2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

SpaceNut · 2021-02-12 10:44:47

Not good as mounting evidence is occurring The CDC and FDA received 1,170 reports of death among individuals in the U.S. who received a Covid vaccine — 0.003% of vaccinated people — between Dec. 14, 2020, and Feb. 7, 2021.

During this time, over 41 million doses of Pfizer or Moderna's Covid-19 vaccines were administered across the country, according to the CDC.

Calliban · 2021-02-12 11:24:49

There may well be a risk of adverse reaction and even fatality when taking a vaccine. A certain proportion of people will die because they took the vaccine. The question a person needs to ask is whether the risk of injury or death from the vaccine is greater than the risk from the disease? If the answer is 'no' then it makes sense to take the vaccine, even if there is a non-zero chance of fatality as a result of taking it. Where things start getting controversial is when: (1) There is not a clear understanding of the balance of risks; (2) The risk of dying from the vaccine and the disease is different for different sets of people; (3) The benefits of vaccination are herd based, but the risks are personal.

All three conditions apply here. For a man in his thirties, the risk of dying from COVID are very small. The risk of dying from the vaccine may actually outweigh them. But if a substantial portion of the population forego the vaccine, then herd vaccination won't work. So you end up with a situation where the state requires that you receive a vaccine that is not risk optimal for you, for the benefit of the rest of society. When they can't even tell you what the risk is, people are bound to feel even more uneasy. Throw into the mix the fact that various interest groups have deliberately inflated the crisis for political and economic reasons, the pharmaceutical industry amongst them, and you end up with even more controversy.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-02-12 11:29:18)

SpaceNut · 2021-02-12 18:12:59

Maybe its the vaccine maker that is the issues for increased deaths after taking them as the 0 virus deaths reported from 520,000 given the Pfizer vaccine in Israel. Hardly anybody even got sick, suggesting 93% effectiveness.

SpaceNut · 2021-02-13 19:07:21

U.K.'s Top Scientist Has a Chilling COVID Warning for Americans BB1cRs65.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

SpaceNut · 2021-02-15 17:54:41

video 7 coronavirus variants that originated in U.S

SpaceNut · 2021-02-21 19:30:01

The humble beginnings of the PCR test that makes civid-19 detection possible.
How a 1960s discovery in Yellowstone made millions of COVID-19 PCR tests possible

SpaceNut · 2021-02-23 21:20:56

Biden calls for national moment of silence for 500,000 U.S. COVID-19 deaths

About 19% of total global coronavirus deaths have occurred in the United States, an outsized figure given that the nation accounts for just 4% of the world’s population.

SpaceNut · 2021-03-01 17:59:29

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica … li=BBnb7Kz

It also looks like annual vaccine boosters will become the new norm.

Void · 2021-03-01 19:03:07

This might be worth a look as per the topic as suggested by Peter Zeihan:
https://mailchi.mp/zeihan/video-dispatc … whats-next

It is not all good, but for North Americans maybe not as bad as we might fear. We have chances for a return to a sort of normal life.

Done.

SpaceNut · 2021-03-07 15:02:52

Seems that people whom had survive to give blood which was filled with antibodies did not do as good as it had been hoped.
Widely used convalescent plasma treatment doesn't stop COVID-19 patients from getting sicker, study finds
Which sort of shows that we had variants not all the same across the nation..

SpaceNut · 2021-03-08 20:08:46

We now have other vaccines coming online with quantity of shots for delivery following but the question with all the variants is how effective, how many doses are needed to become safe with antibodies. When will we be able to feel that we are back to normal/
How Much Longer Will We Be Wearing Face Masks? Here’s What Experts Predict
As for actual mask mandates, "this will be done on the state-by-state basis" there is no question that republican governors are already reducing or removing them...

tahanson43206 · 2021-03-09 08:14:54

For SpaceNut re topic ... last night's late evening news included a segment on a New Hampshire success story ... Apparently a NASCAR racing stadium was enlisted to provide drive-by vaccinations for a number of residents. The story included images/video from the scene.

