2019 NCOV a.k.a. Wuhan's Diseases

kbd512 · 2020-09-14 19:14:06

Dr Li-Meng Yan just posted this paper:

Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route

From the paper:

As elaborated below, the way that SARS-CoV-2 RBM resembles SARS-CoV RBM and the overall sequence conservation pattern between SARS-CoV-2 and ZC45/ZXC21 are highly unusual. Collectively, this suggests that portions of the SARS-CoV-2 genome have not been derived from natural quasi-species viral particle evolution.
If SARS-CoV-2 does indeed come from natural evolution, its RBM could have only been acquired in one of the two possible routes: 1) an ancient recombination event followed by convergent evolution or 2) a natural recombination event that occurred fairly recently.
In the first scenario, the ancestor of SARS-CoV-2, a ZC45/ZXC21-like bat coronavirus would have recombined and “swapped” its RBM with a coronavirus carrying a relatively “complete” RBM (in reference to SARS). This recombination would result in a novel ZC45/ZXC21-like coronavirus with all the gaps in its RBM “filled” (Figure 4). Subsequently, the virus would have to adapt extensively in its new host, where the ACE2 protein is highly homologous to hACE2. Random mutations across the genome would have to have occurred to eventually shape the RBM to its current form – resembling SARS-CoV RBM in a highly intelligent manner. However, this convergent evolution process would also result in the accumulation of a large amount of mutations in other parts of the genome, rendering the overall sequence identity relatively low. The high sequence identity between SARS-CoV-2 and ZC45/ZXC21 on various proteins (94-100% identity) do not support this scenario and, therefore, clearly indicates that SARS-CoV- 2 carrying such an RBM cannot come from a ZC45/ZXC21-like bat coronavirus through this convergent evolutionary route.
In the second scenario, the ZC45/ZXC21-like coronavirus would have to have recently recombined and swapped its RBM with another coronavirus that had successfully adapted to bind an animal ACE2 highly homologous to hACE2. The likelihood of such an event depends, in part, on the general requirements of natural recombination: 1) that the two different viruses share significant sequence similarity; 2) that they must co-infect and be present in the same cell of the same animal; 3) that the recombinant virus would not be cleared by the host or make the host extinct; 4) that the recombinant virus eventually would have to become stable and transmissible within the host species.
In regard to this recent recombination scenario, the animal reservoir could not be bats because the ACE2 proteins in bats are not homologous enough to hACE2 and therefore the adaption would not be able to yield an RBM sequence as seen in SARS-CoV-2. This animal reservoir also could not be humans as the ZC45/ZXC21-like coronavirus would not be able to infect humans. In addition, there has been no evidence of any SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-CoV-2-like virus circulating in the human population prior to late 2019. Intriguingly, according to a recent bioinformatics study, SARS-CoV-2 was well-adapted for humans since the start of the outbreak1.
Only one other possibility of natural evolution remains, which is that the ZC45/ZXC21-like virus and a coronavirus containing a SARS-like RBM could have recombined in an intermediate host where the ACE2 protein is homologous to hACE2. Several laboratories have reported that some of the Sunda pangolins smuggled into China from Malaysia carried coronaviruses, the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of which is almost identical to that of SARS-CoV-227-29,31. They then went on to suggest that pangolins are the likely intermediate host for SARS-CoV-227-29,31. However, recent independent reports have found significant flaws in this data40-42. Furthermore, contrary to these reports27-29,31, no coronaviruses have been detected in Sunda pangolin samples collected for over a decade in Malaysia and Sabah between 2009 and 201943. A recent study also showed that the RBD, which is shared between SARS-CoV-2 and the reported pangolin coronaviruses, binds to hACE2 ten times stronger than to the pangolin ACE22, further dismissing pangolins as the possible intermediate host. Finally, an in silico study, while echoing the notion that pangolins are not likely an intermediate host, also indicated that none of the animal ACE2 proteins examined in their study exhibited more favorable binding potential to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein than hACE2 did3. This last study virtually exempted all animals from their suspected roles as an intermediate host3, which is consistent with the observation that SARS-CoV-2 was well-adapted for humans from the start of the outbreak1. This is significant because these findings collectively suggest that no intermediate host seems to exist for SARS-CoV-2, which at the very least diminishes the possibility of a recombinant event occurring in an intermediate host.
