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#201 2022-03-26 20:22:13

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Nothing in what you write is an argument against vaccine causation.

The first thing you have to do is explain the potential causes of the "autism epidemic". Alternatively you have to deny there has been an autism epidemic. It might be that as aluminium has been withdrawn from vaccines (why? no reason?) we will see a decline in the autism epidemic.  But equally it may be that playing Russian roulette with the brain through multiple vaccinations with or without aluminium being involved is dangerous to infants.

I'm open to debate and research on this. Sadly the Big Pharma-corrupted medical establishment are not.  They just repeat Animal Farm type slogans: "Vaccines safe, vaccines good, multiple vaccines even better".

SpaceNut wrote:

Scientists identify overgrowth of key brain structure in babies who later develop autism

researchers from the Infant Brain Imaging Study (IBIS) Network, used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to demonstrate that the amygdala grows too rapidly in infancy. Overgrowth begins between six and 12 months of age, prior to the age when the hallmark behaviors of autism fully emerge, enabling the earliest diagnosis of this condition. Increased growth of the amygdala in infants who were later diagnosed with autism differed markedly from brain-growth patterns in babies with another neurodevelopmental disorder, fragile X syndrome, where no differences in amygdala growth were observed.

not vaccines....


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#202 2022-03-26 21:14:01

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,717

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Louis,

Nothing in what you write proves vaccines did cause autism.  Autism is a brain developmental disorder that occurs in children who have or have not been vaccinated.  50 years ago, there weren't so many kids with autism because they either weren't diagnosed or so many of them died as infants that it's probable that the ones who did have developmental disorder succumbed to some illness before more profound underlying problems were identified, masking an underlying issue that always existed.  Reporting and diagnosis simply wasn't as good as it is today, not by a long shot.  We developed the plethora of tests we have today so that doctors could prove or disprove their educated hunches.  50 years ago, women also tended to have children when they were younger and healthier to boot.  The human reproductive system has a built-in expiration date.  The longer you wait, the greater the possibility of ASD, illness, and related issues.

But yes, as someone who actually believes in science I must admit there could always be some link between vaccines and autism.  Thus far, there is precisely ZERO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.  No lack of evidence would ever satisfy you, either, because this is ideological for you.  You're after a specific result because your child had an adverse reaction to a vaccine, therefore every vaccination is a dangerous medical experimental in your belief system.

Aluminum was removed because it was simply one more otherwise benign and useful ingredient in vaccines that someone pitched a fit over after we injected some lab rat with a bazillion times the dosage included in actual vaccines and managed to produce a negative outcome.

We drowned this lab rat in water for so long it was brain damaged after we revived it.  That's definitive proof that water is harmful to the brain development of children and causes autism.  See what I did there?  That has become the level of discussion over vaccines.  We have two polar extremes, fueled by fear, distrust, and politics on both sides.  Neither can cede an inch to the other for fear some battle has been won or lost.

Do I trust everything any company tells me?  Hell no.  However, I do weight empirical evidence very heavily.  Whenever there's no evidence, the lack of evidence will never prove a negative, but it certainly doesn't prove the opposite, either.  That's a cheap liar, I mean lawyer (Who am I kidding, what's the difference?), trick.

We should look at all cause deaths when studying deaths from HIV/AIDS, not just deaths from HIV/AIDS.  That patient didn't die of AIDS, they died of pneumonia.  Yeah, right.  AIDS completely shutting down their immune system had nothing to do with it.  Why is that?  Well, otherwise my theory holds as much water as a colander.

Vaccines that prevent your child from being crippled for life of dead are "more gooderer" than maimings and deaths from preventable diseases.  I could give a crap how many animal farm references go into vaccination campaigns so long as the kids get to live long enough to become adults and reproduce as a result.

Are all vaccines 100% "safe and effective"?  Obviously not.  People make vaccines and people can make mistakes.  That's why we test the living hell out of these things.  Nothing will ever be "safe", except death.  It's a real safe bet none of this matters in the slightest if your child dies from an otherwise preventable disease.  Do we need to have a public debate on the harmful side effects from Polio vaccines?  Not on this planet.  Polio maims and kills.  The Polio vaccine seems to prevent damn near everyone from suffering that fate, and if there are serious harmful side effects, we sure has heck don't have much evidence for that.

