heat shields on the underside of the body and wings, solar panels would be a useful and appropriate substitute.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-20 23:18:35

edit
other items on this site
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/hubble/

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-21 06:19:14

For SpaceNut re #27

Thank you for this dramatic reminder of the value of Hubble!

I'd like to see this topic develop into a feasible, affordable, salable plan that Americans would support to put a permanent service facility on orbit just below Hubble. We've had several suggestions so far, but only two qualify for consideration as permanent. On the one hand, we have a truss floating in empty space, and that may evolve into something at some point. On the other hand, we have a fairly substantial proposal to build a Shuttle for the Service Mission using existing drawings but omitting unneeded mass (eg, tiles and wheels) while adding solar panels in place of tiles and modern electronics, as well as whatever improvements to the human habitat (cabin) modern capabilities allow.

There is a window of opportunity (in a social context) when the brush with demise is fresh in memory. A proposal should be on it's way to NASA and the Senate within a few weeks.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-21 18:12:04

Google came up with these snippets when I asked who made the Space Shuttle:

Rockwell International
Major American Manufacturing Conglomerate
Rockwell International
Rockwell International was a major American manufacturing conglomerate involved in aircraft, the space industry, defense and commercial electronics, components in the automotive industry, printing presses, avionics and industrial products. Rockw…
Wikipedia iconWikipedia
Founded: 1973
Ceased operation: 2001
Headquarters: Milwaukee
Spacecraft: Space Shuttle Challenger · Space Shuttle Columbia · Space Shuttle Atlantis · Space Shuttle Enterprise · Space Shuttle Endeavour
Rockets: Saturn-Shuttle · Space Shuttle
Subsidiaries: Aero Commander · Rocketdyne · EJA Engineering
People also search for

I assume NASA has copies of the plans, and there may be copies elsewhere.

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studied_S … le_designs

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-21 20:03:09

3d imagery can also be used to aid in a total redesign even when plans are in blue print paper or on micro film and not in digital media that was kept up to date with modern OS systems as has been found in the past.

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-26 11:35:30

The following was transmitted to the North Houston Chapter of the National Space Society, in care of FriendOfQuark1, who keeps a wary eye on the NewMars forum.

Begin transmission:

The links below are from GW Johnson, posting on the NewMars forum web site.

Dr. Johnson is a retired aerospace engineer who taught at all levels in the course of his long career.

The subject at hand is a proposal to build a vehicle to service the Space Shuttle.

While I favor building a Space Shuttle using existing plans, omitting the heat shield, wheels and engines, Dr. Johnson is in favor of designing a new vehicle from scratch.

My concern is that building a new vehicle from scratch is far more difficult to achieve than would be building a new version of a tried and true design, and fitting it for permanent Hubble service missions from LEO to Hubble and back to LEO.

Here are links to a series of messages by Dr. Johnson in the month of July, 2021.

I would like to think that someone in the North Houston chapter of the NSS would be interested in trying to persuade Dr. Johnson to visit the chapter during it's meeting August 7th.

Begin links, in reverse chronological order:

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 84#p181884

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 85#p181885

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 29#p181929

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 81#p182081

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 85#p182085

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 23#p182423

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 32#p182432

End Transmission:

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-26 19:22:30

dial up starting ….

This is the open cargo bay of a shuttle...look at all of the empty room and inside is an ISS module which is basically the size of the extended length cygnus.

The cargo bay is a space 15 ft (4.5 m) wide by 60 ft (18 m) long.

image_gallery?uuid=d27e1e05-d717-494e-ba6b-d581bfb8608a&groupId=163813&t=1360917444004

this is the insides of an ISS module.

modem screech ending.....

RobertDyck · 2021-07-26 20:20:16

I read about the Roman telescope.
Wikipedia: 2012 National Reconnaissance Office space telescope donation to NASA
In 2012 the NRO donated two KH-11 Kennen spy telescopes to NASA. One is configured for wide field, called Roman. The other is not yet committed. Appears these were the telescopes Shuttle's cargo bay was designed to carry. Hubble has the same diameter mirror because Hubble was designed to fit in Shuttle's cargo bay. For some things Roman is a significant upgrade. And Roman will be able to image UV. But it's wide field. Should we lobby for the second one to be configured for asteroids?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-02-28 16:58:26

Ship of Theseus is still the Ship of Thesesus?

Orbiting robots could help fix and fuel satellites in space
https://knowablemagazine.org/article/te … satellites

Hubble Looks at a ‘Space Triangle’ Spawned by a Galaxy Collision
https://esahubble.org/news/heic2201/

tahanson43206 · 2022-02-28 19:04:09

For Mars_B4_Moon re #34

Thanks for all your recent posts, with links to resources in support of the topics ...

I'm adding this note about your link to the Knowable Magazin story about on orbit robots ...

For his part, Henshaw is working on Robotic Servicing of Geosynchronous Satellites, a US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)-funded mission. If it succeeds in a demonstration scheduled for 2024, it would mark the first time a robotic craft has managed to grab a satellite that was not specifically designed to dock with it. Henshaw and his colleagues recently explored some of the challenges faced in servicing satellites with space robots in the Annual Review of Control, Robotics, and Autonomous Systems.
Artist’s conception shows the telescope in space with its segmented mirror, antenna, solar panels and other parts fully unfolded.

Large Ship needs to be assembled in LEO, and the best way to do that is with teleoperation.

