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#2851 2023-03-24 15:15:56

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Apache Internal error ...

I just got the error again, and recorded the time ... it is accurate to the minute, so your search of the error log should reach the location of the error with less extraneous log data.

tahanson43206 wrote:

Today's transcript will show a discussion with ChatGPT that results in discovery that LibreOffice Draw can write images in SVG format. SVG format is shown to be a text format that ChatGPT can take in to "understand" what a student is seeing on a printed document.

In the most recent attempt, the Apache Internal error prevented posting of the transcript.

Here goes a try today...

Time of failure: 17:11 my time >> UTC 21:11

(th)

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#2852 2023-03-24 19:07:21

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... the last 1000 posts (most by Mars_B4_Moon) are pothole free!

Report:
Update for Web Automation Report for 03-24-2023 at 08:42:20
  WebBrowserAutomation
Version 2022.10.27.1

Completed Sequence for ID: 208000


Total Command Lines found: 34
Total input Lines in script: 206

  Number of ID's processed: 1000

Starting Number: 207001

Last Number of Run: 208000

Summary for Web Automation Report for 03-24-2023 at 20:59:19
Average time of Loop from Main form: 00:00:29

Total time of Processing: 12:15:35

Total time Program was Active: 12:17:14

Extract Report for 03-24-2023 at 21:01:11
  Generic Extract Lines Utility
Version 2022.8.18.1

Input File is Open as C:\DataDell\WebBrowserAutomation\WebRunlog_03-24-2023_08-42-20_31340.txt

Search String One is: bad request. the link you followed
Search String Two is: completed sequence for
Search String Three is:
Search String Four is: skipping to next


Total Input Lines 56,651
Total Output Lines 18
  Lines containing String One
  Lines containing String Two 1,000
Lines containing String Three
Lines containing String Four

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#2853 2023-03-25 14:15:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Apache Server error

I just got the error on a small post at 16:12 local time.

That would have been 20:12 UTC.

The post was attempted in the Email Outreach topic.

The post succeeded after I removed one line of text.

(th)

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#2854 2023-03-26 12:50:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

jut got the error when posting an edit to a topic and it did even with preview of that same update.
But second later this post went in just fine and so did this update.

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#2855 2023-03-26 14:44:43

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #2854

Thank you for confirming you just got the Apache error!  I hope your request for access to the error logs will soon be granted!

For all ... please be sure to record and post the exact time when the error occurs, so SpaceNut can find it in the error log. Apache logs are loaded with thousands of lines of useless data, so having the exact time will be most helpful.

I am about to try to post a transcript of a break-through session with ChatGPT... I would like very much for the entire session to survive post.

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#2856 2023-03-28 06:45:53

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut:

The Apache Server error blocked the intended post at 8:36 local time 12:36 UTC

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#2857 2023-03-28 18:22:20

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... I just got the Apache error at 20:19 local time ... that would be 00:19 UTC.

I hope the error logs access is coming your way!

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#2858 2023-03-29 18:30:50

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

This is just for the record .... the login form gave a MySQL error at 19:37 my time, 23:37 UTC.

The system came up normally at 20:27 my time, 00:27 UTC.

It is possible maintenance was underway at the NewMars server.

(th)

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#2859 2023-03-29 18:54:09

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

Well, I just now checked back after getting this

An error was encountered
Error: Unable to connect to MySQL and select database. MySQL reported: Connection refused.

At 7:10 pm est time and its now 8:53pm while making this note.

I am a bit under the weather tonight, so I am signing off..

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#2860 2023-03-29 20:12:22

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #2859

thanks for the update after the system  came back up.

***
Get well (feeling better) soon!  We (and your country) need you feeling at your best!

(th)

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#2861 2023-03-30 05:57:14

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut regarding possible development of Dr. Johnson's work in education field ....

As has been reported in the GW Johnson Postings topic, Dr. Johnson has been adapting a college level course on Basic Orbital Mechanics for a high school audience.  The first three lessons and the spreadsheet for exercises are published in the topic.  We are using Dropbox to hold the course materials. Students are free to call up the lesson materials from Dropbox, using the links published by NewMars.com/Forums, which is an affiliate of the Mars Society.

Dr. Johnson has been hard at work, extending the class, and later today, I'll be setting up links to additional course materials.

Meanwhile, I've been experimenting with ChatGPT to see if ChatGPT might be able to function as a Teaching Assistant to help pull students through difficult material.  The key success, reported in the ChatGPT topic, was confirmation that ChatGPT can "see" an image created by GW Johnson.  The actual "language" used by ChatGPT to "see" the image is called SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics).

SVG Files: What They Are and How to Make One - HubSpot Blog
blog.hubspot.com › website › what-is-an-svg-file
Dec 22, 2022 · An SVG file, short for scalable vector graphic file, is a standard graphics file type used for rendering two-dimensional images on the internet.

Dr. Johnson has requested that students "internalize" the course material from each lesson before proceeding to the next lesson.

Traditional courses are designed to test the student's learning at the end of the process, or with little pop quizzes along the way.

