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#176 2020-05-28 08:30:17

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,078
Website

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Louis:

I looked at the video interview.  There's some contradiction there.  He says he is not an "anti-vaxxer",  but his research focus has become aluminum in vaccines,  by his own descriptions,  and his rhetorical slant is anti-vaccine,  and anti-corporation. 

The fundamental assumption in his hypothesis is that the alumunum causes the brain damage in autism and Alzheimers,  and lately that the tiny dose of aluminum in a vaccine adjuvant contributes to this. 

If you bothered to search and look at what others find about that same issue,  the first thing you notice is that the assumption of causality is quite unproven!  Statistical correlation is NOT causality,  that has to come from things outside the statistics themselves.  If you bother to read in a statistics text,  that's the very first thing the book says. 

Point is,  no one yet knows whether the elevated aluminum is a cause or a symptom.  It's just associated.  The researchers also find elevated aluminum in all sorts of tumors.  But they find a whole slew of elevated metals,  not just aluminum. That is rather suggestive of elevated metals for various diseases being more of a symptom than anything else.  But the point is,  NO ONE knows yet.

That finding does not dispute the known toxicity of excess metals,  particularly the ones of higher molecular weight,  like lead.  What we are arguing here is cause versus effect for an observation of elevated metals in some organ or some tumor.  THAT is the unknown.

I am glad Prof. Exley is pursuing this.  But I rather doubt he has uncovered the final,  full answer.  No one else has.  The odds are against him.

The odds are still with me,  not you,  that vaccines are a health boon with few if any adverse effects.  Period. 

The procedures for developing and proving them out seem to work rather well most of the time. Many things could short-circuit or derail that,  among them (1) being in too much of a rush,  and (2) corporate greed,  but that doesn't seem to happen very often,  so the regulators seem to be doing their jobs decently enough.   

Vaccines confer major benefits with few adverse effects.  That seems to be where we are. I'm all for raising and investigating questions and concerns.  That is fundamentally how our science is self-correcting. 

But I disapprove of ballyhooing a question to be investigated into a scare-tactic excuse for not doing what we already know works. THAT is what you anti-vaxxers are doing.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#177 2020-06-16 16:51:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

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#178 2020-06-16 17:54:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Sadly, I wrote you a long reply which just got eaten up in cyberspace! My summary:

1. Exley probably like me - not opposed to all vaccination but thinks a strong case needs to be made for each vaccine introduced. I think the main thrust though is he wants to get the stage where we can predict who has a genetic susceptibility to vaccine damage.

2. I have not seen anyone offer evidence to dispute Exley's hypothesis about helper cells from the brain carrying aluminium back to the brain after aiding an anti-vaccine response at the site of the injection. We see how a tiny aluminium dose in muscle tissue can cause a huge inflammation in the arm in some individuals. Imagine that response in the brain.

3. No need to teach me the difference between correlation and causality - tell the pro-vaxxers who cite improved health from the mid 50s onwards (as vaccinations were introduced) without acknowledging this was also a period of vast improvement in diet, housing, living conditions, water sanitation, personal hygiene, and reduced demand for hard physical work, child labour and so on.

4. Glad you agree Exley should continue his research. Most pro-vaxxers want his research shut down and his findings censored. He now receives no public funds for his research. This is typical: public and private funds only go into pro-vaccine research and promotion.

GW Johnson wrote:

Louis:

I looked at the video interview.  There's some contradiction there.  He says he is not an "anti-vaxxer",  but his research focus has become aluminum in vaccines,  by his own descriptions,  and his rhetorical slant is anti-vaccine,  and anti-corporation. 

The fundamental assumption in his hypothesis is that the alumunum causes the brain damage in autism and Alzheimers,  and lately that the tiny dose of aluminum in a vaccine adjuvant contributes to this. 

If you bothered to search and look at what others find about that same issue,  the first thing you notice is that the assumption of causality is quite unproven!  Statistical correlation is NOT causality,  that has to come from things outside the statistics themselves.  If you bother to read in a statistics text,  that's the very first thing the book says. 

Point is,  no one yet knows whether the elevated aluminum is a cause or a symptom.  It's just associated.  The researchers also find elevated aluminum in all sorts of tumors.  But they find a whole slew of elevated metals,  not just aluminum. That is rather suggestive of elevated metals for various diseases being more of a symptom than anything else.  But the point is,  NO ONE knows yet.

That finding does not dispute the known toxicity of excess metals,  particularly the ones of higher molecular weight,  like lead.  What we are arguing here is cause versus effect for an observation of elevated metals in some organ or some tumor.  THAT is the unknown.

I am glad Prof. Exley is pursuing this.  But I rather doubt he has uncovered the final,  full answer.  No one else has.  The odds are against him.

The odds are still with me,  not you,  that vaccines are a health boon with few if any adverse effects.  Period. 

The procedures for developing and proving them out seem to work rather well most of the time. Many things could short-circuit or derail that,  among them (1) being in too much of a rush,  and (2) corporate greed,  but that doesn't seem to happen very often,  so the regulators seem to be doing their jobs decently enough.   

Vaccines confer major benefits with few adverse effects.  That seems to be where we are. I'm all for raising and investigating questions and concerns.  That is fundamentally how our science is self-correcting. 

But I disapprove of ballyhooing a question to be investigated into a scare-tactic excuse for not doing what we already know works. THAT is what you anti-vaxxers are doing.

GW


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#179 2020-06-16 19:30:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

I believe that shots should be not on a schedule but metered with blood checks to ensure that we are not causing reactions with the injections that are not intended. Its about the same as not testing when we think we are sick. Until you test you do not have enough information to make good choices with.

