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#76 2019-06-30 20:30:23

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

There is another product out there that claims to be a fuel cell creating power source for a flashlight but its dipped into water to make it work.. which is not a fuel cell but sounds like a dry electrolyte that needs to become moist to make a battery...

https://www.businessinsider.com/hydra-l … rge-2016-3

The Hydra fuel-cell will provide up to 300 hours of light until it dries out and needs a refill...

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#77 2019-09-30 00:29:21

NupurPandey
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Great Information was very useful for me.

PLC SCADA Training in Nagpur

Last edited by NupurPandey (2019-10-01 00:31:39)

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#78 2020-01-04 22:16:19

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Bump for discusion that is on going about
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9238&p=6

https://mypages.iit.edu/~smart/garrear/fuelcells.htm

of course its with regards to taking the carbon out of the equation and using Nitrogen instead...
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9001

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#79 2020-09-16 10:33:09

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Here is a report that could fit into several topics.

It is starting out here because it is an application of fuel cell technology for regional aircraft.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/finance … 10790.html

kbd512 in particular comes to mind as a member who has been reporting (to the forum) on this technology frequently.

(th)

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#80 2020-11-04 17:03:33

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

The article at the link below reports on announcement of a fuel cell engine for commercial use.

The Mars connection is that such a vehicle will need to carry Oxygen along with a store of Hydrogen, but otherwise, I would assume/hope the engine would perform identically.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nuvera-launc … 00051.html

(th)

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#81 2020-12-19 17:10:33

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

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#82 2022-02-05 19:14:51

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

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#83 2022-04-30 04:49:35

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

This post is related to a topic on Internal Combustion engines for Mars.

The focus in that topic is selection/modification/design of an engine that is as close to stock as possible, adapted for Mars by using CO and O2 as a chemical energy carrier.

** This ** post is offered to see if there is a possibility that CO and O2 might be capable of direct generation of electricity in a fuel cell designed for the Mars venture.

I have no idea, so will not be surprised if the answer is a resounding "NO" or perhaps even "NEVER"

On the other hand, for someone who doesn't know the answer before hand, practically ** anything ** that might appear in response to this inquiry will be interesting and welcome.

(th)

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#84 2022-05-01 06:25:56

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Researchers manage to charge a lithium-ion battery to 60 percent in 5.6 minutes
https://interestingengineering.com/lith … -5-minutes

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#85 2022-06-14 07:14:39

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Global Clean Ammonia (Blue, Green) Market Report 2022

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-c … 00746.html

Green ammonia is made carbon-free by using renewable energy to make green hydrogen. Producing clean ammonia is thus a significantly more environmentally beneficial method of fertilizer production, as well as a viable naval fuel. Renewable energy generation and the clean ammonia distribution system continue to outperform fossil fuel power generation in terms of overall capacity expansion. Solar and wind are high-potential renewable energy sources, and are likely to dominate the renewable energy market in the next years.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-14 07:16:09)

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#86 2022-06-14 13:53:02

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

For Mars_B4_Moon re #56

Thanks for the update on ammonia production!

As you travel the Internet, please keep a watch for news of improvements, advances, ???  in Fuel Cells.

It is even conceivable someone has invented a fuel cell that uses ammonia.

** That ** would be something!

While we wait for something newer you may find, here is an overview of the field from 2020:

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/article … d0ta08810b

1.3. Organisation of the review

Ammonia fuel cells can be considered either direct or indirect, depending on where the decomposition of ammonia occurs. Indirect ammonia fuel cells involve thermally decomposing ammonia to release hydrogen. The method of ammonia decomposition for on-site generation of hydrogen for fuel cells has been widely proposed and reviewed.39,40 Direct ammonia fuel cells, however, reap the benefits of using ammonia directly within the fuel cell and truly utilise the chemical energy stored within ammonia itself. This eliminates the necessity of on-board hydrogen storage and bypasses the decomposition step. This leads to savings in facility and operating costs, improving the overall efficiency.5,23,41–44 This review will therefore focus on direct ammonia fuel cells. Ammonia fuel cells can be categorised according to different criteria including electrolyte, temperature, and reactant-based and ion transfer-based classifications.45 Within this review, we focus on direct ammonia fuel cells to convert the chemical energy in ammonia into electricity and classify the technology based on electrolyte type as follows:
• Oxygen anion conducting electrolyte-based solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC-O)
• Proton conducting electrolyte-based solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC-H)
• Alkaline ammonia fuel cells (AAFCs) (including molten alkaline ammonia fuel cells)
• Alkaline membrane-based fuel cells (AMFCs)
• Microbial ammonia fuel cells
Previous reviews have focused on a variety of ammonia fuel cells with various electrolyte materials, electrocatalyst materials and operating temperatures.3,5,41,44,46,47 However, it is important to analyse the conditions that provide the most up-to-date optimum performances. It is also equally important to assess the prospects of such fuel cell technology within real life applications and their ability to integrate with and potentially replace existing technologies. Section 2 provides a brief introduction into SOFC-O, SOFC-H and AMFC technology and assesses each based on the effect of the electrolyte material, electrocatalyst material and effect of operating temperature within each system. A comprehensive study on performances based on recent literature is presented. AAFCs and microbial ammonia fuel cells are also mentioned for completeness. Section 3 more closely discusses the potential integration of these technologies into real life systems. We evaluate the likelihood of each technology type for the next generation of ammonia fuel cells. Section 4 provides comments for prospective and current challenges of today's direct ammonia fuel cell technologies.
2. Ammonia

Recent progress in ammonia fuel cells and their potential applications

Georgina Jeerh a, Mengfei Zhang  a and Shanwen Tao  *ab
aSchool of Engineering, University of Warwick, Coventry CV4 7AL, UK
bDepartment of Chemical Engineering, Monash University, Clayton, Victoria 3800, Australia

Received 7th September 2020 , Accepted 26th November 2020
First published on 26th November 2020

(th)

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#87 2022-06-14 19:34:06

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

With all of the types why has the commercial market not gotten them out to the consume in a cheaper price for general use rather than still being in custom design for large scale use?

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#88 2022-06-26 08:07:08

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

SK Innovation Invests in Amogy, an Ammonia-Powered Fuel Cell
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/sk-inno … m-company/

EV Battery Tech Formally Opens Trading to US Investors
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-ba … 00598.html

Vanadium Batteries Keeps Energy Flowing For Telecom Biz
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/06/14/va … -industry/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-26 08:20:13)

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#89 2022-06-26 08:16:20

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

For Mars_B4_Moon ... thanks for keeping this topic in view with Post #88

However, battery development, while important, is tangential to fuel cell development.

As you look through the myriad Internet offerings, please keep this topic in mind when fuel cell related items show up.

I would be especially interested (for example) if there is someone developing a carbon monoxide fuel cell for Mars.

That would ** really ** be a step forward, because it would reduce the points where inefficiency occurs to the absolute minimum (on Mars).

(th)

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#90 2022-06-26 09:17:10

Calliban
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Carbon monoxide could be burned in a solid oxide fuel cell, by performing a gas shift reaction with steam at the anode.  This will yield hydrogen, which can then pass through the cell membranes.

The Martian atmosphere contains about 0.2% O2 and about 0.1% CO.  If we could remove the carbon dioxide somehow, we would be left with a gas mixture of about 4% O2, 2% CO and the balance being N2 and Ar.  If this residual gas is then passed over a heated nickel catalyst, the CO would react with the O2, producing heat.  That heat coukd them power a heat engine.  The problem is, removing the CO2 will probably require more energy than the miniscule amount of heat that combustion will yield.  Also, the power density of the device will probably be quite poor, because of the sheer volune of atmospheric gas that has to pass through it per unit energy yield.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-06-26 09:17:56)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#91 2023-03-11 07:46:25

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

For Mars_B4_Moon ....

Calliban wrote:

Carbon monoxide could be burned in a solid oxide fuel cell, by performing a gas shift reaction with steam at the anode.  This will yield hydrogen, which can then pass through the cell membranes.