Apparently the reporter's brother-in-law is a NASCAR enthusiast, so he dragged his 90+ year old Mom to the event. Pretty impressive.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-03-10 20:00:13

Not sure how I feel about the near experimental still vaccines since they are all different and unknown as to how well they will work for the variants but next week I will be getting the first dose of the Modera vaccine at work....

louis · 2021-03-10 20:14:59

Mass flu vaccination...we end up with Covid. Worse than flu.

Mass Covid vaccination...we end up with what? Nothing? - old people brimming with good health? Do you believe in fairy stories?

You really think we can cheat pathogens that have been with us forever?

Vaccines don't make old people's lungs young again. They create vacancies for yet more novel pathogens. And eventually one of them will be lethal on a grand scale, something like the Spanish flu.

When it comes to respiratory viruses - much better the devil you know.

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut re topic ... last night's late evening news included a segment on a New Hampshire success story ... Apparently a NASCAR racing stadium was enlisted to provide drive-by vaccinations for a number of residents. The story included images/video from the scene.
Apparently the reporter's brother-in-law is a NASCAR enthusiast, so he dragged his 90+ year old Mom to the event. Pretty impressive.
(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-03-13 06:30:51

For Quaoar,

Best wishes for safety in your next tour of Covid duty!

I'm waiting for the call, to be deployed in Sicily with the Italian Civil Protection Agency Vaccination Team. By the moment I have a lot of free time, but soon I'll be very busy.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-03-13 10:21:05

Calliban wrote:

Apparently, even after being vaccinated, Americans must continue to wear masks and are forbidden to meet up even out in the open. One might begin to wonder if these restrictions on freedom really have anything to do with the virus.
Governments have repeatedly avoided the use of cost benefit analyses to justify these sorts of restrictions on freedom. Why exactly? Are they worried that the analysis won't back up their decisions?

From the non political side of the virus.

We only live and die once so if you care for living you take the actions to stay alive. There are no cost benefits to a dead person only one for if they live and can return to working.

So far before the virus vaccines were to become we have documented reinfections where the person that survives does not always develop any antibodies and can get re-infected with in a 90 day period again and again.

Other things that are not known is what variant you have or any other subsequent version that gets you sick again as its only resent that we have even tried to identify that there are several of them.

It is also unknown as to how the vaccines perform as allowing survival of the worst cases not to mention these are not cures that return a person to a youthful once taken as no cure does that.

SpaceNut · 2021-03-13 14:19:29

Saw this news just now
Italy coronavirus: Nation prepares for another lockdown as Covid-19 cases grow exponentially

This might already indicate mutations and resistance to the vaccines.....

tahanson43206 · 2021-03-13 15:07:00

For SpaceNut re #742

That report you've cited may explain why Quaoar was asked to stand by to help with vaccinations.

He may be (and probably is) back at risk, once again, by helping on the front lines.

(th)

kbd512 · 2021-03-13 15:45:52

Louis,

Influenza vaccinations did NOT cause COVID-19. Not vaccinating against influenza would not have stopped COVID-19, nor vice versa. The two viruses have little to do with each other. The newer SARS-like avian and bat viruses have become increasingly serious problems for other mammals over the past century. Prior to the last century, there were no industrialized farming operations capable of quickly spreading pathogens between vast numbers of animals and humans. Influenza, on the other hand, has been with us for at least 8,000 years. The use of medical technology such as anti-viral drugs and vaccinations to prevent serious illness is NOT cheating anyone or anything, either. It's improving the quality of life for millions or even billions of people. Humanity has already paid a high enough price to get to where we are today, and there's no reason to regress to satiate the fears of people who don't understand vaccines and refuse to do so.

louis · 2021-03-13 19:08:00

Never read such tendentious nonsense.

1. SARS did not arise as a result of industrialised farming.

2. Chinese peasants in common with poor peasants across the world live cheek by jowl with their animals. Diseases are crossing the species "barrier" all the time - it's just a question of why only a few are successful.

3. Old people's lungs - well all lungs really - are an environmental niche, a pretty easily accessible one as well. Getting into the lungs is a lot easier than getting through the skin barrier. But old people's lungs are particularly inviting for pathogens because they are poorly protected (less effective immune system) and often diseased in a more general sense, ie not functioning properly.

