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#26 2018-11-25 11:27:56

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,627

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

SpaceNut,

Thank you for copying the Solar Orbit Communications Hub post to this topic.

I'd like to clarify that the idea is NOT to put satellites into polar orbit around Mars, although that certainly sounds like a good idea, and there may be a business case for that service.

Instead, the idea is to build on the suggestion of placing a communications hub in the asteroid belt, by placing a communications hub in a Solar orbit, arcing over and under the ecliptic plane, so as to provide line-of-sight laser or radio frequency communication for customers across the Solar System.

Such a facility would serve as a commercial facility in the first instance, but it would appear to be a reasonable location for emergency communication services that will be needed as soon as humans venture far from Earth.

SearchTerm:SolarEMS SolarHUB

Edit: It seems unlikely that NASA has published a solicitation for proposals to set up a Polar Solar communications network.  The guidelines for creating an unsolicited proposal are given here:
https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/pub/pub_libr … -Prop.html

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2018-11-25 15:06:00)

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#27 2018-11-25 12:26:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

So the question is how many would we need in the much larger orbital sol path to correct for all the time communications and for extending the communications network outward from the near asteroid belt location.

Using that net from say the night side of mars would be a time increase out and for the return signal back to earth even with laser optical communications in more delay. so we would still want a mars orbiting system even with the benefit of a sol system.

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#28 2018-11-27 07:17:54

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,149

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

A pair of Mars Trojan satellites would provide comms with Earth for nearly all the time. Except for when both are below the Martian horizon. This may not be practical as their orbits would be severely perturbed by Jupiter and maybe Earth as well, so they would need a lot of fuel for station keeping.

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#29 2018-11-28 20:48:34

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,106

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

Here's a possible replacement for GPS:

Quantum 'compass' technology aids in navigation without use of GPS satellites

The new system requires the use of lasers and cryogenics, so it may not be quite as reliable in the short term.  Then again, there are currently several long duration science experiments in space that use cryogenics as part of the instrumentation or experiment package.

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#30 2018-11-30 14:46:15

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,106

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

In NASA's news conference following InSight's landing, NASA Administrator Bridenstine acknowledged that the agency is looking at a replacement for MRO to provide improved communications capabilities for successive missions to Mars.

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#31 2018-11-30 17:53:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

The little satellites that could did do the what was a stacked deck against them but they did outstandingly.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/ … ight-mars/

I had a good post going and it erased so read the article its got lots of information...

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#32 2018-12-01 19:56:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

Once its in place these are some of the things that it can be used for as Opportunities for development on Mars once we have A1 telecoms

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#33 2018-12-02 17:58:39

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,329

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

I have a question:

Once Space X's Starlink "satellite internet" system is in place would it be able to act as a kind of huge receiver dish for radio telecoms from Mars?

Or is that a naive question?


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#34 2018-12-02 18:08:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

That's an earth facing system....

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#35 2018-12-02 19:17:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,329

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

Well I don't know a lot about radio waves but I am thinking that is a bit of a simplistic view.  I remember back in the day when I listened to short wave radio, there would be occasions in the UK due to conditions in the ionosphere I'd pick up Radio Quito in Ecuador or Radio Beijing loud and clear. Do radio waves "face" a particular direction per se?  You might get a stronger signal from a particular direction, but I am not sure picking up a radio wave from Mars is precluded.

SpaceNut wrote:

That's an earth facing system....


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#36 2018-12-02 19:31:08

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,106

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

Louis,

You can certainly design an antenna to be "directional" when it comes to transmission or reception of RF energy.  As you already noted, the reason you're able to receive signal from certain distant stations here on Earth, relative to where you're located, is the interaction of the radiated power with Earth's ionosphere.  However, signal reflection off of the ionosphere works best in a frequency range well below those used for high data rate communications.

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#37 2018-12-02 22:05:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Mars Communications and Navigation Infrastructure for Crewed Missions

Loius skip was used when power at altitude could not for the short wave length signals of which audio on a megacycle band is not going to be data rates that require gigabyte cycles which is where cell phones are. CB radio also used that and power amplifiers beyond the small 5w which at the time the FCC required for transmission. They transmit straight to the satellite and is then directed towards the target receiver.

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