Large scale colonization ship

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-30 08:48:28

For RobertDyck re topic ...

There is still time for you to revise one or two of the specifications you set out at the beginning of this topic....

One I'd invite review is the number of personnel to be carried for two years (*) in a volume constrained by the over arching specifications of 19 meters width and 238 meters circumference.

With a revised cabin count of 252, I'd like to suggest you consider allocating no more than one person to a cabin of the standard size.

I bring this up because an exercise program which offers passengers and crew the opportunity to run laps in the two corridors will allow for some reasonable maximum number of participants, assuming the time is allocated 24 hours per "day", and the participants run at different speeds.

If a person wants to try to set a speed record, or a flight time record (by running fast enough to achieve zero simulated gravity), or on the other hand, to try to set a new record for amount of simulated gravity generated by running with the spin, they would need to have the corridor entirely free for their use.

If a cohort is willing to run at some agreed pace, then as many as 100 persons could occupy a corridor simultaneously, but that degree of packing would be a real challenge to deal with.

I suppose there could be a competition to see how many runners could be in motion at one time. That could conceivably bring ** everyone ** into motion, if both corridors are in use.

In any case, trying to plan activity like this for more than (about) 250 people is going to be a challenge.

(*) The entire voyage **must** anticipate a wave-off at Mars. It is impossible for anyone to guarantee a safe arrival at Mars. The voyage must be designed from the outset to provide a minimum of an acceptable experience for everyone in the event of a wave-off. Quark and his friends are going to expect every reasonable step will be taken to minimize losses in the event of various failure modes.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-30 09:38:12

For RobertDyck and all fans of the Large Scale Ship topic:

Here is an update to the Rim Habitat layout (as am interpreting specifications provided by RobertDyck) ...

This version includes Cabin Numbers (as illustrated by the hotel floor layout in an earlier post).

The corridors are shown as unobstructed, for fire safety reasons, and to accommodate long distance runners who will be able to achieve free flight if they can match the rotation rate of the vessel.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-09-30 11:52:48

You want all standard cabins? No luxury cabins at all? The floor layout is in post #363. Detail examples of luxury cabins are in post #357. Standard cabins are 2.4m wide x 4.0m long, with a washroom/bathroom/restroom that has a toilet, sink, and shower stall. Standard cabins can be fitted with either 3 bunk beds for a total of 6 bunks, or a queen-size Murphy bed. Luxury cabins are larger; I said exactly 8 x width circumferentially, and 2 x across the rim. That means 19.2m circumferentially, and 8.0m across the rim. With 2 Luxury cabins across the rim, that means just one corridor between them. With exactly two Luxury suites on the entire ship, that means they're located across the corridor from each other. The corridor is twice the width of corridors for standard cabins, because there's just one corridor. Operable wall partitions are the technical name for portable walls hanging from a track in the ceiling. Luxury suites will have these so they can be divided. Instead of 19.2m circumferentially, they can be divided in half. Two examples I posted from cruise ships were "4-Bedroom Presidential Family Suite" or "Royal Suite". Each of these take an entire luxury cabin. Dividing a luxury cabin in two, it gives you a pair of "Owner's Suites". Or divide a luxury cabin into 4 "Premium suites". Or divide a luxury cabin into 8 "Club cabins". Or mix-and-match: one luxury suite could be divided into an "Owner's Suite" plus one "Premium Suite", plus 2 "Club cabins". All of these luxury cabins are 8.0m across the rim, so they all have a window at one end, and door to the corridor at the other.

