New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re ProjectLibre image in post #3500.

Congratulations on a successful installation into Windows!

Please investigate whether we might be able to set this up in the Azure test environment.  I'm wondering if there is a login feature to the program? I just started running it after installation, and I presume you did the same. If we wanted to run a project as NewMars members, it would be good to be able to open the project to multiple workers.  Microsoft has provided something like that for years, and I used it as a project team member, but never set one up.

In the mean time, please think about how we might be able to adapt the Forum software for a project reporting system.

***
Other topics ... we have three people engaged in thinking about the SSTO problem, but it is obvious that no one is talking to anyone else, and fantasy is lurking in the shadows, so that I can't tell what is real and what is not.

Please think about how you might manage the problem if you had three very bright people who want to achieve a shared goal, but no one talks to anyone else.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,259

Re: Housekeeping

The Dr proposal is 200mt at 10 mt to orbit

https://www.spaceline.org/cape-canavera … act-sheet/

total mass at launch     549,054 kg / 1,207,920 lb with PAYLOAD TO LEO    22,800 kg / 50,265 lb

if shuttle to orbit was 10 minutes and from what I have seen the falcons first stage fires 150 sec with the second stage at 354 then thats almost 600 seconds of engine firing that is required at a given isp fully loaded to get to orbit.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re SSTO ...

I decided to see where the definition of SSTO came from, and while I did not find an origin, I did find evidence that it has been accepted for some time that a true SSTO would not accept assistance from boosters or other devices to help it reach orbit.

Based upon this consensus, I'll have to concede the point.  It's not worth further effort.

Besides, it appears that a true SSTO may be possible, if a design team can create a vehicle that has inert mass of 25 tons and propellant of 200 tons at lift off.

All we need (apparently) is some magic materials and "poof!" we have a true SSTO.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

Please create this new forum when you get a free minute or two.

For SpaceNut ....

You have the power to create a new forum within the new Infrastructure category.

I'd like to offer you the opportunity to open a new forum: FR-TSTO Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit

I asked ChatGPT4o to address the dilemma we are facing, in trying to envision and talk about a technology that only exists today in the form of the X-37b space plane, and it's Chinese counterpart. ChatGPT4o thought about the question, consulted it's training data and came up with a new term which you have the opportunity to introduce to the world, through our forum.

Introducing a New Term: Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit (FR-TSTO)

Introduction
As advancements in space exploration continue, the need for precise terminology becomes increasingly important. With the advent of fully reusable launch systems, it's time to introduce a term that accurately describes these innovative spacecraft.

Proposed Term: Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit (FR-TSTO)

Definition
FR-TSTO stands for Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit. This term describes a spacecraft system that:

• Uses two stages to reach orbit.

• Is fully reusable, with both stages designed to return safely to Earth for subsequent missions.

Examples of F R-T S T O Systems
1. SpaceX Starship and Superheavy
   

• Starship: The upper stage that reaches orbit and returns, landing vertically using retropropulsion.

• Superheavy: The first stage booster that returns to Earth and lands using retropropulsion.

2. Dream Chaser (with a reusable first stage)

3. Military Orbital Vehicles
   

• The US and Chinese military are developing spaceplanes that reach orbit and glide back to land.

• If launched on reusable boosters, they fit the FR-TSTO model.

Benefits of the Term

• Clarity: Clearly distinguishes from Single Stage to Orbit (SSTO) and traditional Two Stage to Orbit (TSTO) systems.

• Specificity: Emphasizes full reusability and the operational concept involving two stages.

• Innovation Acknowledgment: Recognizes the technological advancements enabling fully reusable systems.

Conclusion
The term Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit (FR-TSTO) provides a precise and descriptive label for these advanced spacecraft systems. It reflects the direction of modern space exploration, highlighting the capability to reach orbit without discarding any components. By adopting this term, we can better describe and discuss these groundbreaking developments in space technology.

I created the new forum in the clone. This is what it looks like:

Fully Reusable Two Stage to Orbit (FR-TSTO)
Forum to Encourage Development of FR-TSTO

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,259

Re: Housekeeping

reply to libre project software it appears that a cloud account would allow for the same file to be used for multiple members to make use of in doing input to a project schedule to task timeline.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Project Libre cloud account...

Please investigate and report on costs involved.