The work reported in the Knowable Magazine article shows promise of having capabilities for flexibility not currently available.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-03-13 08:54:17

Hubble telescope captures spectacular laser-like jet from infant star (photo)

https://www.space.com/hubble-space-tele … star-photo

SpaceNut · 2022-03-13 12:56:16

That is a double wow as to be pointed at the correct location and selected magnification is is just what we can do if the eyes are open and focused.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-05 04:45:27

Hubble finds a planet forming in an unconventional way

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Hubb … y_999.html

NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has directly photographed evidence of a Jupiter-like protoplanet forming through what researchers describe as an "intense and violent process." This discovery supports a long-debated theory for how planets like Jupiter form, called "disk instability."

The new world under construction is embedded in a protoplanetary disk of dust and gas with distinct spiral structure swirling around surrounding a young star that's estimated to be around 2 million years old. That's about the age of our solar system when planet formation was underway. (The solar system's age is currently 4.6 billion years.)

"Nature is clever; it can produce planets in a range of different ways," said Thayne Currie of the Subaru Telescope and Eureka Scientific, lead researcher on the study.

Hubble telescope spies striking spiral galaxy that's part of a huge cosmic structure

https://www.space.com/spiral-galaxy-vir … bble-photo

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-04-05 04:55:47)

tahanson43206 · 2022-04-05 05:42:00

For Mars_B4_Moon re #38

Thank you for bringing this topic back into view. The news of Hubble's latest achievement is a suitable frame for a renewal of this topic, which seeks to put a permanent service facility on station with Hubble.

Such a facility would have all the capabilities of the Space Shuttle, but would be purpose built to allow visits by astronauts travelling in light weight capsules.

I believe Hubble has earned the investment that would be needed.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-04-05 20:52:52

There needs to be a list of items that need to be repaired/replaced and then a cost for these items such as to be able to extend the service years that it could still have.
Once you have then then comes the hard part which is the mission planning portion of the work ahead.

tahanson43206 · 2022-04-06 05:33:09

For SpaceNut re #40 ...

A starting point for the list you have (wisely) proposed is all the components of Hubble that have already failed.

Hopefully that is a subset of all the components that might fail.

The permanent on-orbit maintenance station i am proposing does not have to have any of the flight features of the Space Shuttle, but it needs all the features that supported a human crew and their work on shuttle.

The ideal would be to provide a facility so robust, that a single Dragon capsule with trunk, could supply everything needed for a successful service mission.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2022-04-06 08:22:24

Tom:

I pretty well had the concept sought here, some years ago. It's posted on "exrocketman" as "End of an Era Need Not Be End of a Capability", posted 2 August 2011. I did update it last year (6 July 2021), to be more detailed, and more in line with the vehicles currently flying. What's in that update is the most pertinent.

GW

tahanson43206 · 2022-04-06 09:28:05

For GW Johnson re #42

Thanks for picking up (again) on this topic! And thanks again to Mars_B4_Moon for bringing it back!

For SpaceNut ... the list of elements you want to see repaired (or able to repaired) will be a terrific addition to this topic, if you can squeeze it into your tight schedule. What I'd be looking for is not just a list, but estimates for mass, difficulty to repair, lifetime to be expected, and any other details you can find!

For GW Johnson ... I'll make you a deal ... collect the Blog Post, package it as a docx as you've been doing, and I will publish it in this topic, and in the GW Johnson postings topic.

It definitely sounds relevant to this topic, and ideas worth bringing back into view.

Here is the post where links to GW Johnson's articles about Hubble Maintenance are available.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-04-06 19:46:12

I know that the last Hubble issue was to do with both computers it took quite a while to get it back up and working.
I am sure that its going to need most everything that was replaced last time as well done in terms of batteries and many other items.
Sure we can give it upgrades to its abilities as well.
I think the topic may have survived that has the last items listed with in it.

The current need is a temporary work platform but the question then evolves into how often would you use and need the permanent one?
The temporary then again is not necessarily something that we can reuse for the most part and having the more permanent means we need a taxi plus cargo unit that we can go to it while its in a safe station keeping location away from the telescope.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-13 03:37:39

Hubble confirms largest comet nucleus ever seen

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Hubb … n_999.html

NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has determined the size of the largest icy comet nucleus ever seen by astronomers. The estimated diameter is approximately 80 miles across, making it larger than the state of Rhode Island. The nucleus is about 50 times larger than found at the heart of most known comets. Its mass is estimated to be a staggering 500 trillion tons, a hundred thousand times greater than the mass of a typical comet found much closer to the Sun.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-20 05:36:51

Hubble Space Telescope celebrates 32nd anniversary with gorgeous gravitational 'dance' photo
https://www.space.com/hubble-space-tele … sary-photo

Hubble looks at a planet where vaporized rock may rain out as molten rock at night
https://news.yahoo.com/hubble-looks-pla … 05398.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-07 09:55:59

Hubble Reveals Surviving Companion Star in Aftermath of Supernova

http://spaceref.com/astronomy/hubble-re … rnova.html

SpaceNut · 2022-05-07 19:48:07

Hubble shows why its still worth keeping even with JWST...

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-09 07:42:27

Global citizen science project finds over 1700 asteroid trails in Hubble images

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Imag … ble_images

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-19 14:06:30

A dazzling Hubble collection of supernova host galaxies

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Imag … t_galaxies

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#26 2021-07-18 12:41:11

Re: Hubble Space Telescope Permanent Maintenance Station

#27 2021-07-20 23:18:35

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