Vertical Wind Turbine - better than you might think

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-13 17:52:50

Thanks to Calliban for the link given in Post #50

I watched the video and saw lots of solar panels and traditional wind turbines, but not much about the Aeromine design.

Aeromine has a patent, so if anyone is interested in more details, here is a link to the patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7488150B2/en

(th)

kbd512 · 2024-08-13 19:59:29

Aeromine's internal wind turbine device trades external moving parts for internal moving parts. No concrete data on typical system performance, dimensions relative to conventional wind turbines for equivalent power, or other specifics were provided, merely assertions without specified conditions. No explanation as to how leaves, pine needles, insects, or other dirt and debris are removed is provided. I'm guessing (but not really guessing) that it requires periodic cleaning, much like an aircraft's wings and tail surfaces. How cheap and easy or costly the maintenance is not easy to determine. Can it be made from fiber-reinforced plastic and easily taken apart and sprayed off with a pressure washer or a hose? What kinds of tools are needed for inspections? Is it possible or likely that ingested organic debris could make the motor-generator a fire hazard?

Apart from using the venturi effect to drive a smaller wind turbine, I find their claims about cost and space required unconvincing and highly dubious, because overall system performance is still highly dependent upon the volume and velocity of air ingested into the turbine, as compared to the much larger conventional wind turbine units using incredibly well-established aerodynamic principles and math. Aeromine's units are quite small, so the power they generate will be reduced due to their small size.

As to whether or not it's less obtrusive, that's a matter of perspective and design characteristics. If a field contains thousands of these devices instead of dozens of traditional wind turbines, then all they've done is increase the quantity of man-made materials clutter (bases / mounts, machines, power inverters, electrical wiring, etc). To obtain more consistent wind speeds resulting in more constant and reliable output, their units are as dependent upon wind speed and volume as any other more conventional wind turbine device (this means they're still best mounted far above from the ground on a pole). They can validly claim that the probability of their devices killing birds is far lower, so that is a major point in their favor, but said devices will inevitably become insect / debris vacuums or possibly homes for various types of stinging insects.

It looks like it does provide the ability to generate more consistent power onsite from wind, provided it's mounted high enough overhead, but without fast storage (electro-chemical batteries) it's a system that has near-zero "spinning reserve", so I hope they have one heck of an inverter design paired with their device. None of these systems "work seamlessly with the building's existing electrical system". That is outright lying, plain and simple.

There are no "inherent aerodynamics of a building", just as there are no "inherent aerodynamics of a tree". As always, a building's effect on wind current velocity and direction is a function of its shape, size, height, and geographic features that vary by location, much like the air currents over an airfield or the efficiency of a particular type of airfoil moving through the air at a particular speed.

I really wish the company would provide detailed design studies and send some samples of their devices to different locations to accurately evaluate real world performance across a broad spectrum of environments, both deserts that might sand blast the device's internals, cold locales that might ice-up the internals, and humid maritime locations to see how salt water vapor affects the entire device. Give them 5 years to see how well they hold up over time. If they truly are better, then we'll start using more of them. I do like the inventiveness of the device, the use of natural principles to eliminate gigantic high-speed airfoils that can easily injure / kill / destroy entire buildings, and at least the potential to be cleaner / greener machines, but this really does require much more performance research. The reason we have so many conventional wind turbines deployed across the world is that we do know how they perform.

Verdict:
Aeromine's device might be a better mouse trap, but the jury is out until the performance data rolls in.

kbd512 · 2024-08-13 20:01:15

Ziroth - Deep Dive Into Rooftop Wind Energy (Aeromine)

Calliban · 2024-08-14 03:19:18

Like all small wind turbines, the output of the aeromine will be highly dependant on local topography. Close to the ground, obstacles introduce turbulence that leads to random and unpredictable changes in wind direction and velocity. This is why even small wind turbines end up being put on high towers. In this case, we are talking about putting these things on rooftops. It may work well for a customer, it may not. It will depend upon factors unique to that location. That lack of predictability is a problem in itself.

The other thing I note from the video is that the advantages of a fixed venturi without moving parts, makes this device suitable only in locations where the majority of wind comes from a single direction or within 45° of that direction. The venturi is aligned accordingly. For a lot of places that condition is met, but not all. Introducing wind tracking destroys a lot of the advantages of a venturi without moving parts, because it introduces a moving part.

Another important cost driver that I don't see being discussed is the power density of the turbine. If the turbine can be made relatively compact in a device that otherwise has no moving parts, then this may be a winner. But if it ends up having to be the same size as a horizontal axis turbine, but including the venturi and piping, then it has lower whole system power density. I don't have an answer.

Dependant upon the answers to the above, a venturi based small wind turbine could offer some significant advantages. The venturi could be a fixed masonry structure that would have very long life. There are ceramic chimneys standing in the UK that date back to Tudor times and many Victorian houses have original chimney stacks. A fixed masonry venturi built into a structure should last as long as the structure. The turbine itself can be close to the ground, making it easier to maintain. From a noise and visual disruption viewpoint, a venturi based system has obvious advantages. These things matter in the UK where everything you do needs planning approval and people are crammed together like sardines.

Additional. This site provides wind roses for airports at locations across the world. It includes all US states. This should help guage whether your location is suitable for a DIY venturi effect wind turbine.
https://www.climate.gov/maps-data/datas … ata-tables

Last edited by Calliban (2024-08-14 03:24:42)

tahanson43206 · 2024-09-24 17:52:04

This topic by Louis appears to be a good fit for this report on wind energy capture in Afghanistan.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/asbads- … 48574.html

A few of these systems still exist, apparently.

The creator of the first windmill
Abu Lu’lu’a Firuz was a Persian slave who lived in the mid-seventh century AD. He was a non-Muslim and may have originally been a Zoroastrian priest.
Non-Muslims were banned from entering and living in the region’s Rashidun Caliphate, the empire that immediately succeeded the prophet Muhammad. But because of his exceptional engineering skills, Firuz was allowed access to the capital in Medina alongside his master.
Firuz specialized in machines that could harness the wind and attract the caliph’s attention. According to the History of al-Tabari, a chronicle written in 915AD, the caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab said, “I heard you make windmills. Make one for me as well.”
“By God, I will build this windmill of which the world will talk,” Firuz replied.
This seemed like a good set-up for political favor but it did not turn out that way. Umar established a harsh tax which Firuz refused to pay. Firuz then assassinated Umar while the caliph was leading prayers in a mosque. We are not sure what happened to Firuz after.
However, we know that his invention stood the test of time and still functions today. He created a type of windmill referred to as a panemone. This is a windmill with a vertical axis. Only a handful of them still stand.
Harnessing the wind

I note that Calliban described a version of this device in https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10448

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2024-09-24 17:56:27)

Calliban · 2024-09-25 09:56:30

The Iranian wind turbines are relatively inefficient. But they have the advantage of being extremely simple, easy to make and constructed from easily sourced materials like mud bricks, stone and wood. The longevity of these devices also makes EROI a less important consideration. If something is going to last for centuries and was made from low energy cost materials in the first place, it will pay back its energy investment many times over throughout its lifetime.

Simple devices like this could be used to pump water at low speeds. As I detail in the thread linked below, we could use direct mechanical wind pumps to power continent scale freight distribution.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10893

The firction in pipelines is proportional to flow velocity squared. This means that if wind energy generation drops by half, pumping speed will drop by 29%. If the wind power density doubles, then pumping speed increases by 41%. Even if wind speed drops to only 10% of baseline, the water fliwrate in the pipe will still be 31% of baseline.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-09-25 09:59:42)

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Re: Vertical Wind Turbine - better than you might think

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