We already know that a minimal Azure account will cost about $70 a month, so I would expect a cloud Project Libre account to be in that range or perhaps a bit less.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,259

Re: Housekeeping

https://www.projectlibre.com/product/pr … ft-project

Not seeing any cost just this

PROJECT MANAGEMENT IN
YOUR BROWSER
       ON A SIMPLE SUBSCRIPTION
TEAMS OF 3+  REQUEST A TRIAL WITH THIS FORM. IF INTERESTED IN A PREVIEW RESERVE A TIME AT THIS LINK

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... two items in this post...

Thanks for #3607 ... I'll follow up!

Second, regarding your interesting post in kdb512's topic...

The cost is not just materials as you are also talking about the sale of seats which are different than operations costs and even different to assembly or manufacturing costs of the plant that makes the parts.

Rockets costs will vary depending on fuel and oxidizer, it increases not only due to density of them but the thickness of materials to hold them as well as how tall the rocket will be with the engines that can use that fuel.
Change the fuel and engine changes how tall and mass of parts that are used to hold the fuel just as much.

In reading your short but packed text here, i realized you are pointing toward work that the forum might be able to undertake.

Kbd512 is starting an adventure in the new SSTO forum you created, and I am hoping we will see some ** very ** interesting ideas as time goes along.

At the same time, understanding the launch business is something some of our members might find worth their time.

You've hinted at a few of the considerations.

Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin are actually already in the business of flying passengers for suborbital hops, and they must have all the pieces in place to allow that to happen smoothly and legally.

Let's think about how to approach this.

I think you are showing signs of beginning to understand how the forum environment might be adapted to help our members to accomplish something, instead of just entertaining themselves.

kbd512 just gave me some feedback on how he wants the SSTO forum to run.  I'm happy to see him taking charge and shaping the new forum as he thinks best.  The Mars Society is kindly paying for disk space, and if Mr. Burk ever looks in on this forum, I hope they will be encouraged to see we are trying to move beyond 20 years of chitchat. 

RobertDyck invested two years in his Large Ship venture.  He ran out of steam right when Mars Society needed the Zoom account, and he's been quiet ever since.   The problem is not with us or the forum software. The problem is simply that as kbd512 and RobertDyck worked the problem, it became apparent that the next steps are ** really ** big steps.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

The conversion of banned members to InActive is underway...

I checked today and found that you left off with: kscvideos

Hoping you'll have time to upgrade more members in the weeks ahead.

***
I just started the potholes scan from 223001 to 224000.  It will be interesting to see if the massive changes you made had any effect.

I'm hoping we didn't lose any posts in the process.

That reminds me that I have so far failed to mention a backup to our webmaster.

It would not be out of line for you to request a backup, in view of (a) recent changes and (b) imminent upgrade from 1.5.11 to 1.5.12

Update after potholes scan from 223001 through 224000.

We only had ** two ** p0otholes after all that change that occurred in May!

The two items are 223227 and 223894.

That is impressive performance by the membership over that period.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

Morning status ... the Azure systems are running normally.

The FluxBB 1.5.12 PHP files were packaged and delivered to Dropbox for pickup by kbd512.

The files are available to you and to RobertDyck from download from the kbd512 folder at Dropbox if you would care to inspect them.

The compressed file is only 382kb.

I am interested in returning to development of the "Like" feature.  We can do that work safely in the clone, now that the clone is packaged for the update.

The status of the like feature is that a column was added to the Posts table, and a small PHP file is available to demonstrate that the new column works.

http://40.75.112.55/forums/UpdateLikes.php?id=80884

The next step is to create and install a three column table in the clone MySQL database.

Columns would include:

Primary ID, integer
Post ID, integer
Member ID, integer

One row would be created for each "like" of a particular post by a given member.

Only one "like" per post by a particular member would be allowed.

Code is needed in viewtopic.php to show current "like" totals, and to permit addition of a new "like" via button click.

(th)

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,585

Re: Housekeeping

tahanson43206,

Thanks for the heads up.  I will let you know if I run into any snags when deploying to the server.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For kbd512 re FluxBB 1.5.12 zip file...

After unzipping the file on another PC, I found two items that need your attention if you download this version...

1) There is an archive folder that should be deleted
2) The cache folder contains files that should be deleted.

I will upload a corrected version later today.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re forum activity...

It is good to see so much ** really ** interesting conversation going on!

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re spammer activity....

Every morning, in addition to looking at NewMars, I check Dr. Dartnell's web site ...

This morning, the total of spammer activity reached a new record...

Total posts 2456 • Total topics 324 • Total members 47319 • Our newest member oficehuba

The spammer bots are adding new accounts at the rate of 400 per day (on average) ... we will soon reach 50,000 with no end in sight.

Dr. Dartnell is aware of the onslaught, but so far he has chosen to take no action.