Even if we ignore the above evidence that no proper host exists for the recombination to take place and instead assume that such a host does exist, it is still highly unlikely that such a recombination event could occur in nature.
As we have described above, if natural recombination event is responsible for the appearance of SARS- CoV-2, then the ZC45/ZXC21-like virus and a coronavirus containing a SARS-like RBM would have to recombine in the same cell by swapping the S1/RBM, which is a rare form of recombination. Furthermore, since SARS has occurred only once in human history, it would be at least equally rare for nature to produce a virus that resembles SARS in such an intelligent manner – having an RBM that differs from the SARS RBM only at a few non-essential sites (Figure 4). The possibility that this unique SARS-like coronavirus would reside in the same cell with the ZC45/ZXC21-like ancestor virus and the two viruses would recombine in the “RBM-swapping” fashion is extremely low. Importantly, this, and the other recombination event described below in section 1.3 (even more impossible to occur in nature), would both have to happen to produce a Spike as seen in SARS-CoV-2.
While the above evidence and analyses together appear to disapprove a natural origin of SARS-CoV- 2’s RBM, abundant literature shows that gain-of-function research, where the Spike protein of a coronavirus was specifically engineered, has repeatedly led to the successful generation of human- infecting coronaviruses from coronaviruses of non-human origin44-47.
Record also shows that research laboratories, for example, the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), have successfully carried out such studies working with US researchers45 and also working alone47. In addition, the WIV has engaged in decades-long coronavirus surveillance studies and therefore owns the world’s largest collection of coronaviruses. Evidently, the technical barrier is non-existent for the WIV and other related laboratories to carry out and succeed in such Spike/RBM engineering and gain-of- function research.
Strikingly, consistent with the RBM engineering theory, we have identified two unique restriction sites, EcoRI and BstEII, at either end of the RBM of the SARS-CoV-2 genome, respectively (Figure 5A). These two sites, which are popular choices of everyday molecular cloning, do not exist in the rest of this spike gene. This particular setting makes it extremely convenient to swap the RBM within spike, providing a quick way to test different RBMs and the corresponding Spike proteins.
Such EcoRI and BstEII sites do not exist in the spike genes of other β coronaviruses, which strongly indicates that they were unnatural and were specifically introduced into this spike gene of SARS-CoV-2 for the convenience of manipulating the critical RBM. Although ZC45 spike also does not have these two sites (Figure 5B), they can be introduced very easily as described in part 2 of this report.
It is noteworthy that introduction of the EcoRI site here would change the corresponding amino acids from -WNT- to -WNS- (Figure 5AB). As far as we know, all SARS and SARS-like bat coronaviruses exclusively carry a T (threonine) residue at this location. SARS-CoV-2 is the only exception in that this T has mutated to an S (serine), save the suspicious RaTG13 and pangolin coronaviruses published after the outbreak48.
Once the restriction sites were successfully introduced, the RBM segment could be swapped conveniently using routine restriction enzyme digestion and ligation. Although alternative cloning techniques may leave no trace of genetic manipulation (Gibson assembly as one example), this old- fashioned approach could be chosen because it offers a great level of convenience in swapping this critical RBM.
