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#1451 2023-10-22 16:24:47

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,725

Re: Large scale colonization ship

recent news articles these past months seem to admit humanity should have already should have tested an artificial gravity station

We Don't Know Enough About the Biomedical Challenges of Deep Space Exploration
https://www.universetoday.com/163469/we … ploration/

“First, we are expecting that lunar gravity could impair a number of functions in a way that looks quite differently from that investigated on board of the ISS, where the body is fluctuating [being in] free fall,” Bizzarri said. “How different g values can impair biological functions still awaits a proper model of investigation.”


'most significant challenge is dealing with the effects of weightlessness or reduced gravity.'

Perhaps the best or easiest method would be having devices to allow exercises in an artificial gravity condition.

Simplified equations for object trajectories in rotating space habitats and space juggling
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41526-023-00328-6

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#1452 2023-10-22 19:10:37

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,471

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For RobertDyck ....

You attended the Mars Society convention, and appear to have become distracted by War, to the extent you created a topic on the subject.

War is something you cannot do anything about, so (from my perspective) it is a waste of your time, and a waste of everyone's time.

Please put the entire issue in a safe, secure location, and return to developing Large Ship.

(th)

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#1453 2023-10-22 19:51:17

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,753
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

Mars_B4_Moon,
You're right. It's incredibly frustrating that it was a principal purpose of ISS. The Centrifuge Accommodation Module was designed for that, built, and ready to launch. It was never launched, only one more Shuttle launch would have been required. There was an external tank and pair of solid rocket boosters, but President Obama didn't want to risk it. He wanted at least one Shuttle on standby as a rescue vehicle, and there wouldn't be for the last one. If something did go wrong, they could shelter in ISS and Russia could send a Soyuz. But he didn't want to rely on the Russians.

I have posted before that new technology could launch it. Falcon Heavy could launch it into orbit, and a service module from a Cygnus cargo ship could rendezvous with ISS. Then just as a normal Cygnus mission, the station's arm could grab it and berth to ISS.

The Centrifuge Module is currently on display outdoors in the parking lot of the Japanese space agency in Tokyo. It may need some cleaning before launch, but it's still there.

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#1454 2023-11-13 05:48:33

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,753
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

With all the StarLink satellites, I keep thinking about aerocapture. That's a special form of aerobraking. With aerocapture, the ship approaches the planet at full interplanetary speed. The ship skims the upper atmosphere to slow down. The ship must slow down enough to enter orbit. All those satellites in Low Earth Orbit will be a problem because the Large Ship could plow through them like a snow plow. The following link is a YouTube video clip just 5 minutes long. Actually 4 minutes and 57 seconds. From the movie "2010: The Year We Made Contact". The movie was produced in 1984, events were supposed to be in 2010. They seriously expected we would have a large ship with a rotating section for artificial gravity and hibernation, able to travel all the way to Jupiter. What we actually have is sad. The movie was a sequel to "2001: A Space Odyssey". In this movie the Russians build a ship to travel to Jupiter, an American scientist is brought along to revive the American ship left orbiting Jupiter in the first movie. In the movie Russia and America work cooperatively, but something happened causing geopoliticial tension. Astronauts/cosmonauts try to work together even though their politicians are acting like asses. At least they got that part right. Click image for video.
FFofMuWXIAMCd7s.png

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#1455 2023-12-13 09:00:14

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,471

Re: Large scale colonization ship

Here's a report that might fit into the Large Ship scenario ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 50#p217150

(th)

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#1456 2024-01-05 03:13:41

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,753
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

I found this floor plan for berthing compartments onboard a Ford class carrier. So what do you guys think of packing passengers as tightly as sailors on a US navy ship?
15989948901_353883bf6a_o.jpg
I said standard cabins would be per pressure subcompartment: 4 on the left of the corridor, 4 on the right. Outboard cabins have a window, inboard cabins do not but do have a 4k TV with high-def camera outside. Passengers could select which camera they want to view. Standard price per cabin, regardless how many passengers. Most dense is based on 3rd class of the Titanic, but with an ensuite bathroom the size of an airline bathroom.