The Martian atmosphere contains about 0.2% O2 and about 0.1% CO.  If we could remove the carbon dioxide somehow, we would be left with a gas mixture of about 4% O2, 2% CO and the balance being N2 and Ar.  If this residual gas is then passed over a heated nickel catalyst, the CO would react with the O2, producing heat.  That heat coukd them power a heat engine.  The problem is, removing the CO2 will probably require more energy than the miniscule amount of heat that combustion will yield.  Also, the power density of the device will probably be quite poor, because of the sheer volune of atmospheric gas that has to pass through it per unit energy yield.

This post by Calliban appears to offer the prospect of a fuel cell concept that might consume carbon monoxide.

The process (as I read it) is a bit more involved than I was hoping might be possible.

The ideal (from my perspective, and kbd512 notwithstanding) is a process that allows carbon monoxide and a supply of oxygen to cause a flow of electrons when they are allowed to recombine.  The exhaust of such a system would be CO2 which could be vented to the atmosphere.

This topic is available to all members for posting of news about any research they may find, showing that carbon monoxide and oxygen can be fed into a fuel cell to produce electron movement directly, without hydrogen as a requirement.

(th)

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#92 2023-03-11 08:04:47

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

ChatGPT found references to actual research into the subject of carbon monoxide fuel cells:

Hello again!
Hello there! How can I assist you today?

Two creative people who are members of an international forum have proposed a fuel cell design that we believe does not currently exist, but which may be possible. Please search your available resources to see if anyone has developed or even thought about a carbon monoxide fuel cell. This device, were it to exist, would produce a flow of electrons as Carbon Monoxide molecules claim the Oxygen atoms which were removed from them.  The "traditional" design of a machine that consumes carbon monoxide as fuel and oxygen as oxidizer is a mechanical device that uses internal combustion to move pistons, and thus to deliver mechanical power.  A carbon monoxide fuel cell would have no moving parts, and it would deliver a flow of electrons directly to an external circuit. We will not be disappointed if your search has a null result.

I have searched through my resources and it appears that there have been some studies and experiments conducted on carbon monoxide fuel cells, although they are not yet widely used or commercially available.

One example is a study conducted by researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and the University of Rome in 2012, where they developed a prototype carbon monoxide fuel cell that used a platinum-based catalyst to produce electricity from the reaction of carbon monoxide and oxygen.

Another example is a research paper published in the Journal of Power Sources in 2018, where researchers from the Indian Institute of Technology Roorkee developed a carbon monoxide fuel cell using a nickel-cobalt-iron (NiCoFe) ternary oxide as the catalyst.

It appears that while carbon monoxide fuel cells are still in the experimental stage, there is ongoing research and development in this area. It's possible that the fuel cell design proposed by the two creative people in the international forum could be feasible and worth exploring further.

Thank you! Please provide the references!  The application would be on Mars, where carbon dioxide is available in abundance, and where solar power can be used to separate carbon dioxide molecules. The international group is studying/planning life on Mars.  Your discovery of actual work in this area is both surprising and welcome!

Certainly! Here are the references for the studies I mentioned:

B. J. H. Stannowski, M. L. Perry, M. P. Brandon, and V. Birss, "Carbon Monoxide as a Fuel for the Solid Oxide Fuel Cell: A Review," Journal of Power Sources, vol. 195, no. 3, pp. 547-556, 2010.

M. Asadi, K. Kim, C. Liu, and Y. Lin, "Nickel-cobalt-iron ternary oxide as a highly efficient catalyst for carbon monoxide oxidation in fuel cells," Journal of Power Sources, vol. 396, pp. 607-613, 2018.

It's interesting to hear about your application on Mars! Carbon dioxide is indeed abundant on the planet's surface, and the use of solar power to split carbon dioxide molecules could be a promising approach to producing carbon mo

I'd appreciate anyone in the forum who might have a bit of time and an interest in the subject to explore these references and report back to this topic!

(th)

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#93 2023-03-11 13:15:40

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

It's one thing to make use of the gasses as a surplus of energy storage but there is a huge difference when you must supply energy in order to make use of them in a cell of any type.
We have also looked at this a possible rocket fuel or even for a airplane power source as well for mars since this seems to be the easiest to gather to make use of.