4. Please don't confuse anti-viral drugs with vaccinations. Mass vaccination does not address only the needs of sick people. It is mass medication of mostly healthy people.

5. You say flu has been with us for 8000 years but it has been subjected to a mass vaccination eradication campaign for a couple of decades now. In the UK in mid Feb this year, despite 600,000 sample tests not a SINGLE case of flu had been detected sice the beginning of the year! That's truly unprecedented.

6. I don't know what your scientific qualifications in this regard are but many scientists do believe SARS got a hold because of the impact of the flu vaccination campaign. It's just you never hear from them in the MSM.

7. You do know the Astra Zeneca vaccine has just been withdrawn from use in at least 12 countries because of concerns re blood clot effects?

8. You have this insane idea that a very old person has the Covid vaccine, then doesn't get Covid or die from the demands of the vaccine on their system (neither guaranteed) and afterwards goes on to enjoy an extra year or two of rosy twilight years in perfect health. This is nonsense. If Covid is going to cause your death, your immune system or your body more generally is already pretty compromised. If you protect very old people with weakened immune systems from a respiratory pathogen death it is likely they will die of something like sepsis, which may involve amputation of limbs, or Alzheimers so losing contact with family and reality more generally, or Parkinsons - ending in a total shutdown of functioning - or cancer with all its pain and unpleasant complications. You are essentially depriving old people of a dignified exit.

kbd512 wrote:

Louis,
Influenza vaccinations did NOT cause COVID-19. Not vaccinating against influenza would not have stopped COVID-19, nor vice versa. The two viruses have little to do with each other. The newer SARS-like avian and bat viruses have become increasingly serious problems for other mammals over the past century. Prior to the last century, there were no industrialized farming operations capable of quickly spreading pathogens between vast numbers of animals and humans. Influenza, on the other hand, has been with us for at least 8,000 years. The use of medical technology such as anti-viral drugs and vaccinations to prevent serious illness is NOT cheating anyone or anything, either. It's improving the quality of life for millions or even billions of people. Humanity has already paid a high enough price to get to where we are today, and there's no reason to regress to satiate the fears of people who don't understand vaccines and refuse to do so.

Last edited by louis (2021-03-13 19:09:41)

kbd512 · 2021-03-14 15:45:54

louis wrote:

Never read such tendentious nonsense.

Louis,

Sorry you feel that way, but I keep reading tedious disproven nonsense about vaccines, so I respond with my tendentious nonsense, because I want people to live long enough to concoct absurd ideas based upon their personal ideology and whopping sample size of one, based upon their own personal experience. I understand that your child had severe adverse reactions to a vaccine in the past, and while that's terrible for your child, it's not a valid reason for everyone else to forego vaccination. Vaccinating them against lethal pathogens is part of that end goal. After they receive their vaccine and don't die of lethal pathogens, then they can tell the medical doctors how stupid they were for preventing countless millions of people from dying from various diseases.

louis wrote:

1. SARS did not arise as a result of industrialised farming.

I never claimed that it did. However, the combination of poor sanitation practices and co-locating millions of farm animals together, that are part of our food supply, certainly does create vast host reservoirs for viruses to spread, mutate, and eventually transition from animals to humans. Very few of these lethal pathogens started in a pool of human hosts, but natural serial passage through large animal host reservoirs, when those host reservoirs are in very close proximity to humans, seem to be very effective at passing the diseases onto humans.

louis wrote:

2. Chinese peasants in common with poor peasants across the world live cheek by jowl with their animals. Diseases are crossing the species "barrier" all the time - it's just a question of why only a few are successful.

Perhaps creating optimal conditions for rapid serial passage, mutation, and subsequent transmission of diseases from animals to humans wasn't a very bright idea?

louis wrote:

3. Old people's lungs - well all lungs really - are an environmental niche, a pretty easily accessible one as well. Getting into the lungs is a lot easier than getting through the skin barrier. But old people's lungs are particularly inviting for pathogens because they are poorly protected (less effective immune system) and often diseased in a more general sense, ie not functioning properly.

Also true. Since drugs have their own side-effects, tend to cost more money than vaccines, and in the case of many anti-virals cost a LOT more money, and don't work for everyone, why wouldn't we vaccinate the elderly? I've never heard of a disease that was eradicated by popping pills, but we have effectively eradicated diseases through vaccination.