Navy version: no ensuite bathroom. No drawers under lower bunk, but under mattress storage is retained. Loser bunk is right on the floor. That is storage is on the floor, mattress pad is on that. 3 bunks high. Nimitz class bunks have 17 inches (17") from top of mattress to bottom of bunk above, with 3" thick mattress. Our ship could have 18.75". Not much difference, you still couldn't sit up in bed. Ford carrier berth is 77.5" x 27.5". Nimitz berths are 72" x 30". I said our ship will have berths based on civilian "single" beds: 75" x 30". With 2 beds along the left wall, 2 on the right, and 3 bunks/berths/racks high, that's 12 racks per cabin. Nimitz carriers had a lounge for each berthing compartment but Ford carriers don't. In navy configuration 2 of the 8 cabins in a pressure subcompartment would be bathroom, total 6 toilets, 6 sinks, 4 showers.

Civilian 3rd class has 6 passengers x 8 cabins = 48 passengers. Navy version has 12 crew x 6 cabins = 72. Civilian version has 1 toilet for every 6 passengers. Navy version has 1 toilet for every 12 crew, and 1 shower for every 18.

Tom expressed concern over how crowded 3rd class cabins are. I said cabins would be configured to passenger requirements. Navy configuration would have to be an entire subcompartment. Would anyone want this?

::Edit:: I said civilian 3rd class has 2 rows of drawers under the lower bunk; one row for passenger in the upper bunk, one for lower. Navy version has no drawers. Instead navy version has lockers. Instead of night stands at the end of the aisle, navy version has lockers. 3 lockers wide x 4 high, so every crew member gets one. Each locker 10" wide x 23.5" high, assuming sheet metal with negligible thickness walls. If you want to be picky, wall thickness takes away from those dimensions. Locker depth? Locker is beside bunks farthest from the door; individuals have to be able to get in and out of their bunk.

These lockers would cover the window. Civilian 3rd class inboard cabins have no window, but have a wall mounted 4k TV instead. But navy version covers all wall surfaces, no room for a TV. However, Wifi enables tablets, laptop computers, and smartphones.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2024-01-05 12:30:43)

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#1457 2024-01-05 11:25:39

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 5,385
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

You can have tight sleeping quarters if you have lots of room to live somewhere else.  Might not be popular,  but it is doable.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1458 2024-01-05 14:02:28

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,471

Re: Large scale colonization ship

For GW Johnson re #1457

Thanks for the reminder that human beings need some room to enjoy or at least endure away from the bunk space. 

It is good to see Large Ship back in the active list!

I'd very much like to see this topic back in growth mode. We don''t need rapid growth followed by a pause ... steady slow growth is what this topic needs.

(th)

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#1459 2024-01-05 14:42:42

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,753
Website

Re: Large scale colonization ship

A friend is trying to start a business. He wants me on his board of directors. He's counting on me for technology projects. He gave me a salary offer, and it's good. However, that depends on his financing coming through. A guy in California has been promising financing "any day now". Yesterday my friend called me, said his contact has money. He will fly to California to file documents to open a mining corporation. He's a retired miner. The project is to re-open a gold mine. It was closed when drop in gold price made the mine no longer profitable. Now that gold prices have increased, they want to purchase the mine and restart mining. Due to the time involved, I'm skeptical of the guy promising money. If it does come through, great! But I'm not counting on it.

The guy I spoke with at Red River College about students doing 3D graphics has not called me back. He said I would have to talk to him in the spring for students to work on this starting in the fall.

Robert Zubrin is skeptical of a chloroplast oxygen generator. His new Mars Institute will develop technologies for Mars, with a focus on biotech and applications on Earth. He thinks chemical synthesis of food will be more efficient than nature. I'm skeptical of that. Chemical synthesis would produce something I wouldn't want to eat. And photosynthesis of isolated chloroplasts in an environment with elevated CO2 is more efficient than he thinks. I should send a formal proposal but already have a negative bias from Dr Zubrin.

My girlfriend insists I spend every day at her apartment and refuses to move into my house. So I'm away from my computer most days. It has resulted in many arguments. I don't know how to deal with that. I can't do serious work on a smartphone.

Work has been sparse. 5 days work in November, plus one assignment that took me 10 minutes but billed at 3 hours. No work at all in December, and the next scheduled assignment is March, over Easter weekend.

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#1460 2024-01-05 18:29:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,639

Re: Large scale colonization ship

There are two minds of thought in this, and crew should have a smaller cabin as they are actively no in them as much as those going for other activity where normal operations would be interfered with by having so many in the way other than times that allow them to go to meals and other such smaller activities as deemed needed.

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