The spammer's are meticulous in their application for membership.  They provide a unique user name, a unique email address, and a birthday. The birthday behavior leads to a growing display of  birthday greetings, because there are only 365 possible birthday opportunities to exploit.  Here is today's birthday list:

BIRTHDAYS
Congratulations to: ovitoyexuxas (49), edenaka (49), aqevejug (49), josixoyu (49), uyagexaher (49), umoguqa (49), eetekajapxopu (49), icqonoument (49), axepupenakuq (49), ewiseduberd (49), uheqizana (49), ohotoceboe (49), ifuvukok (49), akudifux (49), ezeawicatoax (49), Jessiecycle (48), agiwuiqsu (48), futojitita (48), afajupupuqo (48), nfekamotug (48), avacaev (48), esolejaj (48), ujafacipe (48), itopusihneciz (48), uzanenofo (48), egiiojiemudi (48), oqkiasosej (48), iuqeqile (48), ve3ranLayed (48), ohukuzas (47), ucovizupaketo (47), enurenuc (47), eunojudum (47), ovodxozunosa (47), ezutigu (47), isuoqonuvuvit (47), akezamewah (47), uwutubagop (47), iexogquvoluz (47), eulafipica (47), ojaturasiqhni (47), uxitoeauqotat (47), ueedefuxaafe (47), izolerotakubu (47), ibecahwlab (47), udajizi (47), ehazlug (47), uwajoipifmoxk (47), ifuqiga (46), Georgehoids (46), iaulusu (46), usuxuhohib (46), ofuxepese (46), enofhotigig (46), ahaxebuzaunan (46), inuyuopqisema (46), esihotu (46), eyacinirug (46), avonujizaxey (46), utaretuku (46), ebiraomopoxo (46), utuvoxo (45), ogiyenulufzej (45), ezocuman (45), fubebokidu (45), odiobihiesidu (45), omsuburm (45), eweiluc (45), atobdelucibi (45), eriefuvu (45), hazotkti (45), ecudvisidaqas (45), ojudiwotibiq (45), euhibelejuzu (44), uyipudu (44), opwoyuremguv (44), arunnocakte (44), ariwobqsib (44), tadalafil (44), opeaohjikide (44), utauvumegik (44), tadalafil india (44), uyasijjoaxere (44), icmahixux (44), odiqiriwuix (44), ocuvuudame (43), alocaiewon (43), ezujonojoquq (43), mutasin (43), axudolut (43), etesohazovza (43), aqomogexmuvo (43), afixuzahuso (43), etocayifis (43), oxbeyig (43), iyedepufu (43), ufapudex (43), aqosuvatuzu (43), azunojiu (43), akxitavaxugad (42), eayivid (42), adapkuvimozj (42), iauoxewih (42), ewexdatiwy (42), iaujibez (42), uyefecosezab (42), ogihumom (42), idekimeketa (42), odudodoru (42), otiwoyopoti (42), uducahuy (41), arevumakaw (41), tutodeh (41), ufatawowegeso (41), aucofrauw (41), uivewiicilebu (41), iggomezheki (41), ehubarofuqamo (41), ifazocic (41), olunicon (41), oaemepimecuvu (40), ofilewuw (40), ijudujim (40), ohaamubeux (40), ugpipewuquhox (40), egorukeuf (40), ayuefahozi (40), awayumolaci (40), eyiyadan (40), taveletam (40), ahaigidukodet (40), afyauxomumu (40), aditibemulud (40), pimpuhjan (39), cozetoyoji (39), iexefava (39), cuweyehi (39), dohyegqdosi (39), oliponajiju (39), ewawieluro (39), udaadantor (39), arxurohu (39), eyuxade (39), aiihabujan (39), eekarudu (39), acogoporezufu (39), ohonawazofi (39), ezmajio (39), aiyavosodexes (38), qewiyemuti (38), ebifuzap (38), anoqene (38), Georgetuh (38), emaqinsona (38), awunekuza (38), eryecumiv (38), ekagaje (38), upulanuzefroj (38), abaicayekuyq (38), slaifas (38), aletufrateo (38), ebatodasem (38), avisivijira (38), ebehopoc (38), etukilmupe (37), aixexeyaidaqo (37), iratasevuqifa (37), azexifada (37), mericitc (37), ufewupaxu (37), Zopalemig (37), evaahjoxuq (37), oxivocuzl (37), ezukezetenabs (37), ukipkobe (36), ejetubacdi (36), omuudenen (36), tadalafil 5 mg (36), buy tadalafil usa (36), tadalafil 40 mg uk (36), oconougatvuxi (36), ubvanusuca (36), abipkok (36), asagoquk (36), eqonelejuq (36), eluzizuti (36), iteyulu (36), smith2687 (33), david4687 (33)

Your decision to cut off the spammers has prevented this kind of activity.  However, when you look at the "guest" count, you can see how many individual bots are knocking on the door.  Not ** one ** of those "guests" is a real person (on average). 

