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#3301 2024-02-11 14:44:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut .. thanks for picking up on my question about adding a forum to the Index level.

What did James mean about the "main page"?

That's the first question.

Second, how many years have gone by since that conversation?

Are things stable enough so we can add a line to the forums table?

Do we need to ask for a Google Meeting with Mr. Burk?

Or can we assume that kbd512 is now the Webmaster, and that kbd512 can make decisions for us?

(th)

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#3302 2024-02-11 18:25:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

I was promoted to moderator back 2015 after the last crash when the request was made.

That led to an upgrade in June of 2017 to admin. We did end with a couple that got permanent ban for racial directed content.

It stayed quite up through 2019 when finally, traffic for the site meant adding more moderators and finally making them admins.

At which the website clean ups were started, and we are in a state of continued used of the site that is quite steady.

If the web master is in charge of the forums index page which is the main page and not the home page which is done in word press.

That change to make KBD512 needs to be discussed with James as Admins can do this as its going to need a full back up before and after the changes with no posts during that period of realignment.

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#3303 2024-02-11 21:30:26

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3302

Thanks for the review of the history of the forum, and your progress from member through Moderator to Senior Admin.

What I'm asking is to have one row added to the forums table.  This is no different from adding a post to the Posts table, or a new user to the users table.

Are you sure you want to bother the Executive Director of the Mars Society with something so trivial?

Why is a full back up needed?

We add new posts to the posts table at the rate of 20-45 per day.

We don't do a backup to the database every time we post to the posts table.

What's special about the forums table?

(th)

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#3304 2024-02-12 19:27:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

It's about table relationships which start with the non-linked ids that are used for the groupings which is 8.

Each grouping has the table folder ids for subject area forum of which there are 36 ids used.

Then we get the table of topic name ids with respect to the initial name of the creator.

It is easy to get a table out of alignment causing post and other tables to not display correctly.

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#3305 2024-02-12 19:58:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3304

Now we're getting somewhere!

Thanks for the explanation!  Since I have the database installed on my development system, I can see all the tables and every record in each table.

However, kbd512 has not yet had time to update the FluxBB package so it will run on my system.

Therefore, I have no way of knowing that there is not (apparently) a program/script written to enable the Webmaster to set up the Index level properly. It comes across to me from your explanation, that you received some introduction to the situation from Mr. Burk. 

Next Sunday, if kbd512 is able to join the Google Meeting, and if he has time, and if he is willing to take up the subject, I'll ask if there is any way the other Admins could help him complete the update.  I understand there are a significant number of places in the existing forum software that are incompatible with the modern (up to date) support packages.  In our last conversation on this subject, kbd512 gave me the impression he thought he is the right person to complete the modifications, since he knows what to do.  It's just a question of time that might be available.  He has a demanding job and a family and no doubt other responsibilities as well.

(th)

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#3306 2024-02-12 20:44:58

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3304

As a follow up ... if the existing system does not have a script designed to properly set up and edit the forums table, then we can most certainly write one, once kbd512 finishes updates to the existing software.

(th)

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#3307 2024-02-13 07:38:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

On the index plus all forum pages click on Administration at the top bar and it will bring you to the moderator/ admin menu's .
The changes to forum options, categories and more can be changed. I am not sure if your system is mirroring what happens on this forum or that your system is a standalone clone.

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#3308 2024-02-13 08:05:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut .... thanks for the tip in Post #3307

As a Moderator, I can see the options, but they are only available to the Admins (you and kbd512)

If you can add new rows to the forums table, then we could discuss what those new rows might be, and you or kbd512 could add them.
I would like to see Index level options for "Industries" and "Education"

What  I'd like to see for "Industries" is the opportunity to build on My Hacienda by creating collections of tips, facts and news about specific industries that are needed to support a first tier community on Mars.

What I'd like to see for "Education" is information a teacher responsible for bringing up the next generation on Mars would need. Much of that information is needed right now on Earth, so the index level could fill up with with actual lesson plans created for the grade levels we have on Earth today.

Here is what I see when I look at the Admin page you suggested:

Apache Internal Server Error objected when I tried to post what I see on the Admin page.

Moderator menu
Index
Users
Bans
Reports
Forum administration
Welcome to the FluxBB administration control panel.
From here you can control vital aspects of the board. Depending on whether you are an administrator or a moderator you can:

All the higher level features are grayed out for a Moderator

(th)

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#3309 2024-02-13 08:10:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

SpaceNut .... without making any changes, please see if you have the power to edit the forums table.