Maybe we haven't linked vaccines to ASD because there is no apparent link.  Maybe we need to look elsewhere.  We can and should periodically revisit this possibility if we end up rolling a doughnut elsewhere.

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#203 2022-03-27 07:32:55

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Autism diagnosis has tripled since 2000 in the USA. Tripled!

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2020/us-au … cdc-report

Is it really your contention that there was such ignorance of autism a mere two decades ago that doctors were under-diagnosing it by 200%?

I don't think that's credible.


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#204 2022-03-27 08:15:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,718

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

The bar to what defines Autism has changed as to how to test and these were not the bar of yesteryear for ASD (autism spectrum disorder)

Even as a child, the comedian knew her brain was atypical. But it was only in her late 20s that her anxiety, depression and meltdowns finally made sense

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#205 2022-03-29 06:37:43

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Nearly all these deaths - over 90 percent, closer to 95 percent under a more expansive definition of Covid deaths - now occur in people who have taken Covid shots.

Latest data from UK shows that the unvaccinated are faring better than the vaccinated when it comes to Covid deaths.

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/we- … -we-do?s=r


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#206 2022-03-29 06:53:15

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,526
Website

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

louis,

We've had a very, very high takeup of the vaccines amongst the elderly, who are the people who are actually vulnerable to it. 95-100% depending on cohort. And even with vaccination, their risk is still far higher than an unvaccinated young person (vaxxed 80 y/o = unvaxxed 50 y/o in risk terms). So it's no surprising that they're dying at a far higher rate than the unvaxxed, who are for the most part young people at very low risk.

In America, the vaccine hesitancy cuts right up the age pyramid, so consequently they have far more hospitalisations and deaths at the same fraction of people vaccinated. A country could have not vaccinated anyone under 40 and the still wouldn't have many deaths as a result, because the age specific mortality rates for people under 40 are very very low. Which is why rare adverse effects can tip the benefit:cost balance away from vaccination for young people -- it cuts a very low risk of death or injury from the virus, but introduces a very low risk of death or injury from the vaccine. If you're elderly, the risk from the virus is so high it's a no brainer to get it. If you're a child, it's probably lower risk to be infected.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#207 2022-03-29 17:20:10

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

I totally reject the idea of age-related analysis of vaccines. Remember, these are deaths associated with  Covid. You are admitting the vaccines don't prevent deaths associated with  Covid. Vaccines are supposed to prevent disease not to deliver some very marginal and possibly non-existent benefit. Or, to put it another way, if you are going to undertake age-related analysis then why would any healthy person under 50 take the vaccine and risk vaccine injury?  They derive only statistical risk from receivin the vaccine.

Anyway you're just retailing the same old biased stats. Your Covid stats for older people are completely unreliable because (a) doctors don't vaccinate very weak and elderly people - it's unethical because it will cause them extreme distress and likely kill then and (b) when the Covid vaccination kills someone or causes them to be infected with Covid that isn't counted because you have the completely bogus two week grace period following injection when "supposedly" the vaccinated are still unvaccinated!

Terraformer wrote:

louis,

We've had a very, very high takeup of the vaccines amongst the elderly, who are the people who are actually vulnerable to it. 95-100% depending on cohort. And even with vaccination, their risk is still far higher than an unvaccinated young person (vaxxed 80 y/o = unvaxxed 50 y/o in risk terms). So it's no surprising that they're dying at a far higher rate than the unvaxxed, who are for the most part young people at very low risk.

In America, the vaccine hesitancy cuts right up the age pyramid, so consequently they have far more hospitalisations and deaths at the same fraction of people vaccinated. A country could have not vaccinated anyone under 40 and the still wouldn't have many deaths as a result, because the age specific mortality rates for people under 40 are very very low. Which is why rare adverse effects can tip the benefit:cost balance away from vaccination for young people -- it cuts a very low risk of death or injury from the virus, but introduces a very low risk of death or injury from the vaccine. If you're elderly, the risk from the virus is so high it's a no brainer to get it. If you're a child, it's probably lower risk to be infected.


