Holidays

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-11 19:18:10

For SpaceNut ...
Thanks for the (news to me) of the celebration of New Years on Mars in Mars, Pennsylvania, as well as the NASA event.

Google Search: Mars New Year 2019

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This will mark the beginning of the Mars New Year educational challenge for middle school age students and others interested in participating at our outdoor spring STEAM ed fair May 31, 2019 – June 2, 2019 in downtown Mars. The committee currently is working on the details.May 23, 2018
Gearing Up to Prepare for the Next Mars New Year in 2019! - Mars ...
marsborough.com/gearing-up-to-prepare-for-the-next-mars-new-year-in-2019/
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Mars New Year - Home
www.marsnewyear.com/
The New Year on Mars isn't the same as the New Year on Earth! Here's when it will fall the next couple years... Our 2017 festival celebrated Mars New Year 34! Our 2019 festival will celebrate Mars New Year 35!

Gearing Up to Prepare for the Next Mars New Year in 2019! - Mars ...
marsborough.com/gearing-up-to-prepare-for-the-next-mars-new-year-in-2019/
May 23, 2018 - This will mark the beginning of the Mars New Year educational challenge for middle school age students and others interested in participating at our outdoor spring STEAM ed fair May 31, 2019 – June 2, 2019 in downtown Mars. The committee currently is working on the details.
Tue, Jan 22 Administration & Finance ... 598 Spring Ave, Mars, PA ...
Wed, Jan 23 Public Works Committee ... 598 Spring Ave, Mars, PA ...
Mars New Year - Events | Visit Butler County Pennsylvania!
https://www.visitbutlercounty.com/event … s-new-year
Celebrate the New Year on the planet Mars in the town of Mars highlighting innovation and exploration. ... May 31 2019 (All day) to Jun 2 2019 (All day). Address.
Mars New Year - Home | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com › Pages › Other › Community
Mars New Year. 1.1K likes. Celebrate the New Year on the planet Mars in the town of Mars!
Happy New Year, Mars! - Space.com
https://www.space.com › Science & Astronomy
May 5, 2017 - The next opportunity for Pennsylvania Martians to celebrate in this way won't come until March 23, 2019. After that, Mars New Year revelers will ...
NASA Celebrates Martian New Year in Mars, Pennsylvania | NASA
https://www.nasa.gov/press.../nasa-cele … nnsylvania
Aug 28, 2018 - ... land in Mars, Pennsylvania Friday, June 19 to celebrate Mars' New Year ... than four months ahead of its New Year's 2019 close encounter.

Is anyone who is a member of the NewMars forum also in position to report on (or perhaps even take part in) events in Pennsylvania?

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-12 07:43:48

2019/01/12 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 322.5 Sol Number: 600

Previous SL: 322.0 Previous Sol: 599

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 600 is in Month 21 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.

Candidate names for this month are: Virgo, Vulture, Vixen

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

On Earth, academic sessions are (most often) defined as semesters (half years)
On Mars, a comparable interval will be every Quarter.

On Earth, licenses for operation of vehicles (most often) are renewed annually
On Mars, a comparable interval would be a Half Year, unless a full year is deemed acceptable.
However, it is possible that the longer Full Year interval would be INSUFFICIENT.
The two issues at hand are (a) competence of license holder and (b) tax income to community.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-12 07:48:51

http://www.marsnewyear.com/

1428936597.png?1490368945

http://marsborough.com/gearing-up-to-pr … r-in-2019/

For SpaceNut ...

Would you be interested in establishing a correspondence with the Mayor of Mars, Pennsylvania, with a view to introducing the proposed business calendar we are developing here? There appears to be a significant educational effort underway around the coincidence of the name of the town, and the planet for which it is named. Elementary aged students would (presumably) provide a wealth of suggestions for names of months. The NewMars forum would retain editorial responsibilities to keep Good Order and Discipline in the creative process.