Given that RBM fully dictates hACE2-binding and that the SARS RBM-hACE2 binding was fully characterized by high-resolution structures (Figure 3)37,38, this RBM-only swap would not be any riskier than the full Spike swap. In fact, the feasibility of this RBM-swap strategy has been proven39,47. In 2008, Dr. Zhengli Shi’s group swapped a SARS RBM into the Spike proteins of several SARS-like bat coronaviruses after introducing a restriction site into a codon-optimized spike gene (Figure 5C)47. They then validated the binding of the resulted chimeric Spike proteins with hACE2. Furthermore, in a recent publication, the RBM of SARS-CoV-2 was swapped into the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of SARS- CoV, resulting in a chimeric RBD fully functional in binding hACE2 (Figure 5C)39. Strikingly, in both cases, the manipulated RBM segments resemble almost exactly the RBM defined by the positions of the EcoRI and BstEII sites (Figure 5C). Although cloning details are lacking in both publications39,47, it is conceivable that the actual restriction sites may vary depending on the spike gene receiving the RBM insertion as well as the convenience in introducing unique restriction site(s) in regions of interest. It is noteworthy that the corresponding author of this recent publication39, Dr. Fang Li, has been an active collaborator of Dr. Zhengli Shi since 201049-53. Dr. Li was the first person in the world to have structurally elucidated the binding between SARS-CoV RBD and hACE238 and has been the leading expert in the structural understanding of Spike-ACE2 interactions38,39,53-56. The striking finding of EcoRI and BstEII restriction sites at either end of the SARS-CoV-2 RBM, respectively, and the fact that the same RBM region has been swapped both by Dr. Shi and by her long-term collaborator, respectively, using restriction enzyme digestion methods are unlikely a coincidence. Rather, it is the smoking gun proving that the RBM/Spike of SARS-CoV-2 is a product of genetic manipulation.
Although it may be convenient to copy the exact sequence of SARS RBM, it would be too clear a sign of artificial design and manipulation. The more deceiving approach would be to change a few non- essential residues, while preserving the ones critical for binding. This design could be well-guided by the high-resolution structures (Figure 3)37,38. This way, when the overall sequence of the RBM would appear to be more distinct from that of the SARS RBM, the hACE2-binding ability would be well-preserved. We believe that all of the crucial residues (residues labeled with red sticks in Figure 4, which are the same residues shown in sticks in Figure 3C) should have been “kept”. As described earlier, while some should be direct preservation, some should have been switched to residues with similar properties, which would not disrupt hACE2-binding and may even strengthen the association further. Importantly, changes might have been made intentionally at non-essential sites, making it less like a “copy and paste” of the SARS RBM.
1.3 An unusual furin-cleavage site is present in the Spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and is associated with the augmented virulence of the virus
Another unique motif in the Spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 is a polybasic furin-cleavage site located at the S1/S2 junction (Figure 4, segment in between two green lines). Such a site can be recognized and cleaved by the furin protease. Within the lineage B of β coronaviruses and with the exception of SARS- CoV-2, no viruses contain a furin-cleavage site at the S1/S2 junction (Figure 6)57. In contrast, furin- cleavage site at this location has been observed in other groups of coronaviruses57,58. Certain selective pressure seems to be in place that prevents the lineage B of β coronaviruses from acquiring or maintaining such a site in nature.
As previously described, during the cell entry process, the Spike protein is first cleaved at the S1/S2 junction. This step, and a subsequent cleavage downstream that exposes the fusion peptide, are both mediated by host proteases. The presence or absence of these proteases in different cell types greatly affects the cell tropism and presumably the pathogenicity of the viral infection. Unlike other proteases, furin protease is widely expressed in many types of cells and is present at multiple cellular and extracellular locations. Importantly, the introduction of a furin-cleavage site at the S1/S2 junction could significantly enhance the infectivity of a virus as well as greatly expand its cell tropism — a phenomenon well-documented in both influenza viruses and other coronaviruses59-65.