One reason luxury cabins have a corridor 3.0m wide instead of 1.5m wide, is there's just one corridor. The other reason is any operable wall partitions not used will be turned 90° and stored in the corridor. That means a stack of wall partition sections stacked against the corridor wall. This will consume some of the width of the corridor. I suppose wall partition sections could be removed, stored in the same space station in Earth orbit where spare furniture is stored. But that doesn't change the fact that two luxury cabins are 8.0m each, standard cabins 4.0m each, so only two luxury cabins across. So the one luxury corridor is the width of both standard cabin corridors.

images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT0pNlXfPnAYhgO_310rQh3KKPik-K24ly08A&usqp=CAU

My first job when I was 18 was setup crew for the Winnipeg Convention Center. One task was setting up portable walls. The walls on the 1st & 2nd floors had a leaver in the edge of the wall partition that extended a post down from the bottom edge of the wall into a hole in the floor. This secured the wall in place; leaning against the wall wouldn't cause it to swing into the next room, it felt like a solid wall. The bottom edge of the portable wall had something that extended down with the post, so the wall edge pressed against the carpet. This helped with keep sound separated from one room to the next (acoustic) and meant you couldn't see light under the wall into the next room. It doesn't "feel" like a wall if you can see under it into the net room. The drop edge would lift when the post were retracted, so the portable wall would slide smoothly on the ceiling tracks.

RobertDyck · 2020-09-30 12:20:30

Also realize, for safety the corridors for standard cabins have a pressure door every 4 cabins. The pressure door is located at the wall between cabins. I mentioned separating cabins into sections with 4 cabins x 4 cabins. Normally these pressure doors stay fully open, but if there's a hull puncture causing a pressure leak, the compromised section can be sealed off.
kFu65wI.jpg?1
Pressure door could be pocket door or conventional with hinges. A pocket door could slide in a track in the floor that could seal shut. But a pocket door requires a pocket in the wall of a cabin, taking space from a cabin that's already small. A swing door would be against a corridor wall when open, but requires a something to seal against. Military aircraft carriers have a rather high lip. We should be able to do better. Ours must hold air pressure, not water, and doesn't have to deal with an explosion from a torpedo.

::Edit:: Aircraft carrier USS Hornet museum.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-30 12:57:54

For RobertDyck re #404

Nice diagram and neat picture!

The purpose of the layout provided in a recent post and in predecessors, is to try to give readers of this topic a sense of what you might have in mind.

The presentation of cabins is sufficient to show how space would be allocated (assuming I understand your vision which is NOT guaranteed).

One impression I am coming away with from my analysis is that the size of the complement of the vessel you are proposing would be better if it were limited to about 256 people or so, with a full cabin allocated to each.

Design of the safety features should provide for convenient access to every area as rapidly as possible.

Insuring the corridors are open for the entire circumference is a design decision that should not be given up lightly.

Fortunately, before Quark and his friends provide funding, your design will be given close attention. Your preparation for that inspection will go a long way toward securing a favorable review.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-09-30 13:31:18

Uhh, no. Not one person per cabin. Economy cabins will have 6 bunks per cabin, and single cabins will have a queen-size Murphy bed. That bed can sleep two people; presumably a couple.

Pressure doors will be open under normal conditions. If there's a pressure leak such as a fist size meteorite punching a whole in the hull, an alarm will sound in that section (and the bridge), with some sort of lights in the section to be evacuated. Life support in a box on the roof will have the compressor for air conditioning for that one section, and water filtration to process grey water into potable water. That same life support box on the roof will have pressure tanks of air to repressurize the section. So pressure doors can remain open long enough for passengers to get out. Once pressure has dropped so much that there's danger of decompressing the rest of the ship, pressure doors will close and seal automatically.

Note: I'm calling the drawing in post #404 one section. It is subdivided into two. One life support box on the roof supports the whole section. One water wall on the sunward hull that provides radiation shielding for the whole section, as well as water reservoir. So if the aft (sunward) subsection is punctured, then only that subsection is sealed off. However, air conditioning and water for the whole section is compromised. A water transfer pipe along each corridor will allow water to be transferred between sections. This could allow a forward subsection to get water for it's oxygen generation system, even though it's water reservoir (water wall) is frozen solid due to decompression. Solenoid valves can close off a water pipe into a compromised subsection. One solenoid valve on each side of a pressure bulkhead.