A real person may occasionally check NewMars without logging in, but the vast majority are bots.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re forum decorum....

It may be time to dust off your policy document for this forum.

I am here to protect a NewMars member's ability to manage a topic they create.

If a member asks for a post to be moved when it does not match the desired objectives of a particular topic, the Moderators are able to accommodate that request. 

A NewMars member who posts in a topic created by another member is a guest in that topic.

I am hoping you will confirm that the creator of a topic has the right to ask for support from the Moderators.

The active membership of this forum is a very low number.

Each member is judged by every other member based upon the quality and appropriate nature of each post.

At your convenience, please remind us of your policy regarding the placing of posts in topics created by NewMars members.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,259

Re: Housekeeping

Money for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitive_Machines_Nova-C was designed by Intuitive Machines (IM) to deliver small payloads to the surface of the Moon. Withe the seed money coming from Nasa to deliver to the moon but under contract it did do that. With no money coming from outside of the US from what I can tell.

Using the opinion words from some twitter content might not be the best choice and then change or conflating to another failed craft not related also makes for off topic content. Comparing cost to another off topic would also be outside of the scope of the topic.

As an Admin part of my role is to direct Net Etiquette or NewMars forum Rules such as they are from its beginning. Now I am being off topic to give the reminder. I am sure there are more such moderation of content rules and that is why we have as many Admin's and mod's as we do.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

Thanks for the links to the 2007 paper on study of low temperature conversion devices.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re enhancement of the forum software....

We are on a path that I am hoping leads to installation of the updated FluxBB software, version 1.5.12.

If all goes well, the numerous details about how to actually accomplish that transition will be worked out.  This is not going to happen quickly.  There are risks involved, and each must be accounted for.  It is possible that a coordinated set of changes must be planned and executed in a sequence.

We are currently in the study phase.

***
After the upgrade is complete, we can turn our attention to developing new features that our members will (hopefully) appreciate.

First is the relatively simple addition of the "like" feature. We can develop and test that feature in the Clone, and then implement it in NewMars Prime when everyone is satisfied that the new feature is working correctly.

A major benefit that I see in this new feature, is the opportunity it would provide for NewMars members to provide feedback to our authors.  The NewMars forum can be understood as an Internet Publishing facility, where individuals (I'm thinking of Void as a notable example) are free to create word pictures, and even ** real ** pictures) to explore interesting and often innovative concepts.

At present, there is no way for our members to provide feedback to encourage Void, other than to create a post which has no function other than to provide encouragement.  The availability of the "Like" feature would permit members to provide encouragement at a much lower cost, and thus ** should ** lead to more feedback to individual authors.

The cost of this new feature to the Mars Society is NOT zero... Each Like will be supported by a record in a new table, but that record will be on the order of 16 bytes long, so there will be some disk space consumed, and some machine cycles will be expended servicing the new feature. 

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re automotive problem analysis and repair....

We don't have a perfect match for the occasional automotive problems that our members report.

I'm wondering if a topic devoted to automotive problems might be of interest to members?

GW Johnson wrote via email about a perplexing heat related problem he is having with his truck.

The ignition stops working when the truck gets hot.  You may have noticed that Texas is seeing a lot of heat these days.

GW's tentative diagnosis is that an electronic module is failing.

His training does not include electronics modules, so he's at a definite disadvantage.

In the olden days, spark was produced by a mechanical device.  There was no electronics involved, except that electrons were routed to spark plugs at the correct time to ignite a fuel/oxygen mixture.

Update a bit later ... we have only one topic that contains the word "repair"... That topic was created by Mars_B4_Moon. It poses an interesting question for NewMars members to consider.

However, it doesn't seem to be good fit for reporting on and discussing repair of an automobile, or any other complex piece of equipment.

SpaceNut ... you have in the past reported on automobile repairs you have undertaken, but my recollection is that those reports have appeared in Housekeeping or similar generic topics.

I'll have to go look at the new Categories you've created for us... perhaps one of them might be suitable for a topic dedicated to a particular problem to be solved, such as GW's failing truck ignition.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re new post about solar powered charging station ...