You should be able to open the Forums table and call up individual items for editing.

Again, this would be done without making any changes.  What I am trying to find out is whether you and kbd512 do indeed have the ability to add a new forum.

If you ** do ** have that power, then it would be a reasonable next step to invite current active members to offer their opinions on the proposed new forums.

It has  been many years since anything has changed at the Index level.  We can go a while longer without making changes.

As a reminder, I DO NOT have a copy of the forum software, because kbd512 has not yet had time to perform the many edits that are needed to allow the forum software to run on modern support software.

(th)

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#3310 2024-02-13 08:17:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ....

Here is what I see when I look at the Index page ...

New Mars << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Meta New Mars
Have your say about this website and forums. All opinions welcome!
(Moderated by James Burk, Josh Cryer, kbd512, RobertDyck, tahanson43206)

304    9,378    Today 10:10:48
by tahanson43206

Mars Society <<== Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Mars Society International
General discussion of Mars Society activities and events
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

91    1,039    2023-12-30 10:53:22
by tahanson43206

Mars Analogue Research Stations
Current and future activities of the F-MARS and MDRS, as well as other planned research stations
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

51    654    Yesterday 10:22:47
by Mars_B4_Moon

Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge
Discussion on the various Mars Rover projects being pursued by the Mars Society
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

18    210    2022-09-23 13:02:33
by Mars_B4_Moon

Mars Gravity Biosatellite
An artificial gravity project to simulate the effects of Martian gravity on animals, initially the Translife project
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

10    113    2023-12-14 09:45:59
by tahanson43206

Youth Group / Educational Outreach
Discussion of what the future colonists of Mars can do to help the Mars Society now and educational outreach through projects like GenMars
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

50    193    2021-09-17 20:00:12
by SpaceNut

Acheron Labs << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Human missions [ New posts ]
Cost, logistics, funding, technology and timeframe for manned missions to Mars
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

1,432    49,691    Today 10:03:39
by SpaceNut

Interplanetary transportation
Present and future methods of spaceship propulsion, e.g. fission, fusion, solar sail
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

799    25,112    Yesterday 07:57:40
by Mars_B4_Moon

Planetary transportation
Transportation within Mars; rovers, Mars suits, dirigibles, gliders and more
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

178    5,236    Yesterday 20:05:14
by SpaceNut

Unmanned probes
Mars Global Surveyor, ESA Mars Express and future probes
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

403    10,824    2024-02-11 08:29:20
by Mars_B4_Moon

Life support systems
The problems of producing food, air and water on Mars
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

396    9,765    Yesterday 21:04:46
by SpaceNut

Life on Mars
Discussion of evidence for past and present life on Mars as well as methods of detection. No "image artifact" discussion.
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

200    2,066    2024-01-26 19:31:32
by SpaceNut

Water on Mars
Was water present on the surface on Mars in the past, and in what quantities? Where is the water on Mars now?
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

124    1,446    2024-02-02 13:07:21
by Void

Terraformation
How, when and why (or why not) we should terraform Mars
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

471    11,833    Yesterday 16:40:58
by Void

Pictures of Mars
Paintings, images, photos, videos, animations, movies of all things Mars. No "image artifact" discussion.
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

79    2,376    Today 06:05:08
by jorgear

Dorsa Brevia << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Martian Politics and Economy
How should Mars be governed? Should there be a planetary government with constitution? What sort of economic systems should be used?
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

225    9,392    Today 09:05:53
by tahanson43206

Civilization and Culture
Discussion on the social, cultural and anthropological aspects of human missions and colonies on Mars
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

208    4,258    Yesterday 08:00:51
by Mars_B4_Moon

The First Hundred << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Martian Chronicles
A forum for creative ideas (such as short stories and poetry).
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

68    417    2023-09-18 13:17:26
by Mars_B4_Moon

Liberum Olympia
Wiki collaboration forum. This is where wiki users can talk about adding new content and changing things around.
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

16    129    2021-01-03 00:02:03
by tahanson43206

Underhill << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

Not So Free Chat
Off-topic discussion of mostly anything and everything, except politics
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

1,486    41,302    Yesterday 20:38:43
by SpaceNut

Science, Technology, and Astronomy [ New posts ]
It doesn't have to be about Mars!
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

1,406    23,590    Today 09:53:11
by SpaceNut

Space Policy
Light political discussion relevant to Mars exploration and space; outreach to politicians in the US and worldwide. Refrain from general politics.
(Moderated by kbd512, RobertDyck, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