Also, both sides of the pressure doorway will have additional seals around the door. Normally nothing is attached to these additional seals. A portable airlock made of heavy duty transparent plastic sheet can be attached and sealed to that. So if a subsection is sealed off with a passenger still inside, crew can rush to that location with a portable airlock. The airlock is basically a heavy duty plastic bag. The plastic bag airlock will seal against that seal round the pressure door. The plastic bag airlock will have cords attached, at least one to each corner, with anchors on corridor walls designed to secure those cords. The plastic bag airlock will have a plastic sheet door; perhaps opened with a zipper. Apollo spacesuits closed with a zipper; they had a rubber seal inside the suit, the zipper pulled the fabric of the suit closed and the rubber seals were attached to the inside of the suit fabric so closing the zipper caused the two rubber seals to press against each other. Something like that or different? Anyway, a rescue worker could then unzip the plastic sheet door, get into the plastic bag airlock, zip the door closed. Then use air pumps to decompress the airlock. Once decompressed, the plastic bag will try to collapse on itself. The cords anchored to the wall will hold the plastic bag airlock, preventing it from collapsing on the worker. Then the corridor pressure door can be opened, allowing the worker to set in. Obviously the worker must be wearing a spacesuit. The rescue worker can find the passenger, quickly carry him/her to the airlock. Once in the airlock, close the corridor pressure door, re-pressurize the plastic bag airlock, and unzip the plastic sheet door to get out. Then the passenger can be rushed to the infirmary so the doctor can treat him/her.

The point of the portable airlock is that pressure doors are just a door, not a whole airlock every 4th cabin. Just a pressure door (aka hatch). But a portable airlock can be attached for an emergency. Since the section on either side of the door could suffer decompression, the airlock must be able to attach to either side.

To ensure the pressure door doesn't tear open the plastic bag airlock, I think it would be better if the pressure door is a pocket door. That means a pocket in the wall for the door to slide into. That pocket could be integrated with the washroom, so it doesn't take space from the main cabin. So that means the cabin on either side of the pressure door will have it's washroom on that side (pressure bulkhead side).

RobertDyck · 2020-09-30 21:46:38

I was going to draw the other side of Luxury cabins. Perhaps a themed dining room and the bar. Something substantial to transition from 1 corridor back to two. And something passengers from the Luxury cabins would appreciate, since it's close to those cabins. Another dining room makes since when close to a kitchen.

Luxury cabins would have large windows. As I explained, windows would have two panes filled with mineral oil. So that much less space for water wall, so smaller water reservoir. Give the dining room a water wall, the bar will be in its shadow. This will provide sufficient water for luxury cabins. This will provide continuous radiation shielding from standard cabins to the right of the spoke, to standard cabins on the left. So all this space, and all these facilities usable during an SPE. Elevator would be deactivated, and stairs to the roof closed off, so greenhouse and observation deck closed, but all main ring facilities will remain open.

This still leaves the larger kitchen, main dining room, gym, laundry, and workshop (janitorial/engineering). And if dining facilities are split into themed rooms, then any other dining room(s). This gives something to work with around the elevator for the remaining spokes.

RobertDyck · 2020-10-01 07:18:43

Compare to the SS City of New York. That ship was launched in 1888, broken up in 1923.
Displacement: 17,270 tons (17,550 tonnes)
or 10,508 "Gross Register Tons". Wikipedia has a description what GRT means. Deck plans dated 1908 say 10,799 tons.
Length: 560 ft (170 m)
Beam: 63 ft (19 m)
Complement: 1740 passengers
Crew: 362 Officers and crew

I proposed fewer crew because our ship would have fewer passengers. And 21st century automation. For one the entire department of "donkey men" is not needed; they shovelled coal into the boiler of the steam engine. Mail sorting is not needed, we have smartphones with text messages and email. Laundry is simpler with automatic washing machines. We don't need a library, we have laptop computers and smartphones that can access an onboard server. And certainly don't need a smoking room.

deck plans:

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-01 11:02:50

For those who may be following this topic, here is an updated view of how the Rim Habitat might look if accommodations were provided as a uniform set of economy cabins. The design by RobertDyck will certainly look different. This is a layout against which the reader can compare updates by RobertDyck.