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#94 2023-04-29 11:48:22

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Demand for automotive lithium-ion batteries surges 65% to 550GWh in 2022: IEA
https://www.bestmag.co.uk/demand-for-au … -2022-iea/

New nickel-manganese-cobalt battery for maritime applications
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/04/17/ … lications/

Redwood Materials to recycle e-bike batteries for Rad
https://www.electrive.com/2023/04/26/re … s-for-rad/

Thermal runaway EV battery fires controlled with water cutting tech
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/consumer- … tting-tech

Sweden is building the world's first permanent electrified road for EVs to charge while driving
https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/2 … -while-dri

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#95 2023-04-29 15:19:59

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

For Mars_B4_Moon re #94

First, this is another opportunity for me to thank you for your many interesting and content full posts!

Second, since this is the Fuel Cell topic, I'm hoping you will keep this topic in mind if you run across updates about fuel cells.

Batteries are important, for sure, and it is possible there are topics available for updates as they show up.

(th)

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#96 2023-05-28 15:37:21

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,175

Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

High-performance precious metal-free direct ammonia fuel cells endowed by Co-doped Ni4Cu1 anode catalysts
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 732300499X

Hyundai and LG announce $4.3 billion plant in Georgia to build batteries for electric vehicles
https://techxplore.com/news/2023-05-hyu … eries.html

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#97 2023-05-28 17:29:28

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

For Mars_B4_Moon re #96

Thank you for the update on ammonia for fuel cells!

The authors appear to have made a bookkeeping error ...

5 October 2023, 122856


the references include 2022, so I assume the article itself is from October of 2022.


A robust fuel cell design able to work with ammonia would be quite interesting, if it can be moved out of the lab and into working vehicles.

(th)

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#98 2023-11-19 15:10:42

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

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#99 2023-11-20 10:00:52

tahanson43206
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/honda-shows … 00254.html

Autoblog
Honda shows next-generation hydrogen fuel cell drivetrain
Ronan Glon
Mon, November 20, 2023 at 10:00 AM EST·2 min read

Honda has unveiled its next-generation hydrogen fuel cell at a trade show in Brussels, Belgium. Still at the prototype stage, the drivetrain is being developed for a wide variety of applications including hydrogen-electric cars, commercial vehicles, and construction machinery.

The list of carmakers pouring time and money into hydrogen technology is relatively short. BMW is working jointly with Toyota, it notably showcased a hydrogen-powered experimental X5 earlier in 2023, General Motors is developing the technology with Honda, and Hyundai is a major proponent of hydrogen-powered vehicles as well. Hydrogen needs to clear numerous hurdles before it can merge into the mainstream, including the near-complete lack of a refueling infrastructure, but Honda executives expect that these issues will soon be overcome.

"We believe demand for the technology will soon reach the critical mass required for full commercial deployment," Ingo Nyhues, the deputy general manager of business planning and development for Honda's European division, affirmed in a statement.


Honda stopped short of providing technical details about its next-generation hydrogen drivetrain. It merely described the system as a highly versatile unit that offers "compact dimensions, a powerful output, outstanding durability, and the ability to provide quick start-up times even in low-temperature environments." It sounds like development work is on-going, but the company has already identified four primary use cases.

First, its system will end up in a hydrogen-powered CR-V that will be sold in North America and in Japan starting in 2024. It's also being designed to power heavy-duty commercial vehicles, and engineers will begin testing a prototype developed jointly with Isuzu by March 2024. If everything goes according to plan, the prototype should morph into a production model that will go on sale in select markets by 2027.

The third use case identified by Honda's research and development team is stationary power generation; it could serve as a backup power source for a data center, for example. Finally, the firm will work with other companies to design hydrogen-powered construction equipment.

(th)

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#100 2023-12-19 10:24:10

SpaceNut
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Re: Fuel Cell Development, Application, Prospects

Thou the article is calling it a battery it relies on splitting water into oxygen for the carbon anode and membranes to make it function.

Engineers have created a revolutionary new battery that could replace costly lithium-ion options: ‘Efficient, cheap, safe’

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