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#51 2004-08-11 15:56:39

DonPanic
Member
From: Paris in Astrolia
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 595
Website

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

LO

Should New Yorkers have to pay for road signs in English...and Spanish, Cantonese, Vietnamese, German, Italian, Swahili, Arabic, etc.?

Quite fantasmatic...isn't it ?
In most languages, New York stays New York and Paris, Paris  ???
Here east asiatics are among the best pupils in schools and even speak a better french than natives, they dont need any chinese or viet or khmer road sign.
City Council just have to print native language booklets for the parents.

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#52 2004-08-12 05:02:32

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

Again, I feel this goes back to the "assimilate or not" issue.

Exactly, assimilation is key. Immigrants that don't assimilate aren't really immigrants at all. They're foreign colonists.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#53 2004-08-12 05:38:51

Algol
Member
From: London
Registered: 2003-04-25
Posts: 196

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

But how much should one be expected to assimilate and in what areas?

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#54 2004-08-12 06:00:14

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

But how much should one be expected to assimilate and in what areas?

Becoming reasonably proficient in the language and understanding and accepting the values and ideals of the society. When there is a direct conflict between your own ways and those of your adopted country, defer to those of the land in which you reside.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#55 2004-08-12 06:29:43

Algol
Member
From: London
Registered: 2003-04-25
Posts: 196

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

What about western contractors working in the middle east?

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#56 2004-08-12 06:42:35

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

What about western contractors working in the middle east?

It would be prudent for them to bow to local customs, except when amongst themselves. Iraq, however is a slightly different situation in that it's an occupied nation that we are trying to change.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#57 2004-08-12 07:56:34

BWhite
Member
From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2004-06-16
Posts: 2,635

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

It would be prudent for them to bow to local customs, except when amongst themselves. Iraq, however is a slightly different situation in that it's an occupied nation that we are trying to change.

Response:

A>   Bait and switch. That is not how the war was sold.

B>   Credibility. In light of A, there is a credibility issue about whether the Administration means what it is saying.

C>   Insufficient means to accomplish A. More money is needed to accomplish the largest nation building projetc ever attempted. As I said 6 - 9 months ago, maybe a trillion dollars of US tax money.

D>   Unilateral. In light of A how can we expect broad consensus in the international community? And, if our goal really is to re-make Iraq in our image then its only natural for France and Russia to object.


Give someone a sufficient why and they can endure just about any how

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#58 2004-08-12 08:08:24

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

A>   Bait and switch. That is not how the war was sold.

Funny how the majority of people objecting to how the war was sold weren't buyin' regardless.  :;): Most who did support it still do, so perhaps the sales pitch wasn't as significant as some would make it seem.

B>   Credibility. In light of A, there is a credibility issue about whether the Administration means what it is saying.

Only amongst the small percentage of people that were actually duped, whether intentionally or through error. The bulk of people were either for the war regardless of the pitch-of-the-day or against it regardless of the justification offered. It's just we're all still so covered in muck that it's hard to see clearly.

C>   Insufficient means to accomplish A. More money is needed to accomplish the largest nation building projetc ever attempted. As I said 6 - 9 months ago, maybe a trillion dollars of US tax money.

Means are sufficient for a long-term operation with gradually tapering down of expenses. This is not without precedent. Difficult yes, but hardly impossible.

D>   Unilateral. In light of A how can we expect broad consensus in the international community? And, if our goal really is to re-make Iraq in our image then its only natural for France and Russia to object.

The International community falls into similar categories to our own population. Those for, those against, all for their own reasons. France and Russia had some very mundane economic reasons for objecting, for more important than a fear that we'd make Iraq America in the coming decades.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#59 2004-08-12 09:23:23

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,278

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

You all have been busy while I was away.  big_smile

Gennaro, you're right, I don't know what I was talking about. I haven't a clue. Luckily I have your very forward, very wise, and very progressive world view to set me straight.

Don't let the immigrants into your country. You're Europe, and you have a lot of problems to sort out. I doubt you could seriously handle this one as well. Might I suggest though that you try to increase your birth rate, it is woefully low.

Seriously, the problems in Europe are conducive to creating the problems with immigration you experience. Here in the states, it is a bit different. So, with that, cherrio, and good luck!  smile

Now, to the language bit...

What exactly does everyone want? Naturalized immigrants have to learn passable english to become a citizen. Not enough? fine, change the requirement that makes it harder to get naturalized and we end up with less naturalized immigrants. We end up with more illegal immigrants who contribute to the underground economy. We end up with a greater need for more cops and immigration officals because we make it harder to be an American. We end up creating conditions whereby illegal immigrants form ghettoized communites (out of neccessity) and prevent full cultural assimilation of themselves and their children.