The problem I see with traditional course structure is that often students do not know how to learn.   I am reminded of a statement by kbd512, long ago in the NewMars archive.  kbd512 was talking about PhD level folks in the Real Universe.  As I recall the remark kbd512 made at the time, he said that PhD level folks have learned how to learn.

I see potential in the performance of ChatGPT to help students "learn how to learn" sooner than they might with a traditional course structure.

The work of GW Johnson appears (to me at least) to be a fully developed traditional course, and the only question remaining is what level of student would find the material most helpful.

Dr. Johnson has made clear (to me for sure) that the course is a BASIC foundation in the complex field of Orbital Mechanics.  A student completing the course material would have a foundation for learning how to use the (or perhaps even write) the computational tools that are needed to deal with the complications of the 3 body problem in 3 dimensions.  I suspect the number of dimensions involved should be given as 4, because everything takes place in a flow of time.

Unless corrected by someone wiser (and there are certainly plenty of candidates) I will assume spacecraft navigation requires use of computational hardware and software able to deal with the 3 body problem in 4 dimensions.

In any case, the course offered by GW Johnson is limited to a 2 body problem in 2 dimensions.  It is suitable for gaining insight into the general scope of spacecraft missions, but it is not suitable for planning an actual flight.

What I am hoping we (NewMars) can do is to provide a framework for students to tackle the basic course offered by GW Johnson, and provide a mechanism for a flow of communication between students and Dr. Johnson, and other students.

If (and this is a BIG ** if **) I can adapt ChatGPT's capabilities to serve as a Teaching Assistant, then the transcripts of student engagement with ChatGPT in completing each lesson would be a public record of the student achievement (or not). 

To make all this happen (this is where you come in SpaceNut!) I am proposing to set up the class as a topic, and then create topics for each student. The work of the student would become a record in the NewMars database, available for any future employer to review, or for other students to study.  I expect that each interaction with ChatGPT and a given student will be unique, because ChatGPT tries to adapt to the human it is working with. ChatGPT has guidelines for how it interacts with humans, but within those it has proven (to me for sure) to be remarkably creative and helpful.

(th)

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#2862 2023-03-30 19:14:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

I have been peeking in.

I still have quite a bit of pain in several back locations with headache, but I am able to push through it tonight.

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#2863 2023-03-30 20:52:05

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #2862

Thanks for touching base with a few topics while you are under the weather. Best wishes for feeling better soon!

I'd like to start work on the new structure for GW's class tomorrow, but will wait to see if you have any guidance one way or the other.

This would be a topic separate form Orbital Mechanics, with very specific focus on the actual class. The idea is to publish the class as an offering (for  free) by the forum as an affiliate of the Mars Society.  The class would be publicized (to the extent free outreach works) and anyone could take the course. I am planning to set up the traditional course just exactly as Dr. Johnson delivered it, and then provide ChatGPT and BARD versions, as I have time.

GW is still adding content and finishing touches. 

(th)

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#2864 2023-03-31 07:09:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re proposed class structure ... I am taking no action today, because I am hoping you will feel better on the weekend, and have time to think about the proposal in work...

At the moment, I am thinking of setting up three topics, for the Basic Orbital Mechanics class Dr. Johnson has created, and is creating still.

The first would be the traditional class, which the student could take using a computer able to run a browser and a spreadsheet.

The second would be the same class, mediated by Artificial Intelligence Assistant 1 - I have established that AIA1 is able to support a student taking the class.

The third would be the same class, mediated by Artificial Intelligence Assistant 2 - I have established that AIA2 is able to support a student taking the class.

I would like to have Mars Society endorsement for this initiative.  The course material is the responsibility of Dr. Johnson.  Presentation is the responsibility of tahanson43206, and any errors reported in presentation will be corrected as soon as possible.

I'll be seeking National Space Society endorsement of the initiative.  The concept I have in mind, based upon my understanding of what Dr. Johnson is offering, is that the course provides a foundation for a career in space, although the specific specialization a person may follow will require additional education.

For example, a person planning to run a supply company delivering materials to Mars would be able to use this course as a foundation for further education in business management and leadership.  This person will hire those who decide to pursue the additional education needed to fly the payloads to Mars.

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#2865 2023-03-31 14:34:45

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re New Hampshire ...

I just learned that an NSS member who lives part of the year in Houston is moving back to New Hampshire.

It seems possible he will be moving back just in time for Hurricane Season!

(th)

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#2866 2023-04-01 09:08:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

Sounds good Th. as we need to get this valueable teaching method out to others for sure. I think that Mars society should want to take an interest in this as well through the University system as well. I am wondering if the team under James has any bandwidth left to take on this activity? Inquiry sent.

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#2867 2023-04-01 09:26:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re #2866

There's a lot going on in this forum these days, and I'm certainly having difficulty keeping up. Thank you for your helpful summary of recent posts by kbd512, in the Green topic.

And! thank you for noting the ongoing development of a course on Basic Orbital Mechanics by GW Johnson, and the various possible AI assistance scenarios I am exploring the ChatGPT and with BARD.