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#180 2020-06-16 20:08:58

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Well yes, but I think it's about more than that - also about genetic susceptibility...if you have the sort of physiology where your brain immediately sends lots of protective cells to deal with a muscle tissue inflammation in the arm, you are going to be immediatey at a greater risk of brain damage.

SpaceNut wrote:

I believe that shots should be not on a schedule but metered with blood checks to ensure that we are not causing reactions with the injections that are not intended. Its about the same as not testing when we think we are sick. Until you test you do not have enough information to make good choices with.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#181 2020-06-25 20:00:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Genetic Mutation Autism

Scientists have identified mutations in a gene called CNOT1 that affect brain development and impair memory and learning.

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#182 2020-06-30 18:01:14

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Maybe this thread should be retitled "Don't Vaccinate Your Children".

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news … ren-dying/

If you scroll down on this link you will see that during the pandemic there has been a big reduction in infant mortality:

"Virtually the entire change came from infants. [That is, the reduction in young people's deaths during the pandemic.] Somehow, the changing pattern of American life during the lockdowns has been saving the lives of hundreds of infants, over 200 per week.”

and

“One very clear change that has received publicity is that public health officials are bemoaning the sharp decline in infant vaccinations as parents are not taking their infants into pediatric offices for their regular well‐baby checks.”

Does anyone think this remarkable occurrence will be followed up with detailed and impartial research?  Come on, of course it won't. Big Pharma and their Government/Billionaire Charity pals won't allow it.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#183 2020-06-30 18:33:06

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm

Since we were stay at home parents and feared the doctors office the chances of an type of disease was greatly reduced to those under 5 as they were not exposed.

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#184 2020-06-30 19:25:26

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

BS. As the article suggests, the reduction in deaths is in the area of SIDS -Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

If you haven't noticed,  human children have been evolved over several billion years (including all our pre-human forebears) to deal with threats to their bodies in the environment. The idea you would get such a drop in infant deaths from simple isolation of children is not credible - and in any case it's very doubtful how thorough that isolation has been.  But what we do know is parents are not attending clinics where they are persuaded to have their children vaccinated. That definitely is the case.

SpaceNut wrote:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm

Since we were stay at home parents and feared the doctors office the chances of an type of disease was greatly reduced to those under 5 as they were not exposed.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#185 2020-06-30 20:01:59

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

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#186 2020-07-01 11:30:35

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,304
Website

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

SpaceNut,

Comparing infant deaths from a time before effective public health measures (sanitation etc), antibiotics, and various other medical advances that aren't vaccines, to deaths in the modern world, isn't a fair comparison.

It's probably worth doing a large scale study into the children of anti-vaxxers, to see if there's a significant difference in under-5 mortality. We may find that we need to change the age at which people receive their first vaccines.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#187 2020-07-01 16:22:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

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#188 2020-07-05 09:54:14

Nincomp
Banned
Registered: 2020-07-05
Posts: 1

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Vaccines are a must if you care about your children. I think each and everyone cares about their family, just like when we choose things that we will use at home. We must be careful and choose nothing but the best, and that is what we do in choosing the best modern toilet https://bestflushingtoilet.org/best-modern-toilet/ for our bathroom. Making sure we picked the right and suitable one for our family.

Last edited by Nincomp (2020-08-10 02:45:23)


..

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#189 2020-07-05 10:31:32

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

Impressive: you managed to incorporated an imperative unsupported by any evidence with a smidgeon of moral blackmail, all in one ten word sentence.

Perhaps you can explain why children's health is declining so massively in the advanced industrial countries despite the rate of vaccination increasing hugely? One in 16 Irish boys are now judged to be autistic.

Nincomp wrote:

Vaccines is a must if you care about your children.

Last edited by louis (2020-07-05 13:42:12)


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#190 2020-07-05 14:21:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

So the blanket is not defined... first off autism has 5 levels in which 3 are usually used. To determine levels of autism, doctors take two things into account:
abilities of social communication
restricted, repetitive behaviors

Have any of these been done before a vaccine shots was given?
If not then no data no claim.

What-are-the-three-levels-of-autism-260233-5baab02fc9e77c002c390bd2.png

Understanding the 3 Levels of Autism

https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-dia … eria-dsm-5

What are the signs or age
14 Early Signs of Autism

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#191 2020-07-12 05:20:29

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,261

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

It is an unfortunate fact that the decline in child mortality experienced in all developed countries means that less healthy children survive and contribute to an appearance of reduced child health overall.

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#192 2020-07-12 20:03:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

The call to force all schools to open without difference to the consequences that they may bring it home to ones family even if they them selves do not get sick. The damage to a child that knows his or her parents or grandparents are to possibly die from what they brought home would be devastating.
Even those countries that have tried have had to stop and correct for cases that show up...
It is not a guarantee that they will not go without getting sick themselves.
First 2 cases of coronavirus-related inflammatory syndrome identified in children in South Carolina

"We continue to see more and more young people, especially those under 20, contracting and spreading COVID-19, and we know MIS-C is a threat to our youngest South Carolinians," State Epidemiologist Dr. Linda Bell said in a news release. "MIS-C is a serious health complication linked to COVID-19 and is all the more reason why we must stop the spread of this virus."

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#193 2020-09-24 19:07:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,715

Re: Vaccinate Your Children!

With the schools opening and closing just as fast with the quick spike in cases in the schools along with the surrounding area one will question knowing that the vaccines safety and most will not go to get one let alone 2 shots to prevent and to build herd.
It is said that 90% of the people of the US have not been exposed and that 5.3% while they are asymptomatic  while its the 4.7 % that  which have the hospitalization with now over 200,000 dead from those numbers.

For he anti-vaxers it would seem that there is not so much of a connection as ADHD is partially genetic, but there are other risk factors that play a key role

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