Updated layout of Circle Y Rim Habitat showing all Economy Cabins

What allows this version to provide value is the use of uniform dimensions. Each square is one meter on a side. The corridors are shown as specified at 1.5 meters. Width of the Habitat is 19 meters. Circumference (and therefore length) is 238 meters. Cabins are 1 meters wide and 4 meters long.

Edit#1 ... Cabins are supposed to be 2.4 meters wide, but I set them at 1 meter to begin with, and then forgot to update them.

Since the circumference of the Rim Habitat is 238 meters, and if 252 cabins are desired, and if there are 4 cabins in a row, then there would be 63 rows.

238 / 63 is 3.7. 63 x 2.4 is 151.2 ... I'll have to recreate the layout using the correct cabin width of 2.4 meters. Free space will decrease to 86 meters.

This versions includes icons for the three spokes, which open above.

Page 1 Cabins 1 to 20

Page 2 Cabins 21 to 80

Page 3 Cabins 81 to 108

Page 4 Cabins 109 to 164

Page 5 Cabins 165 to 196

Page 6 Cabins 197 to 252

Edit#1 ... the layout shown above is in need of correction. The cabins shown are only 1 meter wide. the correct width is 2.4 meters.

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-10-01 16:56:14

Sewage processing will be a thing. Toilets dry and grind feces to powder. That powder transported through pipes with blown air for disposal. Augers ensure the powder keeps moving. It'll have to be collected some where. Packaged for disposal on arrival at a planet.

Black water is concentrated dirt, soap, shampoo, hair oil, skin oil, filtered out by life support by cabins. That will have to be packaged as well.

More dramatically, concentrated urine from cabin life support will have to be treated to turn it into rich nitrogen fertilizer for hydroponics. All this will require space for equipment

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-01 18:53:01

For RobertDyck re #410

Keep up the good work << grin >>

***
I've recalculated the layout, with cabins properly sized, but I'm holding off on uploading in hopes of finding a way to insert little people icons into the png images.

I do most of my work in Ubuntu, and have tried (at last count about 8) programs. None seem to be set up to insert a small image into a larger one.

The only package that came close abended when I forced the issue. In Ubuntu, program crashes announce themselves by just going away.

I do have Windows 10 and Windows 7 available if a reader of this post has a suggestion for something to try.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-03 11:23:18

Here is a first attempt to insert "people" into the Spreadsheet layout of Circle Y Habitat Rim ...

Updated Section of Ship layout with a few "people"

The tool that allowed the insertion is Inkscape. It generates a "layer" separate from the spreadsheet image layer.

The "people" icons are deployed on the second layer, and the combination is written out as a png file.

That png file is accepted by imgur.com, so it can be deployed here.

There would appear to be no technical issues standing in the way of showing how the proposed 1000 passenger and 60 crew member manifest would look.

However, there ** is ** the small matter of time ... at present, the only method I know about to insert the icons is manually, using a copy and paste operation.

Edit#1 (note): The example above is from the set of images that are out of scale for cabin width. Cabins are specified as 2.4 meters wide, but in the image above they are just 1 meter in width. A correction version is ready to upload, but I am thinking of populating it with 1060 person icons. Unless I find a way of automating that process, I would expect it to take a week or more, entering (pasting) all those icons in various locations.

Edit#2: The sequence now consists of 15 images, so there would be about 74 icons per image, with 24 icons allocated to the last image.