If we leave aside the fact that no furin-cleavage site is found in any lineage B β coronavirus in nature and instead assume that this site in SARS-CoV-2 is a result of natural evolution, then only one evolutionary pathway is possible, which is that the furin-cleavage site has to be derived from a homologous recombination event. Specifically, an ancestor β coronavirus containing no furin-cleavage site would have to recombine with a closely related coronavirus that does contain a furin-cleavage site.
However, two facts disfavor this possibility. First, although some coronaviruses from other groups or lineages do contain polybasic furin-cleavage sites, none of them contains the exact polybasic sequence present in SARS-CoV-2 (-PRRAR/SVA-). Second, between SARS-CoV-2 and any coronavirus containing a legitimate furin-cleavage site, the sequence identity on Spike is no more than 40%66. Such a low level of sequence identity rules out the possibility of a successful homologous recombination ever occurring between the ancestors of these viruses. Therefore, the furin-cleavage site within the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein is unlikely to be of natural origin and instead should be a result of laboratory modification.
Consistent with this claim, a close examination of the nucleotide sequence of the furin-cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 spike has revealed that the two consecutive Arg residues within the inserted sequence (- PRRA-) are both coded by the rare codon CGG (least used codon for Arg in SARS-CoV-2) (Figure 7)8. In fact, this CGGCGG arrangement is the only instance found in the SARS-CoV-2 genome where this rare codon is used in tandem. This observation strongly suggests that this furin-cleavage site should be a result of genetic engineering. Adding to the suspicion, a FauI restriction site is formulated by the codon choices here, suggesting the possibility that the restriction fragment length polymorphism, a technique that a WIV lab is proficient at67, could have been involved. There, the fragmentation pattern resulted from FauI digestion could be used to monitor the preservation of the furin-cleavage site in Spike as this furin- cleavage site is prone to deletions in vitro68,69. Specifically, RT-PCR on the spike gene of the recovered viruses from cell cultures or laboratory animals could be carried out, the product of which would be subjected to FauI digestion. Viruses retaining or losing the furin-cleavage site would then yield distinct patterns, allowing convenient tracking of the virus(es) of interest.
In addition, although no known coronaviruses contain the exact sequence of -PRRAR/SVA- that is present in the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein, a similar -RRAR/AR- sequence has been observed at the S1/S2 junction of the Spike protein in a rodent coronavirus, AcCoV-JC34, which was published by Dr. Zhengli Shi in 201770. It is evident that the legitimacy of -RRAR- as a functional furin-cleavage site has been known to the WIV experts since 2017.
The evidence collectively suggests that the furin-cleavage site in the SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein may not have come from nature and could be the result of genetic manipulation. The purpose of this manipulation could have been to assess any potential enhancement of the infectivity and pathogenicity of the laboratory-made coronavirus59-64. Indeed, recent studies have confirmed that the furin-cleavage site does confer significant pathogenic advantages to SARS-CoV-257,68.
1.4 Summary
Evidence presented in this part reveals that certain aspects of the SARS-CoV-2 genome are extremely difficult to reconcile to being a result of natural evolution. The alternative theory we suggest is that the virus may have been created by using ZC45/ZXC21 bat coronavirus(es) as the backbone and/or template. The Spike protein, especially the RBM within it, should have been artificially manipulated, upon which the virus has acquired the ability to bind hACE2 and infect humans. This is supported by the finding of a unique restriction enzyme digestion site at either end of the RBM. An unusual furin-cleavage site may have been introduced and inserted at the S1/S2 junction of the Spike protein, which contributes to the increased virulence and pathogenicity of the virus. These transformations have then staged the SARS- CoV-2 virus to eventually become a highly-transmissible, onset-hidden, lethal, sequelae-unclear, and massively disruptive pathogen.
Evidently, the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 could have been created through gain-of-function manipulations at the WIV is significant and should be investigated thoroughly and independently.