My Uncle was administered every treatment the doctors could think of for COVID, including experimental ones. If he had the vaccine onboard, chances are better than average that he wouldn't be dead.

louis wrote:

4. Please don't confuse anti-viral drugs with vaccinations. Mass vaccination does not address only the needs of sick people. It is mass medication of mostly healthy people.

That was never my intention. At the present time, disease prevention is a lot easier / cheaper / faster than disease treatment, which would be why so many of us are in favor of vaccination programs.

louis wrote:

5. You say flu has been with us for 8000 years but it has been subjected to a mass vaccination eradication campaign for a couple of decades now. In the UK in mid Feb this year, despite 600,000 sample tests not a SINGLE case of flu had been detected sice the beginning of the year! That's truly unprecedented.

Yes, better hygiene practices and social distancing are astonishingly effective at preventing the spread of influenza. That means there won't be any real need for influenza vaccines this year, so there won't be any money to be made there, so that eliminates the argument that it's just about selling vaccines to make money. The only alternative explanation is that lab workers and medical scientists across the entire world are all lying, all the time, to push for vaccination campaigns against lethal pathogens, which seems like a remarkably absurd lie.

louis wrote:

6. I don't know what your scientific qualifications in this regard are but many scientists do believe SARS got a hold because of the impact of the flu vaccination campaign. It's just you never hear from them in the MSM.

There are also many medical scientists who don't believe that. Absent more and better evidence, this explanation is very much like the entirely unsupportable claim that vaccines caused ASD.

louis wrote:

7. You do know the Astra Zeneca vaccine has just been withdrawn from use in at least 12 countries because of concerns re blood clot effects?

Anything is possible, but if the FDA thought that the Astra Zeneca vaccine was causing blood clotting issues, they'd pull their approval in a New York minute.

louis wrote:

8. You have this insane idea that a very old person has the Covid vaccine, then doesn't get Covid or die from the demands of the vaccine on their system (neither guaranteed) and afterwards goes on to enjoy an extra year or two of rosy twilight years in perfect health. This is nonsense. If Covid is going to cause your death, your immune system or your body more generally is already pretty compromised. If you protect very old people with weakened immune systems from a respiratory pathogen death it is likely they will die of something like sepsis, which may involve amputation of limbs, or Alzheimers so losing contact with family and reality more generally, or Parkinsons - ending in a total shutdown of functioning - or cancer with all its pain and unpleasant complications. You are essentially depriving old people of a dignified exit.

I have this idea that if COVID kills them prior to anything else killing them, then they don't have to worry about their other medical issues. In general, unlike so many other people, I've accepted that death is certain and we should instead focus on quality of life for the living. I see the COVID vaccine as improving their quality of life for their remaining years.

SpaceNut · 2021-03-15 17:51:04

Got moderna shot today at work as required and aside from sore arm at shot site the only other thing is a headache which is a side effect for some.

SpaceNut · 2021-03-21 13:11:20

Gave a call to mom and step dad to find out that they had both received the first shot maybe two weeks ago. Which is good since he is 97.
Then it was mentioned that brother had come down sick this week to a positive test and while starting to feel a bit better his wife is now showing signs as well.
The concern is that the building shares a wall between them with time since shots not being long enough for immunity to build.

louis · 2021-03-21 13:36:18

The vaccine reduces your natural immunity for about a week. People are vulnerable to infection during those days - ironically, including Covid.

SpaceNut wrote:

Gave a call to mom and step dad to find out that they had both received the first shot maybe two weeks ago. Which is good since he is 97.
Then it was mentioned that brother had come down sick this week to a positive test and while starting to feel a bit better his wife is now showing signs as well.
The concern is that the building shares a wall between them with time since shots not being long enough for immunity to build.

louis · 2021-03-21 13:37:38

Totally unconstitutional and unethical that your employer should be able to force you to take a medicine which could kill you.

SpaceNut wrote:

Got moderna shot today at work as required and aside from sore arm at shot site the only other thing is a headache which is a side effect for some.

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#726 2021-02-12 10:44:47

Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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Re: 2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

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