Cause and effect dudes. If you see value in the above, more power to you. I guess I failed at logic somewhere, because it makes absolutely no f*cking sense to me.  big_smile

Now, I really don't know what else you guys want with language because if you happen to go into ANY public school you will find that the books are in english, the classes are taught in english, and oh my god! They even have entire classes dedicated to english! Bi-lingual education aside, this is pretty much the rule. Most immigrants don't have time, nor inclination to home school their kids. So by and large, the children of immigrants learn English. in a generation, the issue of language is wiped away.

Now, just to nip it in the bud, in the case of bi-lingual education- PTA is a remarkable instution, local control of schools is a good idea. Leave it alone, and let those with an interest offer it. If you disagree, fine, whatever. Let people in local communities who have a direct stake choose for themselves.

But again, the complaints I've seen are a lot of hot air. New laws and requirements, for what? More regulations? To make it harder to become an American? It's already pretty difficult as is, and making it harder will only cause the ranks of illegal immigrants to swell (along with all the other issues inherent in that problem).

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#60 2004-08-12 10:13:51

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

What exactly does everyone want? Naturalized immigrants have to learn passable english to become a citizen. Not enough? fine, change the requirement that makes it harder to get naturalized and we end up with less naturalized immigrants. We end up with more illegal immigrants who contribute to the underground economy. We end up with a greater need for more cops and immigration officals because we make it harder to be an American. We end up creating conditions whereby illegal immigrants form ghettoized communites (out of neccessity) and prevent full cultural assimilation of themselves and their children.

Or, we continue as we are and as you suggest and end up with a steadily growing population of people that can't or won't speak functional English, thereby cutting them out of the mainstream economy, forcing them into ghettoes and thereby preventing assimilation, and increasing the likelihood that they'll resort to crime.

So the problems you describe will be the direct result of the approach you advocate!  :laugh:


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#61 2017-09-03 08:46:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,903

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

Another old topic to fix as its go all the shifting and artifacts contained within it that makes it unreadable....

finished after a day out with family

Last edited by SpaceNut (2017-09-03 18:16:38)

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#62 2017-09-06 04:11:40

bobunf
Member
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: 2005-11-21
Posts: 223

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

I'm sorry you went to the trouble of recovering it.  What a disgusting set of xenophobes.

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#63 2017-09-06 16:55:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,903

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

Ya I know and the deciding factor is not my president as he is the biggest of them.
19 Indonesians living in NH receive deportation orders including one with stage-four cancer.

you must be kidding me as the 19 are illegally in the country but check in monthly with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). ICE told them to return next month with plane tickets that show a November departure.

Most of the Indonesians live in the Seacoast area. ICE has said the Indonesians have exhausted their appeals, and ICE had allowed them to stay in the country for seven years, when one or two years is the norm.

Last month, 23 Indonesians were told to return with plane tickets.

Why so long to file paperwork to become a citizen....

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#64 2021-09-09 05:42:15

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 1,043

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

Some will be immigrats or migrants trying to flee, real refugees. But what if I offered you a bowl of Candy Sweets and told you one in every thirty of these sweets were terrorist poison sweets...would you take them?
Refujihadi urban dictionary

An Islamic terrorist who enters a western nation under the pretense of seeking asylum
A refujihadi came from Syria to Greece and then made his way to Paris to commit acts of terror.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. … Refujihadi

...and the overall cultural impacts


What are the 'bacha bazi'?

Sen. Tex Cruz blasted President Biden after reports that a number of adult male Afghan refugees had arrived in the United States with child brides.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/04/ted-cruz- … to-us/amp/


Canada?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic … s-at-same/
Trudeau says he can campaign and manage Afghan refugee crisis at the same time

Afghans Refugees in Latin America ... coming to the US border soon?
https://www.archyworldys.com/afghanista … ome-world/

Muslim man accused of fatally shooting a female Lyft driver and firing his gun inside police headquarters appears to have been inspired by Islamic terrorists
https://barenakedislam.com/2021/08/30/t … errorists/

Is North Africa, Russia the former USSR islamo stanis, Turkey ... is that South of the EU border politics?



I guess in a ways this could be joined to 'South of the Border Politics'


The fall of Ghadaffi in Libya what followed was a civil war and then gun running into Syria, the North of Iraq and the creation of ISIS ... now ISIS is dead but the Taliban is back and Kabul has fallen.


Priti is a British politician serving as Home Secretary
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … round.html

The Home Secretary told officials to rewrite law so boats can be turned back despite protests from France
Some 14,000 migrants are thought to have arrived via the Channel this year amid anger at Paris failure

People smuggled on small leaky sinking boats?
previous day, 456 were rescued by Britain, and 326 by France.

Grilled on the situation at PMQs yesterday Boris Johnson admitted that the government is reliant on the French, but insisted ministers will use 'every possible tactic' to ease the problems. 

It comes following a G7 interior minister's meeting yesterday during which Ms Patel told her French counterpart the British public 'expect to see results' from French efforts to prevent ongoing migrant crossings.