There ** should ** be some national and even international visibility for the NewMars forum, arising from such an interaction.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-01-12 09:59:40

Will forward the request

Mars is home to the popular roadside attraction the Mars "Spaceship" or "Flying Saucer".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars,_Pennsylvania

http://themayorof.com/MarsPennsylvaniamayorof

SpaceNut · 2019-01-12 10:33:55

other minor day to indicate might be for human space flight firsts for all nations such as in a the:

Yuri's Night is named for the first human to launch into space, Yuri Gagarin, who flew the Vostok 1 spaceship on April 12, 1961.

Alan Shepard, Jr. became the first American in space on May 5, 1961, when he was launched aboard Mercury-Redstone 3. His 15-minute flight, dubbed "Freedom 7," was watched by some 45 million television viewers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_spaceflight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ … ationality

Of course the first manned landing on Mars would be a National holiday for Mars.

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-13 07:54:18

2019/01/13 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 323.1 Sol Number: 601

Previous SL: 322.5 Previous Sol: 600

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 601 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Orders for goods or services are a form of Contract. Orders may specify a delivery date, or the vendor may estimate a delivery date which is then accepted or rejected by the buyer.

On Earth, dates for delivery are (often) provided in the format of Month, Day, Year.

On Mars, dates for delivery are likely to be provided in the format of Month, Sol, Year

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-13 13:36:57

Hi SpaceNut,

Thank you for these suggestions and for your closing prediction.

After thinking about them for a while, I'd like to offer this reflection:

I think that if I were on Mars, I'd keep two calendars. The one for Earth would help to stay in touch with activities there, and in particular, to be able to tune into delayed broadcasts of various programs or events as they arrive.

The one for Mars would help to coordinate my schedule with others on the planet.

It seems to me that as humans travel further from Earth, they may keep an atomic clock with Earth time for the same reason, while adapting their local schedules to immediate circumstances. It might well be standard practice for Earth departing vessels to maintain Earth time, and for Mars departing vessels to maintain Mars time. It might make sense for the Mars Cycler to offer both times for reference by passengers and crew, but (I'm guessing of course) meals might well be scheduled on Earth time while ownership resides on Earth.

If the Cycler is big enough, I suppose both schedules could be available.

I do not recall ANY of the Star Trek or Star Wars episodes or movies dealing with this issue.

In addition, I can't recall ANY of the science fiction books or stories I've read considering this issue.

(th)

SpaceNut wrote:

other minor day to indicate might be for human space flight firsts for all nations such as in a the:
Yuri's Night is named for the first human to launch into space, Yuri Gagarin, who flew the Vostok 1 spaceship on April 12, 1961.
Alan Shepard, Jr. became the first American in space on May 5, 1961, when he was launched aboard Mercury-Redstone 3. His 15-minute flight, dubbed "Freedom 7," was watched by some 45 million television viewers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_spaceflight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ … ationality
Of course the first manned landing on Mars would be a National holiday for Mars.

SpaceNut · 2019-01-13 14:37:21

I would agree in dual time and calendar use simular to what we do here with time zones for many nations that we travel and converse with. Contact with close family would need such alignments to be able to carry forward the feelings, loving plus caring and oneness that we share with them for our eventual return home. Its going to be quite a while until we are sending people to stay there forever...

Terraformer · 2019-01-13 16:06:18

On a cycler, I would expect them to cycle. It would give people plenty of time to adjust.

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-13 20:14:02

For Terraformer ...

Thanks again for inviting me to visit NewMars Forum.

I am intrigued by your idea, but am wondering how it would work.

If you were the Captain of a cycler, how would you arrange time measurement. You would have a permanent crew who would presumably have started out from Earth. You would have temporary workers from Earth and Mars. Then you would have passengers going to one or the other of the planets.

On top of everything, of course, you would have navigation to consider, which would require utmost precision and certainty of using the correct time system and units.

Back to you ...
(th)

Terraformer wrote:

On a cycler, I would expect them to cycle. It would give people plenty of time to adjust.