Regarding the points you have made about costs for energy .... The way we humans become wealthy is through cooperation, specialization and trade (to oversimplify).  It seems to me that the way for everyone to enjoy the wealth of a community is for those who are able to contribute more to do so in a spirit of generosity to less productive members of the community.

Generosity is not a universal human trait.  On balance, it seems to me that those who are generous are raising the living standard for everyone, and those who are not generous but who are productive are grousing about having to share their hard earned wealth with others.

In the Startrek Universe, the amount of wealth produced by automation is so great that all normal human needs are met, and humans are free to develop such talents as they may have and to provide such services to others as they may desire.

We are a mighty long way from ** from ** that Universe.

***
After re-reading Post #2866, I ** think ** you just gave a Green Light for the proposed structure for GW Johnson's class!

Thanks!

It will take about a week to put everything (or most elements of the framework at least) into place.

There is a possible meeting with NSS coming up in a week. I understand the folks who might attend the meeting have experience working with hundreds of students on NSS learning activities.  I am hoping Dr.Johnson's class will fit into their vision, but we'll see.

(th)

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#2868 2023-04-01 11:49:52

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... I just got Apache Internal Error again on a ** very ** small post...

Local time was 13:48 so UTC would have been 17:48

Have you received read-only access to the error logs yet?

(th)

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#2869 2023-04-02 14:56:13

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For James Burk .... here is a link to a post with the exact text of the Apache Internal Error:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 05#p207805

Thanks for investigating this pesky problem.

(th)

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#2870 2023-04-02 17:24:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: Housekeeping

We referenced that error multiple times even before that particular post.

So far, I have not seen any results or any other indication of failure or success at this point.
Only time will tell.

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#2871 2023-04-08 07:02:35

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... we've been (or at least ** I've ** been) seeing a new error mode recently ...

This webpage is not available
The server at newmars.com can't be found, because the DNS lookup failed. DNS is the network service that translates a website's name to its Internet address. This error is most often caused by having no connection to the Internet or a misconfigured network. It can also be caused by an unresponsive DNS server or a firewall preventing Google Chrome from accessing the network.

This error can occur if a web site is moved to a different server/web address... The DNS caches around the country (and around the world) have to be updated to the new location when that happens.

However, the error should go away after the DNS caches are re-established.

Update later the same day ... The same error occurred when I asked for NewMars on a Win 7 system ... Ping revealed an IP address of 69.163.253.124, which is owned by New Dream Network LLC located in Brea, California.

(th)

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#2872 2023-04-09 06:36:06

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... please let Mr. Burk know that the Apache Internal Server error occurred again today.

This is a test to cause the Apache Internal Server Error .... time of the attempt is UTC 12:31

The transcript below contains clarification that BARD cannot read Dropbox. I am not surprised, because Dropbox is a competitor to Google. As an alternative BARD offered to read files from Google Drive, and I think that is a practical solution. ChatGPT is able to read from Dropbox, but it may be able to read from Google Drive, so I'll be testing that possibility as we go along.

The attempt to post was made at the time given in the top line.

The error should be easy to find in the Apache error log, since I caused the error to occur precisely at the time indicated.

We have not received feedback from Mr. Burk about the nature of the problem, or any steps that might have been taken to fix it.

I did notice that the DNS cache had to be rebuilt in the past day or so.  This can occur if the application is moved from one server to another, and it will definitely occur if the IP address changes.

(th)

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#2873 2023-04-09 10:31:36

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut ... I just got the Apache Error with a very small post at UTC 16:28 or close to that.

I was trying to update the Email Outreach for today

***
Update at 16:27 local time ... Glad to see your post about automobiles today!  The weather's improving, and I'll bet you've been able to spend some time taking care of the substantial grounds you showed us!

I just ordered a hand held chain saw that Walmart had on offer.  The major retailers are not selling these at a price I can work with, but Walmart is taking a chance on this item.  They offer a 30 day warranty, which (for the price) looks about right.

If I get a season out of it, I'll be happy.  The dead wood is asking to be removed, and I've been dreading the task.  This little saw might just be the answer.  The tradeoff is increased risk due to being closer to the work.

(th)

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#2874 2023-04-09 14:34:37

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re GW's work ....

I hope you're keeping an eye on this ...

We have feelers out for participation by various parties, and since you are Senior Admin, at some point there is a decent chance you will find yourself at the center of attention.

(th)

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#2875 2023-04-11 08:15:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: Housekeeping

For SpaceNut re Dr. Zubrin's new book....

We don't seem to have a topic set up that is a good match for this new book ...

For that matter, I don't see an Index level that is a good match ...

Do you have any suggestions?

I would expect that all four of us moderator/admins would have a copy on hand for discussion...

I would expect that a professional like Calliban would have a copy ...

It should be possible to stretch discussion of the contents of the book over an extended period.

More importantly, there may be ideas that can lead to action.

Update Wednesday: https://vancouver-webcams.com/vancouver … ive-video/

(th)

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