With a (tentative) allocation of four bunks per cabin, and 252 cabins, to accommodate a complement of 1060 people, there would be hot bunking needed.

This would be recognizable to military veterans, so it should not be a problem for crew who would select themselves to apply for duty on an Interplanetary Passenger vessel.

Given a target of 1060 passengers and crew, and a (proposed) cabin count of 252 (at 4 bunks per cabin) there would be 1008 bunks.

Some passengers would get to hot bunk if the ship is fully booked.

A representative distribution would be:
240 cabins with 4 passengers each >> 960 normal - 24 hour assignment to a bunk
11 cabins with 8 personnel assigned: passengers and crew sharing the space in 12 hour shifts (88 people (passengers and crew))
1 cabin with 12 crew members sharing the space in three 8 hour shifts (12)

Edit#3: Minor text adjustment

(th)

Walt Nilsson · 2020-10-03 16:05:37

Greetings, I have just joined Rob, The New Mars Form, appreciations, great discussions. . .

Oldfart1939 · 2020-10-03 16:10:02

Welcome aboard the forum, and it's band of merry pranksters.

SpaceNut · 2020-10-03 17:40:20

Welcome to Newmars Walt Nilsson, I hope you find it more than interesting and find ways to pitch in. The help does not need to be engineering level just ask questions sometimes help to bring an idea even further.

RobertDyck · 2020-10-04 01:04:55

High Walt. Sorry I wasn't able to meet you Saturday. Had work. Glad you joined our forum.

Current working design:
15 pressure compartments, each with 16 standard cabins for passengers. One more pressure compartment with 16 standard cabins for crew. One pressure compartment with 2 luxury cabins.

Standard cabins are 2.4 metres wide from centre-of-wall to centre-of-wall. So a pressure section with 4 cabins across is 4 x 2.4 = 9.6 metres of circumference. There are 16 pressure sections so 16 x 9.6 = 153.6 metres. Luxury cabins are 8 x 2.4 = 19.2 metres of circumference. Radius from centre of rotation to surface of floor is 37.6992 meters, circumference is Pi x D = 236.871 metres. So that leaves 236.871 - 153.6 - 19.2 = 64.071 metres of circumference for everything else. Realize this is mostly cabins.

Dining: 4,000 sq.ft (400 seats @ 10 sq.ft)
Fine Dining: 300 sq.ft (20 seats @ 15 sq.ft)
Kitchen: 2,100 sq.ft (5 sq.ft per dining room seat)
Gym: 4,000 sq.ft
Laundry: 403 sq.ft
Infirmary: 260 sq.ft
Bridge: 200 sq.ft

3 elevators, one per spoke. 3.19512m diameter for the shaft, that's 8.018m² each. With 3 elevators that's 24.054m².

Stairs to greenhouse or observation deck on the roof: assume one staircase per spoke. 7.5 inch rise per 10 inch treads. 2.4 metre high, 0.8m wide. Ratio means 3.2m long staircase. 3.2m x 0.8m = 2.56m² each. 3 staircases = 7.68m².

I'm trying to fit half a pressure compartment with more standard passenger cabins.

So we have 64.071 metres of circumference for everything other than cabins. With 19 metres width: 64.071 x 19 = 1217.349m². Then subtract the half compartment: 9.6 x (19 / 2) = 91.2m². Then subtract elevators and staircases; that leaves 1094.415m². Other areas are in square feet so convert: 11,780.185019 sq.ft. Subtracting above areas in square feet, we're left with 517.185019 sq.ft. This is total area for corridors (not cabin), lounge/bar/club, workshop (janitorial/engineering).

I mentioned sewage. Storage of sewage (powdered feces) can be done in zero-G hub. However, any processing that requires gravity must be in the workshop (janitorial/engineering).

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-04 06:14:49

For RobertDyck re #416

SearchTerm:Specifications Large Ship As Of 2020/10/03 http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 47#p172847

Nice to see this summary of the vision! Glad to see a new addition to your volunteer support team.