SpaceNut · 2019-01-13 20:55:52

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_cycler

Earth encounter happens with the same Earth-Mars angle, the spacecraft may return to Mars using the same shape heliocentric orbit, hence it is a cycler trajectory. The orbit could be found as a solution of Lambert's problem. Earth-Mars cyclers with a multiple of 7 synodic periods return to Earth at nearly the same point in its orbit and may encounter Earth and/or Mars multiple times during each cycle.

Elon Musk has previously talked about using Earth-Mars Cyclers for "future optimization" of Earth-Mars travel. The benefit to using cyclers include that they allow you to leave much of the hardware needed for long space journeys (exercise equipment, radiation shielding, living quarters, redundancy etc) travelling between Earth and Mars for when you need it, with minimum propellant needed to maintain those orbital cycles.

You could think of the time to catch a cycler as that of a race car coming out of pit row (earth launch)to get onboard the cycler and taking the same approach to getting off to do a pit stop (for entry to mars).

These are the topics for the term cyclers:
Cycler Spaceships - Ships going between Earth and Mars
Why not a cycler?
Aldrin's Cyclers
Interplanetary supply infrastructure - Cyclers vs. one way capsules
Cyclers
Habcrafts and Cyclers

Terraformer · 2019-01-14 05:31:34

Navigation wise, perhaps they wouldn't use minutes/hours/days at all. For precision, it might be better to measure everything in seconds (and kiloseconds and megaseconds etc).

A Martian day isn't that much longer than a Terran one. Over the course of going from Terra to Mars, I'd gradually increase the day length to the Martian one, and vice-versa on the way back, so people's circadian rhythms have plenty of time to adapt. Or maybe all at once at the midpoint, or over a few days - it would be less disruptive than daylight savings time is.

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-14 08:52:27

For Terraformer #62 ...

Thanks for your reply ....

Just FYI (as you plan your navigation of a Cycler) ... seconds are NOT the same length on Mars as they are on Earth. By convention, seconds are longer in proportion to the longer day.

It would be helpful of someone from NASA or JPL (or another organization which does deep space flight planning) were to contribute to this discussion.

It is possible for NewMars Forum to follow the flight of a Cycler, just as I am doing with the progress of Mars around the Sun.

However, the technical challenge of planning the vector adjustments would be much greater than the (comparatively simple) task of just following a planet along its orbit. In the course of such a "flight", readers of the Forum would (hopefully) gain insight into how gravity and other forces influence flight planning.

SpaceNut ... thank you for all those links to Cycler information. It will take a while (for me at least) to review that list. I'll be looking to see if an activity to follow a simulated flight is practical.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-14 09:06:01

2019/01/14 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 323.6 Sol Number: 602

Previous SL: 323.1 Previous Sol: 601

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 602 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Tracking family anniversaries will be more complicated as Mars becomes an active living site for human beings from Earth. It will be necessary and appropriate to keep track of births, deaths, weddings, graduations and other personal events in both locations, separately from each other.

Email communication will facilitate keeping in touch, in a manner almost indistinguishable from current practice on Earth, since a communications delay is of little practical significance for those who check email once a day, or even several times a day.

However, families with members in both planets will have to juggle the calendars, to keep up with changes. A few science fiction writers I've encountered have attempted to deal with the curiosity (from Earth point of view) of age progressing half as fast on Mars as on Earth.

The (somewhat) arbitrary recognition of 21 Earth years as a measure of adulthood does not have an exact match on Mars, where a person might be considered adult at age 10.

The secondary recognition of 18 as an age of (at least partial) adulthood on Earth would be matched with the age of 9 on Mars.

Edited to reflect reminders from RobertDyck about the arbitrary nature of "adulthood" in various cultures.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-01-14 11:52:51)

Terraformer · 2019-01-14 09:10:10

tahanson43206,

Why would seconds be any longer on Mars? It's the minutes and hours that are longer. Redefining the second would make as much sense as redefining the metre based on Mars' smaller size, and hence shorter distance from the equator to the North Pole.

RobertDyck · 2019-01-14 11:29:44

tahanson43206 wrote:

The (somewhat) universal recognition of 21 Earth years as a measure of adulthood does not have an exact match on Mars, where a person might be considered adult at age 10.