113    3,017    Yesterday 08:03:48
by Mars_B4_Moon

Other space advocacy organizations
The Planetary Society, National Space Society, SEDS and others
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

64    696    2024-02-10 20:33:27
by tahanson43206

Archive << Group

Forum    Topics    Posts    Last post

First Words
Planning the New Mars event for World Space Week (October 4-10th)
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

18    127    2005-07-22 19:53:37
by srmeaney

Intelligent Alien Life
*All* posts pertaining to this topic should be made in this forum
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

111    1,717    2018-06-19 20:53:23
by Cozmos

New Mars Articles
Comment on New Mars articles
(Moderated by kbd512, SpaceNut, tahanson43206)

51    439    2023-09-16 14:01:34
by tahanson43206

Mark all topics as read
Total number of registered users: 19,630
Total number of topics: 8,372
Total number of posts: 215,020
Newest registered user: GStanley2023
Registered users online: 1
Guests online: 23
Online: tahanson43206
Jump to

Meta New Mars

(th)

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#3311 2024-02-13 08:51:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

This is for SpaceNut primarily... it may be of interest to a few members...

Whoever set up the forum originally had a classical education and a spirit of whimsy...

Acheron is a Latin word whose original meaning was "River of Sorrows" .... What that has to do with Mars is to be determined

Dictionary.com says the term is for the river in Hades that Charon crossed with boat loads of souls

Dorsa Brevia ... a geological feature (apparently) .... Google came up with KimStanleyRobinson.info as a reference

The First Hundred could be days or years .... I'm assuming sols

Underhill ... Wikipedia ... a road passing along the foot of a hill

The first webmaster was a Brit (if memory serves)

Archive --- a common word in English in 2024 --- I asked Google for the etymology of the word, and was surprised that it is associated with an arch

The Greek usage appears to have been related to "public records"

The oldest example of a fully functional archive that Google found was one in the city of Elba (in modern Syria) dated to between 3500 and 2200 BCE.

***
What I'm trying to figure out is where new topics of "Industries" and "Education" would fit.

My guess is that the best fit would be Acheron Labs, despite the dismal association with Hades.

Using existing forums in Acheron Labs as models...

Industries
Industries needed to create and maintain a first tier civilization on Mars

Education
Objectivies for Education of Citizens of Mars, Lesson Plans, Wisdom, Guidelines

Both would be moderated by the four existing Admins.

(th)

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#3312 2024-02-13 13:12:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

post #3310 Today 09:17:15 is the current view via the web display function.

under the Administration
After selecting forums you get to change parts of what you see

sample follows

Add forum

Create a new forum

Add forum to category

New Mars

Select the category to which you wish to add a new forum.

Edit forums

Category: New Mars
Action    Position    Forum
Edit | Delete    10    Meta New Mars

Category: Mars Society
Action    Position    Forum
Edit | Delete    1      Mars Society International
Edit | Delete    2      Mars Analogue Research Stations
Edit | Delete    3      Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge
Edit | Delete    4      Mars Gravity Biosatellite
Edit | Delete    5      Youth Group / Educational Outreach

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#3313 2024-02-13 13:28:44

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #3312

Thank you for this very helpful guide to what you and kbd512 see as Admins!

Please do the same thing for Acheron Labs...

I think that category is the best location for two new Forums: Industry and Education

Our members have had 20 years+ time to think of any additional forums that would help us to assist the Mars Society.

If you decide to create the new forums, I will attempt to invite people to add posts.

We have spent 20+ years in conversation about human prospects for space flight, and in that time our members have added a great number of links to reports of actual achievements.

The forum has an opportunity to help individuals to organize activity that will lead to actual achievement.

The people who are going to land on and develop Mars are alive today.  This forum is as good a place as any for those individuals to meet and coordinate their education and subsequent business or government activity to accelerate the pace of progress.

(th)

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#3314 2024-02-16 08:53:18

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Unlimited Supply of Thermal Energy from  beneath your land...

Some time ago you told us about a supply of water that is available beneath your land.  You have attempted to harvest that water for household use, but it is so burdened with minerals that you have reported having given up on using it. 

That water is a potential source of thermal energy.  Please see if you can measure the temperature of that water at the bottom of the well. You will need an electronic device to take the reading.

The value you discover should be constant for the next 100 years, or past when you need it, whichever comes first.

(th)

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#3315 2024-02-16 17:16:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

The cold is a thermal sink at this point or source depending on the other half of the battery's potential.