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 07#p224507

Nice find!

Those units look good for rural living.  The US is now mostly electrified, but there are still plenty of off-grid locations where power like this would be welcome.

I like the adaptive features, such as folding up to avoid damage due to heavy winds.

Clearly as ** lot ** of thought and patient engineering has gone into development of these stations!

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re status of various items...

Azure is non-responsive this morning... the OS update failed again on Wednesday
Yesterday the services were working but they are not today. I've initiated a restart.

I am having unusual communications issues with the Chromebook I use for NewMarsMember email.

The connection is dropping out.  I don't see an obvious cause. Everything else is working normally.

I'd appreciate your confirming if you received a reminder I sent out about the offer to meet Mr. Burk at our regular Sunday meeting on the 23rd.

Google gave me an Oops! (which I've not seen before). I'm sure it was caused by the local wireless connection issues.

I made several attempts to send a reminder, and still don't know if any of them went out.

OK! Azure is back up. The stop took 11 minutes this time, and the start was fast.

Update: I had to perform Stop/Start twice before the sites came back up.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re upcoming Google Meeting....

As a reminder, Mr. James Burk will be attending tomorrow's meeting, if all goes well and his schedule permits.

The meeting is open to listeners using cell phones, as Oldfart1939 has shown (if I remember correctly).

If you are able to allocate the time to attend, via cell phone, you can enter comments into the NewMars forum in the Google Meeting topic. I'll be monitoring that topic and will be able to read your comment or question to the meeting.

This meeting has the potential to set a course for the NewMars forum for years to come.

If the opportunity presents itself, after the main business of the meeting is completed to kbd512's satisfaction, I intend to offer GW Johnson an opportunity to describe his Orbital Mechanics course to Mr. Burk. I am hoping the course might be included as an official offering of the new Mars Technology Institute.

There may be other business relating to the future of the forum, and your presence via cell phone in listen mode would be helpful in case that happens.

You have encouraged and supported a number of attempts to transform the forum from a discussion place to a combination of discussion and projects intended to produce real Universe results.

NewMars forum is well equipped to support significant knowledge capture and delivery, by partnering with Dropbox and imgur.com.

Your new Categories have the potential to support ventures by existing members, and new ones we hope to recruit.

Our recruiting efforts to date have been interesting and perhaps even enlightening, but I think we have upside potential in that space.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re information about making solid rocket motors for the SpinLauch venture.

GW Johnson sent me three files about his experience designing solid rocket motors for national defense, and specifically ones intended for a high G environment.

I am temporarily (I hope) unable to process those files so they would be available to NewMars members such as yourself.

GW seems to be trying to provide information about his work, and I apologize for the delay in delivery of the material.

You have expressed doubt that solid rocket fuel flows like water under high G force, and I can understand that because you have lived in  a 1 G environment, and have direct knowledge of that environment.

GW Johnson has given your insight about the fuel flowing out the nozzle a ringing endorsement, and I was ** really ** happy to see that!

The issue to be addressed appears to be how to design a solid rocket motor that has a nozzle that is NOT at the center of the cylinder.

It is my guess GW Johnson, nor anyone else on Earth, has ** ever ** tested a solid rocket motor with the nozzle off axis.

With your Internet search skills, please see if you can find ** any ** evidence that ** anyone ** has investigated this problem.

The way would appear to be open for GW Johnson (and perhaps indirectly the Mars Society) to develop an off-axis nozzle design.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re addition to SpinLaunch topic ...

Thanks for bringing over the images and text from earlier work on the payload delivery procedure.

The high ellipse method does not seem possible for the SpinLaunch system, at this point.  It would be challenging for the gas gun method, at it's present state of development.

Major advances would be needed in both systems to permit the use of the high ellipse concept.  However, if it ** can ** be achieved, then it provides a way for mission planners to manage flights with greater control and much longer windows.  The payloads in high ellipse will remain in orbit until a suitable delivery window can be arranged, while the low ellipse method will have one and only one chance to reach the fuel depot.  Failure in that case will result in loss of the payload.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 17,980

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re NewMarsMember account ... I am behind on updating the Recruiting topic, and will be for some time. Mr. Burk extended an invitation to GW Johnson to join the Mars Society Member forum.  I had an account but don't remember the login, so created a new one, but it will be a while before the admissions committee grants admission.

I had written Mr. Burk about GW's course on Basic Orbital Mechanics, and Mr. Burk replied that  he thought there might be a place in the Mars Society structure for his class.

If you still have access to the Mars Society forum, please see if it still works!

(th)