That's arbitrary and not universal. I live in the Canadian province of Manitoba. Here the age of majority (when you become adult) is 18. You can drink at age 18, buy tobacco, go to bars, vote, get married, etc. In every way you're an adult at age 18. That was put in place after World War 2. Justification was age of conscription (draft) was 18; if you're old enough to kill people then you're old enough to drink.

The city of Winnipeg gets a lot of college students on spring break from North Dakota and Minnesota, including Minneapolis. Here it's legal for them to drink, anyone age 18 or older.

Age of majority in Ontario is 19. In most states of the US it's 21. In 2008 Saudi Arabia raised age of adulthood from 15 to 18. According to Wikipedia, adulthood is still 15 in Niger, Mali, Democratic Republic of Congo and Cameroon. Just because recognition of adulthood happens at age 21 in the US, doesn't mean it's the same elsewhere.

10 Mars years would correspond to 18 Earth years, 9 months, 21 days.
9 Mars years = 16 Earth years, 11 months, 4 days.
But in the thread Corporate Government, I argued to leave definition of "adulthood" to each individual town.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2019-01-14 11:51:49)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-14 11:57:34

For RobertDyck in #66

Thanks for the reminder of the arbitrary nature of recognition of adulthood. I have adjusted the original post. The intention of the post (of course) was to show how life on Mars will differ in temporal terms, so I appreciate the opportunity to remove distractions.

And! Thanks for the clarifications about relative ages. The ( two for one ) shortcut is clearly less than ideal.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-15 09:56:46

2019/01/15 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 324.2 Sol Number: 603

Previous SL: 323.6 Previous Sol: 602

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 603 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Legal procedures are date dependent.

Court schedules are defined by dates. A reliable calendar will be required and expected.

Sentences are defined by periods of time.

Sentences on Mars which involve Sols or Months will seem “normal” to immigrants from Earth.

Sentences on Mars which involve years will (presumably) be adjusted from Earth standards.

Life sentences will be understandable in both locations.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-16 09:35:39

2019/01/16 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 324.8 Sol Number: 604

Previous SL: 324.2 Previous Sol: 603

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 604 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Transportation schedules will be date dependent.

With a reliable, practical business calendar in effect, transport schedules can be designed and published for small local transit services, as well as for longer distance transportation services.

Shipments of goods and passengers from Earth or other Solar System locations can be forecast based upon estimates of transit times planned for, and then adjusted as necessary.

Scheduling of port facilities can be forecast based upon known arrivals or anticipated arrivals, in addition to expected times in port for landed vehicles.

Arrivals of passengers and goods will set in motion a variety of support services which will have been scheduled in advance based upon expected arrival times.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-16 16:29:23

To the best of my knowledge, a calendar for Mars, which shows the Martian year, does not exist.

Thus, the Mars Society has as much opportunity as any individual or entity to create one for consumer sales.

I contacted calendars.com via Chat, and the text below is the most useful part of the response:

03:57:16 PM [Victoria]
Thank you for your interest in Calendar Holdings LLC. We are a calendar retailer so we purchase printed calendars from a variety of calendar publishers. All calendars we purchase are complete (with barcode, shrink-wrap, etc) and ready to be sold.
I have included a list of some of the large calendar publishers. You can contact them about submitting your photos. All are well known in the industry and do quality work.
Browntrout: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Willow Creek Press: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Sellers Publishing: xxx-xxx-xxxx
TF Publishing: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Workman Publishing: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Feel free to contact us with any other questions.
Thank you,
Calendar Buyers

I note the telephone numbers are blanked out in the Chat Transcript

(th)

louis · 2019-01-16 18:10:26

The Martian Calendar you referenced -

"Martian Year 1 begins (at a time such that Ls=0) on April 11th, 1955. "

Personally I think I'd prefer the first Viking Lander as the starting point but I guess any date will do.

The calendar idea is great. ML Publishing Group publish space calendars...they might be interested. Maybe you could have the pic and the calendar page divided between Earth time and Mars time. I'd have the Earth days and underneath the equivalent Mars sols with different colour backgrounds.