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#209 2022-03-30 02:19:41

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,526
Website

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

I totally reject the idea of age-related analysis of vaccines.

louis, this disease has a massive skew in age-related mortality. You *have* to factor in age. It would be like, idk, designing a Mars base and ignoring the very significant difference in atmospheric pressure between Mars and Earth. You can't just ignore something that has such a large impact on results.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#210 2022-03-30 06:21:13

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Yes and no.

No, in that this was billed as a 95% effective vaccine, not as something that might help a very small minority of old and sick people stagger on in continued ill health for a few more months.

Yes, in that older people (or rather older people with poorly functioning immune systems) are more vulnerable to the illness. 

But equally, you can't ignore that people close to death are not vaccinated, it being considered unethical to vaccinate them as it raises their chances of dying in response to the vaccine significantly and it can cause them extreme distress (e.g. the problem of finding a vein in someone who is thin and frail, and maybe confused about what is going on).  Anyone can see that that is going to hugely skew the figures, but it is never allowed for.

Terraformer wrote:

I totally reject the idea of age-related analysis of vaccines.

louis, this disease has a massive skew in age-related mortality. You *have* to factor in age. It would be like, idk, designing a Mars base and ignoring the very significant difference in atmospheric pressure between Mars and Earth. You can't just ignore something that has such a large impact on results.

Last edited by louis (2022-03-30 06:22:06)


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#211 2022-03-30 06:34:58

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Do you know what's the most important thing in that chart?  That the data is from Dec 2020 (there's an error - giving the date as 2021 BTW) to June 2021. During that period of course for most of the time most people were unvaccinated, so - especially in the first couple of months (when the Covid winter wave was at its worst) - the vast majority of people getting Covid and dying with it (not necessarily from it) would be unvaccinated, simply as a matter of statistical fact.  You need to wait until essentially everyone who is going to get the vaccine has had it before you start your analysis. I also think you need to screen out all the people who were too ill/close to death to receive a vaccine or booster, in order to avoid skewing the figures.

As time has gone on we see diminished vaccine efficacy as that initial statistical quirk has been left behind. Now the picture is as Alex Berenson presented it.




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#212 2022-05-24 06:39:34

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 2,690

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

I'm not sure where to put this topic, the search engine returned ' Virus filtration killing systems ' and ' Getting to Mars with REAL technology, & what's currently missing. ' and some Covid virus Corona medical surgery topics



I will post it here for now




Self-cleaning spacecraft surfaces to combat microbes
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Self … s_999.html

Astronauts live and work in orbit along with teeming populations of microorganisms, which could present a serious threat to health - and even the structural integrity of spacecraft. To help combat such invisible stowaways, an ESA-led project is developing microbe-killing coatings suitable for use within spacecraft cabins.

Crewmen on the International Space Station are not alone. A microbial survey of surfaces within the orbital outpost found dozens of different bacteria and fungi species, including harmful pathogens such as Staphylococcus aureus - known to cause skin and respiratory infections as well as food poisoning.

These microbial populations could even make spacecraft sick, not just astronauts. Bacteria and fungi produce 'biofilms' - akin to the plaque on your teeth - that can in turn tarnish and eat away at metal and glass as well as plastic and rubber.

This problem proved acute in the latter days of the ISS's predecessor, the Mir space station, where microbial colonies were observed growing on parts of spacesuits, cable insulation and even the seals of windows.

"With astronauts' immune systems suppressed by microgravity, the microbial populations of future long-duration space missions will need to be controlled rigorously," explains ESA material engineer Malgorzata Holynska. "So ESA's Materials' Physics and Chemistry Section is collaborating with Istituto Italiano di Tecnologia, IIT, to study antimicrobial materials that could be added to internal cabin surfaces."

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