I'll want to see some independent verification of this.

Last edited by kbd512 (2020-09-14 20:08:21)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-15 20:26:46

I do not own the Apple products should be possible to write code for other os…
The new Apple Watch Series 6 comes with a blood oxygen sensor and app to give you more ways to monitor your heart and respiratory health. Together they measure your oxygen saturation (SpO2) in your blood -- how much oxygen from your lungs your red blood cells pick up and transport to all of the other parts of your body

Would be a tool to catch the drop off of oxygen getting to the blood stream.

SpaceNut · 2020-09-16 19:10:23

The death toll from a coronavirus outbreak linked to an indoor wedding and reception in Maine has risen to seven, with the number of cases connected to the event up to 176.

About 65 people attended the event, in violation of Gov. Janet Mills' executive order limiting indoor gatherings to 50 people, the Maine CDC has said. The growing outbreak came after about 65 guests attended the Aug. 7 wedding in Millinocket, Maine

Terraformer · 2020-09-18 07:10:51

Well, back into "lockdown" we go.

No meeting other people outdoors, where the risk of transmission is low. Instead we have to meet them at the pub, where the risk of transmission is high.

We are ruled by fools.

SpaceNut · 2020-09-18 17:09:51

Are masks really more effective than a coronavirus vaccine?

Should not an issue as niether seem to be the chioce that some would wish to do....

Calliban · 2020-09-19 03:54:57

Terraformer wrote:

Well, back into "lockdown" we go.
No meeting other people outdoors, where the risk of transmission is low. Instead we have to meet them at the pub, where the risk of transmission is high.
We are ruled by fools.

Indeed we are. None of the 'controls' put in place to combat corona virus have had any beneficial effect whatsoever. Countries and states without any lockdown or mask policies, show no difference in excess deaths.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/death … be-avoided

So why have we been put through this nonsense? At the start of the panic, governments were under pressure to demonstrate that they were 'doing something' whether it be justified or effective or not. Now I suspect that governments have realised that the fake crisis is actually useful to them in controlling people. Limiting the number of people allowed to meet is a standard dictum of totalitarian governments. And that is exactly what Britain is, with its anti-freespeech laws and other anti-democratic BS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8

Last edited by Calliban (2020-09-19 03:56:54)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-19 08:43:51

From what I have seen for death rates that is from the age of the victims and level of care given soon enough. We wait to long to get medical care intervention as we do not test for any flu like virus normally. The other part of this is knowing that the tests are not accurate, that the period of time for the results are to long for them and not having anything that seems to work early to defeat the diseases effects from infection. The disease attacks each person somewhat differently and may show no symptoms.
Where I live we have about 50% of people wearing masks and with that number lessoning we are seeing a rise in the infected.
Even where I work we have had months of no infections and from complacency we have now had a van pool that infected many and have caused others exposed to be quarantined as well.

GW Johnson · 2020-09-19 09:28:10

For centuries before there were vaccines or any non-witch doctor disease treatments, the tools for fighting plagues were quarantines and masks. They work, and fairly well, and "that's a fact, Jack", whether anybody likes them or not.

What we are faced with here is a new disease, wherever it might have come from, for which at the outset, we had no immunity and no treatments. Guess what: the old remedies of masks and quarantine were the only tools we had. Exactly how they get implemented is the issue here.

Now that months have gone by, our experiences with this disease have led to very good candidates for treatments and for vaccines. We might have those more-or-less in place "for everybody" next year. Our experiences have also taught us that the old tools (masks and quarantines) don't work very well if everybody doesn't do them. Doesn't matter whether you like them or not, you have to do them, to make them work. Too many fail to isolate properly. That's why they fail.

This gets pitched way too universally as "fight the disease and ruin the economy". Only initially is that true. You don't have to do that anymore, once you have enough experience with the new disease to more fully understand how it is transmitted. Activities and businesses have to take an honest, hard look at how to revise the way they do things, in order to stop disease transmission. Then they have to honestly do them, and monitor for success, in order to reopen. It is as simple, and as hard, as that.

We humans (everywhere) have too many ignorant politicians who are unable or unwilling to learn these things effectively from the scientists and the medical people. They keep polarizing this into a lives-lost vs money-lost thing. You can tell the morality or immorality of these people by what they value more: lives or money.

But that question is now obsolete with this disease. We know enough about how it is transmitted now, to adapt our activities and mostly stay open for economic activity without increasing its transmission too much. We also know enough to track whether the changes to any particular activity are effective. That knowledge allows us to shut it down and try another modification, without setting loose the plague again.

But this requires leaders who are astute enough to understand what has to be done, and who are moral enough to actually do it, regardless of the personal political consequences. I see too few such.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-09-19 09:32:20)

kbd512 · 2020-09-19 10:47:08

GW,

Lives depend upon money for the exchange of goods and services that keep people alive, namely food / clothing / shelter / water / medical care. There's no separating the two from each other, it's only a question of how much money are you willing to spend to keep people alive.

Here in America we have one political party whose voters want government to control every aspect of your existence on Earth, from cradle-to-grave, and another political party whose voters think that there should be limits to government. Right now we're engaged in a Battle Royale between the people who want authoritarianism and the people who want government to stay out of most aspects of their lives.