SpaceNut · 2019-01-16 18:43:49

Here is a different Martian calendar
http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Davidia … n_Calendar

Darian calendar is simular in format which you are proposing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darian_calendar

You can create and print your own
https://www.creativecenter.brother/en-u … mi/martian

The Martian Business Calendar
http://www.bdm.id.au/calendar/mars_calendar.html

Not sure how many sports or type will be on mars but here is a calendar
https://www.martiansportsskills.com/pag … rts-skills

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-16 19:09:54

For SpaceNut #72

Thanks !!! for the mini-treasure trove you posted ...

http://www.bdm.id.au/calendar/mars_calendar.html

I lot of thought went into the proposal at the site above. I took a quick look and plan to return to study it more carefully.

***
Louis, thanks for your endorsement of the idea of creating a calendar for sale to the public, and for the name of another publisher who might be interested.

The links SpaceNut provided show that this topic has been considered in far more depth than I had imagined.

For those who are familiar with the entrepreneurial process, the presence of competition is a reassuring sign to investors.

Your suggestion of combining a Martian calendar with an Earth oriented one is certainly interesting, but it is also likely to run into the rule of thumb: Walk before you try to Run!

I can easily imagine that a combined calendar would be attractive to an immigrant from Earth who wants to keep track of events happening on the Terrestrial schedule, but I ALSO suspect that a digital calendar would make the process of displaying date information for two planets so easy there might be a very small market for a printed calendar.

On the other hand, I am (guessing) that there might be a novelty market for a printed Martian calendar on Earth, ESPECIALLY if part of the price includes a donation to a worthy cause, such as a Mars Society purchase of a flight on a suitable vehicle.

It seems highly unlikely a Mars Calendar could be ready for the upcoming Year 35 New Year's "celebration", but I am offering that as a stretch goal in case someone with the means to make something happen is inspired to pursue it.

On the other hand, if there were a publicity campaign in development around the upcoming Martian New Year's, then an attractive hard copy calendar with stunning visuals from NASA and ESA might be a good fit.

We (I am hereby reporting) already know that calendars.com does NOT have a Mars Calendar in their inventory.

Also ... I'd like to add that the primary web site from which the daily Mars date information is collected appears to be devoted to collection and dissemination of Mars climate data.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-17 08:29:24

2019/01/17 Today on Mars Post

Per http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/tim … _time.html

Martian Year: 34 Martian Month in 12 month format: 11
Solar Longitude: 325.3 Sol Number: 605

Previous SL: 324.8 Previous Sol: 604

Note that Solar Longitude measurement varies as a function of location in orbit.

Sol 605 is in Month 22 of a Proposed 24 month calendar. See Post 19 for a summary.
Month 22 extends from Sol 586 through 613

Candidate names for this month are: Wisdom, Wallaby

Note that the Martian Sol will repeat in this report every 36 (Days or Sols – not sure)

1440 minutes in Terran day / 39 minutes longer on Mars >> 36 and change

The purpose of this series is to try out a concept for a reliable, practical business calendar.

Business Marketing campaigns are often date dependent.

Specifically, many marketing campaigns are built around holidays.

Because my experience has been primarily with US practice, I would be interested in any observations others may have about practices in other locations on Earth.

If Martian business practice follows the US model, marketing people will dream up special days around which to build campaigns.

The arrival of shipments of goods and passengers will (most likely) stimulate marketing activity by commercial enterprises of all sorts.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-01-17 10:58:06

For SpaceNut ... The local newspaper published an Associated Press summary article which might be of interest to a member of the forum. I looked for an index for "local news" (about Mars) and found too many citations to be useful. Do you have any guidance? One possibility is to set up a topic for "what local newspapers are saying about Mars", but another is for contributors to try to match the article to an existing topic.

I'm thinking of deleting this post after your reply, because it would have gone via private email if that were available in FluxBB.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-01-17 10:58:38)

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Re: Holidays

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