****

I'd like to suggest a major change of focus .... Your chances of securing funding will improve if you offer your design as a model for a test article.

The method of development demonstrated by Elon Musk right now with his Starship enterprise, and the similar step-by-step developments by many others on Earth right now, provide an example of how your vision might unfold.

In a recent post, Oldfart1939 called attention to the fact that we humans have no experience with extended periods of time at Mars gravity. It would seem (to me at least) quite feasible for you to design your vehicle to be assembled in LEO and occupied by 1060 willing volunteers for two years, to see if your design can hold up to the demands of a real population for that long.

By eliminating the need to worry about propulsion (except for station keeping in LEO) you will have concentrated the attention of your team on the life support and psychological support problem to be solved before humans send a crew of that size to Mars.

While the vehicle is in orbit, proving (or showing failure) the elements of the design for life support, the requirements for pointing and pushing can be addressed, and tested (incrementally) with the working test article.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-04 08:54:24

The scale of tonnage and pieces are the hurtling block to create in orbit with the materials to build it is made difficult due to earth's gravity well.

If more of the building of it came from the moon it would cheat the mass problem as well as the size as the moon doesn't have the problems created by earth's atmospheric drag.

RobertDyck · 2020-10-04 10:01:04

Walt suggested writing a science fiction book. At least for the book, I'm considering the corporation mine asteroids for precious metals. Near Earth Asteroids are easiest to reach. A metal asteroid at least 1km diameter. Robot mining, no humans on the asteroid. Use the Mond process to extract ferrous metals: nickel, iron, cobalt, one at a time in that order. It would produce 99.9% pure single metal. Then use a modified Mond process to extract platinum group metals, one metal at a time. The Mond process doesn't work on gold and silver, so a more traditional method is required for them. Extract chrome and molybdenum from the left-overs. Make inconel 617 from nickel, chrome, cobalt, molybdenum, aluminum, carbon. A metal asteroid won't have aluminum or carbon. Make a heat shield of inconel using a 2 part mould. Make a back shell of the same metal with another 2 part mould. Fill the back shell with precious metal bullion, attach the heat shield with an arc welder. A robot spacecraft would carry the aeroshell to Earth, aim for a desert and just drop it. No parachute. No control rockets. Just 3 tonnes of metal falling out of the sky. It'll crack open and half embed itself in the sand, but that's Ok. A helicopter with armed guards will rush to the crash site to ensure no one steals any. A flat bed truck with truck crane will pick it up.

This leaves copious quantities of iron and nickel left over. Some nickel and chrome will be consumed for aeroshells, but a lot will be left over. Make 300 series stainless steel; just iron, nickel, chrome, carbon. 300 series stainless is what Elon is using for Starship; cryogenic temperatures make it even stronger. Transport steel plate to Earth orbit. A rolling mill will have to be set up in Earth orbit. One reason for making the ship's hull out of stainless steel is the metal won't be transported from Earth.

GW Johnson · 2020-10-04 10:44:47

Robert:

Here's an odd suggestion: use the sewage as valuable cargo to Mars. It does not necessarily need to be dried and powdered to do that. The organisms, the carbon-bearing chemistry, the water, the fixed nitrogen, are all incredibly valuable to create soil capable of growing plants on Mars.

Shipping it as wet wastes and wastewater requires bigger storage tanks, but these can serve as radiation shadow shields. Just locate them where they can serve that dual function. Doesn't matter whether it freezes or not. As long as you don't let it burst the tank.

Viewing this as cargo generated along the way, you want those tanks engineered to be easily-interchangeable items, so that the cargo is easily ferried down with the people at Mars. Just undock the full ones, and dock the empties.

There would not be a similar operation at Earth. Tanks filled during the return trip just wait for the next arrival at Mars. Sewage is then a one-way export to Mars, where it will be desperately needed.