I take no issue with wearing a mask and gloves. It's not any kind of major imposition on anyone's life. We wore far less comfortable gas masks and SCBAs in the military for many hours on end, at least once per day, as part of our daily general quarters training routine. However, I have a big issue with continuing to shut down the economy while jobs are lost and people starve to death.

Calliban · 2020-09-19 11:53:29

Except lockdowns, quarantine and masks haven't saved lives.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac

But they sure have ruined the economy. Britain is now even further down the road to a totalitarian state than it was before.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-09-19 11:54:51)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-19 15:40:40

The issue with numbers is they can lie or be made to support anything. Since the real death count was not identified for any reason then the numbers now attributed to covid caused deaths. If those numbers can be isolated from the baseline numbers from normal deaths one could say when looking at the same data set of people but thats not the case as we did not do a good enough job to identify that baseline as we never tested for other flu/bacterium or viral caused in the past. Its testing for those causes at all to identify cause as not so normal level of deaths that we are comparing apples to oranges.

Population density has a huge offset to how many will be infected by a simple sneeze that is not covered, a cough that hacks up a lung in the process as this is spread by particulates and by moist touched surfaces. If common touched surfaces are not constantly cleaned by disinfectant then just wearing a mask will not be enough.

People that wear a mask like a chin warmer, inside a places after entering past the reminder at the door to wear them help no one as much as the one that does not cover the nose with it...

The jury is out on the level of protection given with the face shield for spread but its better than nothing at all.

The business must adjust to the changes required to lower the risk and that is in reduced numbers and using the outside more...

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-19 16:44:06

For SpaceNut re #611

As a slight change of pace ... An enterprising company is offering a full Mars Suit style head set for $199 (per an advertisement I caught some time today.)

The head set is fitted with air filtration equipment.

So for that price, a person would be protected from outside, and would certainly be protecting others.

If that is the opening price, I would expect discounting to be in effect soon.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-19 16:53:35

The news that our UK members are a part of Protests erupt in London over coronavirus restrictions

'The numbers don't lie': Masks help curb infections, officials say

There are still many Americans who resist, protest against and rant about wearing face masks. But state and county health officials across the country say the stark drop in Covid-19 case counts in their communities before and after mask orders were imposed clearly show how effective they can be in reducing the spread of the coronavirus.

Edit
A quick google/bing for the helmets turns up 3 different units.
NFL football, Hospital doctors and the worker in the field for temperature taking...

This one is like the plastic tub https://www.helmetbasedventilation.com/
https://nypost.com/2020/09/10/new-covid … e-workers/

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/sty … r-BB16wsLN
special helmet designs for next week's Spanish Grand Prix

This one caught my eye for taking temperatures
https://www.bworldonline.com/covid-dete … d-locally/

With the death toll nearing or already over the 200,000 we should pause to remember them
https://abcnews.go.com/US/faces-coronav … d=69932880

SpaceNut · 2020-09-20 18:09:56

What It Would Take for Herd Immunity to Stop the Coronavirus Pandemic

To reach herd immunity for Covid-19, public-health authorities estimate that around 60% to 70% of a given population would need to develop an immune response to the virus. Some epidemiologists and mathematicians now say herd effects might start to kick in before that point, at perhaps closer to 50%, suggesting potential protection could be achieved sooner.

Even with and unknown infected counted we are no where near 50% of the US population to even think that we have a semi protected defense for the virus...

Trump threw stimulus checks back into play and called for a large economic aid package — but Republicans still aren't backing more spending

Restaurants need to brace for 18 more months of extreme challenges — and the election is about to make things worse: To describe 2020 as a bad year for restaurants is an understatement.

Nearly 100,000 restaurants have closed across the US since the pandemic began, according to the National Restaurant Association. That's roughly one in six of all restaurants across the country.
And according to the association, 43% of full-service operators say it is unlikely their business will still be open in six months if conditions created by the coronavirus pandemic do not improve. Unfortunately, experts say that actual improvement is a long way off.
"It's very clear now that it's not a 2020 problem," Oliver Wright, the global head of Accenture's consumer goods and services practice, told Business Insider.