Afghan refugee aka refujihadist in Germany goes stabbing, freaks out when he sees women working
https://thepostmillennial.com/afghan-re … or-working

Mike Rivero sometimes conspiracy-ish reading radio news
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Je6Y1B9XZ3ql/

Trial Begins For 20 Men Accused In 2015 Paris Attacks
https://rumble.com/vm8nue-trial-begins- … tacks.html
Prelude to the attacks in France by a deadly terroristic mohammedan assault on the offices of satiric cartoon magazine Charlie Hebdo. The attacks were the deadliest in France since the Second World War, and the deadliest in the European Union since the islamist mohammedan Madrid train bombings of 2004, at that time a dumbass Spansih guy called José María Aznar with a dumbass looking Hitler Joe Stalin moustache, with scruffy looking hair and a dishonest face, looking like a sterotype head from a Western Cowboy film he tried to blame the Spanish bomb attacks on Catalan, Basque and other independent movementsand ethnic minority groups in Spain, it set ethnic relations back years and lead to the collapse of the 'Conservative' government who kissedtheass of the islamist jihad and tried to cover up their bombings. A memorial service for the victims of Madrid was held and by the victims' families, the King Queen, and representatives from numerous other countries Tony Blair, French president Jacques Chirac, German chancellor and U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. The French attacks have probably lead to full martial law style lockdowns across France a near total collpase of the French economy but the poor dishonest leaders Sarkozy, Hollande, Macron won't admit it, There will loss loss of trade for both France and england because of Brexit and there have been ongoing lockdowns with the Yellow Vest and the Corona virus and Covid restrictions. Whatever way France does its creative accounting it has managed to 'Avoid Recession' despite the reality of the unrest.

Give the ungrateful islamic jihadi moslem zealots a lite beer and some pork sandwich?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/r … s-n1476439

What is the hegira or hijra? Can anyone explain to me the words
Can anyone expalin those words are Taqiyya, Al-Tawriya, Kitman and Al-muruna ???

the border remained open in the South with gangs making profit in the crossing and back in the days Amazon Spaceman Jeff ccouldn't keep workers at his sweat shops.

Why Merkel or New Zealand or why is Biden asking for $6.4 BILLION to relocate 95,000 foreign alien persons across America? Is he sure they are all honest refugees...btw That's over $67,000 per person, they get homes built on US Tax payer money....
numbers may even be a shigh as 100, 000 persons?
https://gellerreport.com/2021/09/biden- … -u-s.html/

Refugee resettlement costs American taxpayers nearly $9 billion every five years, according to research, and each refugee costs taxpayers about $133,000 over the course of their lifetime.

Stream How Islam Defeated the Kafirs in Afghanistan by Political Islam - free on SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/politicalislam/h … fghanistan
Bill Warner he was wrote about "Sharia Law for Non-Muslims"

Taliban name caretaker Cabinet that pays homage to old guard
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142796679

Kabul airport reopens with help from Qatar
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3 … ts#comment

Cops and Agents are shot at near border towns
Mexican smuggle gangs seem to traffick the kids, they might even be drugging the children?
https://gab.com/WesternChauvinist1/post … 2481677775

Muslim refugee migrant in NZ carried out a terrorist attack and stabbed 6 people?
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2021/09/new- … y-obtained

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-09-09 06:50:49)

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#65 2021-11-12 13:36:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 1,043

Re: A Small Report From Europe - It's about immigration

Seems Merkel hangs around each year after year while still losing seats in elections, in a strange way Merkel an ex-Communist East European but now part of a Christian Social Democratic union coalition, she and her failure is helping the right rise.

Merkel wants Putin to help solve Poland-Belarus border crisis
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/271 … der-crisis


Poland backs sanctions on airlines transporting migrants to Belarus
https://news.yahoo.com/poland-backs-san … 27820.html



Turkey invites Poland to come and see it’s not sending migrants to border with Belarus

https://www.rt.com/news/539970-turkey-p … nt-crisis/

How Biden's border plans went from hopeful to chaotic
https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/ … 27c73.html

Inside Biden’s border plans: How optimism turned to chaos
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto … c-80949889

Nationalists march in Poland as migrant crisis at the border with Belarus continues

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-11/pol … -continues

Turkey Curbs Flights to Belarus to Ease Migrant Crisis

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic … rus-border

France goes Rightwing?
....2 years of islamic terror attacks...followed by 2 years of yellow vest riot / protest Gilet Jaune movement  'class social conflicts'...followed by another 2 years of Covid confusion and Covid lockdown and now things are heating up again? but don't worry the economy is fine they say
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ … ench-hard/
Eric Zemmour has 'problem with women' says Marine Le Pen as French hard-Right battle heats up

Macron caught some British fishermen that were trespassing after Brexit to make himself look strong?

the East goes Nationalist Rightwing and now the Rest of Europe, the French Connection goes Nationalist Rightwing?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-11-12 13:53:57)

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