Think about a battery to get energy from it we have a minus or negative end and on the other is the positive or plus terminal to get the energy back out of the difference which for a dry cell or alkaline is just 1.5 volts and depending on the size we get several amp/hrs. of current that we can draw from it.

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#3316 2024-02-17 21:17:50

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Proposed new forums ...

In our correspondence so far, you have indicated you understand how to add the new forums, but it appears you are reluctant to add them, or to change anything without testing. I hope to be able to talk to kbd512 tomorrow. Please indicate if you would like kbd512 to set up a test system on my machine, so I can test the new forums and show the results to you.  kbd512 already has a test version of the forum on his machine, but the software is not currently working as I have explained to you on several previous occasions.

Alternatively, you can use your Admin tools to make a very minor change to one of the existing forums.

For example, you could change "planetary transportation" to "Planetary Transportation on Mars"

That change won't hurt anything, and it would give you confidence you can make such a minor change without breaking anything.

(th)

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#3317 2024-02-18 10:12:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

An Index level options for "Industries" and "Education" placement since they can be pollical in nature, should fall in the Underhill
Forum.

Items like business creation topics should be moved there as well.

I should also create a means for the wiki and companion to go as well and move those as well.

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#3318 2024-02-18 12:48:49

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Post #3317

Please explain why either Industries or Education are of a political nature?

Education is what is needed for a civilization to survive.  The fact that some individuals want to impose their own views on kids is beside the point. The actual facts of what has happened, and how the Universe works, should ** not ** be subject to someones's personal preference.

Industries are categories like steel making, automobile making and so on. What is political about those?

(th)

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#3319 2024-02-18 15:58:28

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,827
Website

Re: Housekeeping

Given the talk in the Sci and Tech forum, perhaps splitting sci and tech into two forums is warranted? Or perhaps having an infrastructure forum... talking about the provision of heat or other energy on Earth doesn't quite fit life support.

I am still interested in settling space and terraforming. It's just that infrastructure and ecology are my big passion; the settlement of space and terraforming comes out of that. And most of what we've been talking about re. infrastructure applies to space settlement, a rather neglected part of settlement at that. Lots of focus on rockets, little focus on ecology. Perhaps the space cowboys think ecologists have cooties. But unless they want their habitats to be entirely male humans and no other life forms they're going to have to broaden their focus.


Use what is abundant and build to last

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#3321 2024-02-19 18:56:30

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re dead link ...

Here is a working replacement for a dead link in one of your posts:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/inside-wh … -thriving/

The post with the dead link is this one.
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 34#p177334

(th)

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#3322 2024-02-19 19:48:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

Links go dead all the time, but it's been replaced.

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#3323 2024-02-19 20:37:27

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... thanks for taking care of the dead link...

The moderators can fix dead links for regular members.

That brings up an opportunity for us to remind our members that if you ** do ** run across a dead link, please let us know.

You can use the Housekeeping topic to report the problem.

(th)

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#3324 2024-02-19 20:58:35

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,215

Re: Housekeeping

There will be many an image as well not displaying as well since saving them cost server space requires that mars society did not have in the past..

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#3325 2024-02-20 08:32:36

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,907

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut new forum Index table ...

We have now received feedback from Terraformer and Calliban about the idea of adding new forums or revising older ones.

Please do not suddenly decide to do something yourself.

Any changes of this magnitude call for consensus of the four Admins, plus input from members who decide to participate.

To all.... please put any suggestions for possible changes to the Index structure into the Housekeeping topic. I have already lost track  of Calliban's comment.  It was included in a post in another topic.... I'll try to find it.

Here is Calliban's suggestion:

Calliban wrote:

I would like to attend these virtual meetups, but the time difference makes it awkward.

I would second what Terraformer has said.  A specific 'Mars Infrastructure' board might be useful in encouraging development in this topic area.  Right now, a disproportionate number of topics get raised in the Science and Technology section.  The problem with this concentration is that valuable threads get pushed to the back pages and often don't get chance to develop before people lose sight of them.  Having more topic areas wouldn't solve this problem, but would mitigate it.

I  have proposed:

Industries
Education

To these suggestions, which have NO political association whatsoever, I was surprised to receive feedback that someone thinks these are political in nature.  Neither is political in and of themselves.  It is unfortunate that they become targets of people with political agendas.

Calliban suggested:

Mars Infrastructure

Terraformer suggested splitting Science and Technology ....

For historical reasons, it seems to me easier to set up a new forum than to change an existing one.

Terraformer ... please add a post to this topic to add to our clarify your suggestion(s).

(th)

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