SpaceNut · 2020-09-25 20:28:09

7 million infected for the US and over 200,000 dead and as scary as that number is to the model that indicated its figure we are in for possibly another 200,000 at the end of the next 4 months

SpaceNut · 2020-09-27 09:27:58

Florida has started to completely open with an already rising infection and death rate. Not good that they do not care about life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica … li=BBnb7Kz

SpaceNut · 2020-09-28 19:39:22

Work has had a person that with in a 2 or 3 month span has become infected twice with confirming tests of positive each time. It means weak or near zero immunity and leaves possibly reinfection more or less 90 days as probable.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-02 17:49:38

We now know that the full cycle of the president preferred drug did not prevent getting vivid-19 infection and while described as mild he has a 50% of it getting more severe in the next 5-10 days and has gone to hospital for the antibody.

We now know that several dozen have already tested positive from those that are his inner circle. He also is trying everything and anything to try to get ahead of the virus and he did need oxygen which is a sign of the lungs infection.

So much for virus being a hoax.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-10 10:31:27

The use of masks have been proven effective and COVID-19 cases in Arizona spiked 151% after a statewide stay-at-home order expired and dropped 75% following local mask mandates, a new report says. While President is still infectious out in the public....

A promising coronavirus cure just failed in drug large-scale clinical trial from the UK.

The lopinavir-ritonavir combo joins the list of other promising drugs that were not effective against coronavirus. Hydroxychloroquine is the most prominent example and tocilizumab (Actemra) is another.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-11 18:12:00

https://epidemic-stats.com/

COUNTRY INFECTED DEATHS RECOVERED

USA 7,600,846 214,277 4,818,509

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc … ng-us.html

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus … -timelapse
https://youtu.be/Hqfaf9Q-RGc

course we are fighting a fight of rights ending up in courts to save lives when we have proven fact that they work...

A Wisconsin state judge refused on Monday to terminate Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’s mask-wearing mandate. or this one where Wisconsin mask mandate upheld in court as coronavirus cases surge

kbd512 · 2020-10-12 10:24:48

SpaceNut,

Of all those who died from COVID-19, according to Dr Jason Kessler, just 6% (12,857 of 214,277) had no other co-morbidities. 75% of those who died were aged 65 or older, the largest group with significant and ultimately fatal health problems. It's amazing that nearly 100% of the deaths involving COVID-19 also involved Pneumonia, in every single age category, without exception. That's pretty crazy. You'd think that at least a few of the COVID-19 patients wouldn't also be fighting Pneumonia at the time of their death, but I guess not. One might reasonably conclude that the combination of the two at the same time is what actually killed the patient. It's also interesting to note that all COVID-19 related deaths accounted for 10% of total deaths by age group, which means something else was also killing 10 times as many Americans as COVID. When Dr Kessler says, "COVID Kills", he should probably be saying, COVID kills, in conjunction with Pneumonia and/or Influenza, since that's what their own data shows.

Edit:

I know that any number of viruses or bacteria can cause Pneumonia, my point is, prior to COVID-19, what were we doing about that?

What medications do we have to clear the pus and inflammation out of a patient's lungs, with or without COVID-19?

Everything goes downhill fast when this happens, even without COVID-19, so what the hell did they give President Trump to blow this crap out of his lungs in record time and why the hell aren't they pumping people full of that stuff whenever the inflammation starts up, and before they have to put them on a ventilator, which is tantamount to the kiss of death for anyone on one for more than a couple of days.

Keep the congestion out of their lungs, the virus will run its course, the immune system will do what's been designed to do in nearly all cases, and they'll live.

Last edited by kbd512 (2020-10-12 13:52:46)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-12 16:21:49

The Pneumonia shot is a preventative vaccine and not a cure. typically anti bsaterials are given such as th zythromicyn.
There is also the anti vaxers that say whew i get one i get sick so why would i do that.

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions- … ation.html

While pneumococcal disease is often mild, it can sometimes have serious and even deadly repercussions for those 65 years or older — particularly when the bacteria that causes it invade the lungs, causing pneumonia.