Once on the surface, you combine the sewage with sifted regolith to make soil. You must sift out the rocks, leaving only sand and dust to form the dirt. You may need to wash-out the salts and perchlorates, but that does not require potable water. Remember, much of the sewage is just dirty water. You already have much of what you need, if you do not dry and powder the sewage.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-10-04 11:04:09)

RobertDyck · 2020-10-04 12:18:15

Civilian ship from Battlestar Galactica reboot. Was in the original show as well, although slightly different graphic.

::Edit:: Point is this is similar to what I propose. Of course it isn't exactly the same. The long narrow protrusion from the hub is not the aft drive section, it's the front. An alternate angle shows the aft drive section. And of course this ship has a "jump drive" that can some how instantaneously jump across multiple light years, without any adequate explanation how. Our ship is based on real physics.

RobertDyck · 2020-10-04 12:39:17

For the book, I want to name the ship Tiu. That's the Old English name for Mars, before invasion by Rome. Related to Norse god Tyr. Logo is spelled in Anglo-Saxon runes: ᛏᛁᚢ

An alternate spelling is Tiw; Anglo-Saxon runes would be: ᛏᛁᚹ. However, people would find it easy to understand that the Anglo-Saxon rune "ᚢ" represents "u", but would have difficulty understanding that the rune "ᚹ" is pronounced as the modern letter "w".

Forrest White · 2020-10-05 03:42:55

The rooms in the ship seem like a dormitory. Will people live in those rooms on Mars or there will be another building for a living?

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-05 06:26:00

For GW Johnson re #420 - Nice contribution to the topic! SearchTerm:ToiletWaste Large Ship

It seems to me that history supports your proposition. The system developed can be deployed on Mars without change.

For RobertDyck re #421 ... Nice Graphic! May I call your attention to the girders which carry force from the center section to the ring? Those are what I was suggested a few posts back. Without those the fragile spoke passageways will be ripped out effortlessly by the first application of main engine thrust.

For Forrest White re #423 ... Thanks for taking a look at the Large Ship topic. This forum has been running for nearly 20 years, and nearly every post is available to study. A useful tool to begin your study is the Search window at the top of the first page.

As a point of etiquette ... it is desirable to keep topics focused. It is incredibly easy to lead a topic off to a place having nothing to do with the topic.

Your question about how folks will live on Mars is addressed in multiple other topics.

If you'd like to contribute to the Large Ship topic, please try to ask questions or make contributions that are specifically intended to help RobertDyck to carry the topic forward.

For Forrest White re topic Large Ship ... If you are interested in this topic, please consider starting from the first post and reading (and taking notes) from the beginning. By doing this, you will increase your value to the team effort here, because you will have built up knowledge of how the project is developing, and you will save others time that would be needed to bring you up to speed.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-05 11:05:54

For RobertDyck .... re book suggestion from Walt ...

Here is a title that popped up when I asked Google for assistance finding examples of books on operations of large ships.

This button opens a dialog that displays additional images for this product with the option to zoom in or out.Operations Manual: Us Super Carrier Operations Manual: All Makes and Models * Insights Into the Design, Departments, Flight Operations and Daily Life of the Us Navy's Greatest Warships (Hardcover)
Operations Manual: Us Super Carrier Operations Manual: All Makes and Models * Insights Into the Design, Departments, Flight Operations and Daily Life of the Us Navy's Greatest Warships (Hardcover)
Report incorrect product information
Chris McNab; Patrick Bunce
Operations Manual: Us Super Carrier Operations Manual: All Makes and Models * Insights Into the Design, Departments, Flight Operations and Daily Life of the Us Navy's Greatest Warships (Hardcover)
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Chris McNab; Patrick BunceWalmart # 581668310
$36.95$36.95

There was another listing but it was for operation of an aircraft transportation company, which I thought was a bit of a stretch right now.

(th)

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