Walgreens specially trained pharmacists know which flu shot is right for you based on your age and health history

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Calliban · 2020-10-14 10:06:14

SpaceNut wrote:

The use of masks have been proven effective and COVID-19 cases in Arizona spiked 151% after a statewide stay-at-home order expired and dropped 75% following local mask mandates, a new report says. While President is still infectious out in the public....
A promising coronavirus cure just failed in drug large-scale clinical trial from the UK.
The lopinavir-ritonavir combo joins the list of other promising drugs that were not effective against coronavirus. Hydroxychloroquine is the most prominent example and tocilizumab (Actemra) is another.

People singing praises for mandatory masks and lock downs need to explain how it is that Sweden, with no lock down or mandatory mask policy, managed to weather the pandemic with mortality rates lower than those of the UK and US. Now apparently, they have the lowest mortality rate in Europe with no evidence of a second wave in Sweden.
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/swedi … ic-fatigue

I strongly suspect that authoritarian coronavirus controls are being put in place for other reasons. The left just love to control people don't they?

Last edited by Calliban (2020-10-14 10:08:48)

Void · 2020-10-14 12:20:49

I like to mostly avoid the political.

However, even though just now in the USA, the so called "Left" seems the apparent problem, I have looked at the situation from another view.

In my opinion there are gradients of people. The primary polarity, is the degree of responsibility that an individual will display, if unregulated by force. For instance in a population where the people willingly do what is right for the whole and for themselves when the picture of reality is explained, then there is much less chance of dominating types taking undue control.

In WWII, one of the reasons the Soviets were willing to try a deal with the NAZI, was their communist theory had it that a Fascist was on the road to becoming a communist. Conversely, it often appears that a communist society moving towards representative government will often turn Fascist, I have read.

My theory is that civilization itself tends to breed "Types". It makes no sense to be of an dictator type, if you have no country to dictate to. But in my opinion of natural selection, I see the possibility that these types if given an organized society to take control of will interbreed with each other, creating a ruler type. With no other skills really than how to control groups of people. And they probably tend to be jealous of power, so technological success, will cause them to seize control of that to the extent that they can, and to also kick down the stairs any people who demonstrate power through technological skills.

The feedback results, in general would then be tyrant types, and peasant types. And in such a society it would be not wise for a peasant type to attract the anger and jealousy of the tyrant types. This could be particularly prominent in old societies where farming and cities were the patterns, where most were peasant farmers, and a few lived in castles.

So, where a skilled population was generalist enough to understand how to build to beginnings of a civilization, and they would be very inventive and yes technological, with age, a tyrant type could seize control, destroy the technological abilities, and reduce the capabilities of the servant population.

If you will look at a map of the world, the pattern generally bears that out. The more prosperous places do not allow tyrants to rule completely. The older places of "Civilization" have a very hard time breaking the pattern.

In the USA, we have ingested and probably self generated tyrant behaviors to an excessive level. We also see them trying to dumb down the general population, to better control them.

The point is if you only dislike Left or Right, you let one of the groups pass under the radar.

I don't think the USA is beyond repair at this point. But we are just going though a shake out, to figure out somehow how to get the tyrant types to go away and stop bothering us.

I do agree, Sweden looks good just now. I believe that a history of coping with a climate where co-operation offers more benefits than competition, helps. Cold climate, you have to co-operate a bit more. For co-operation, you have to be responsible and trustable.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-10-14 12:34:36)

Terraformer · 2020-10-14 12:55:02

We're in lockdown again in the north of England.

I fucking hate it, and the man responsible. It's really taking a toll on my mental health, but the politicians here just don't care about that. They're focused on the human cost of COVID alone, not the human cost of lockdown. Saving perhaps weeks of life expectancy (the average life-years lost per COVID death is 5-10 years, and it would kill perhaps 0.5% of the population *if everyone got it* - shielding the vulnerable and herd immunity would bring this down massively) without considering that deaths of despair could easily take *months* off the life expectancy.

Our government's plan is, as far as anyone can tell, to lock down until a vaccine appears. No-one has ever approached a pandemic in the past with such a strategy. It's not even obvious that a vaccine would help - they're telling us a positive antibody test doesn't mean we're immune, but that rules out vaccination too.

I'd rather just go with the Swedish model at this point and bin the masks, and I was telling people in February to wear them. But better no strategy than this shit.

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