New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#51 2018-07-23 11:07:36

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,295
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

So the FBI spied on a campaign aide, and this does not count as spying on the Trump campaign?

But the Russians allegedly hacking the DNC counts as interfering in the election, despite the election itself not being compromised?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#52 2018-07-23 18:42:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

FBI gathered evidence of collusion on an American that happened to be part of Trumps inner circle. Page is the only American to have had his communications directly targeted with a FISA warrant in 2016 as part of the Russia probe, officials said. The FBI routinely obtains FISA warrants to monitor the communications of foreign diplomats in the United States,Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), stemmed directly from information conveyed to the FBI by a former British intelligence officer named Christopher Steele. It was this Steele report that included in the infamous “dossier,” multiple reports involving Page. The FBI in April 2017 identified former Donald Trump campaign adviser Carter Page as the target of a Russian espionage operation in New York.  The New York Times identified three of the targets that this FISA warrant was granted. Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, who was ousted in August, and two others. One was Roger Stone, and the other Carter Page. Not one judge but Four Separate FISA Court Judges Approved Renewals To Carter .

On Fox News Sunday, former conservative Fox News host Brit Hume admitted that the FISA warrant to spy on Carter Page was "not illegal." Despite the heavily redacted  FISA warrant against Carter Page. Republicans in Congress are doing everything they can to smear the Mueller investigation into Russian cyber-warfare and Trump's campaign, including demeaning Republican appointees in the FBI, in the Justice Department, and on the courts.

The election compromise was in the data bases that held voter names to places that they could vote at which were corrupted in multiple states in essence reducing votes and denying others the right to vote.

Offline

#53 2018-07-23 20:26:50

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

In plain English,  the charter of Mueller's investigation is to find out what happened in the 2016 election meddling,  who did it,  how did they do it,  and did they have any help on the American side? 

It would appear to me that they have found out what happened,  who did it,  and most of how they did it.  They look to still be working on the question of help from the American side,  and are maybe finally turning up some things of substance.  We'll see. 

Again,  to me it appears that everything is proceeding exactly as it should be,  despite all the complaints from the White House.  The old saying "the guilty dog barks loudest" is no standard of proof,  but it is a fairly good guide for where to investigate. 

These things do take time to resolve properly.  A year to 2 years is not uncommon at all.  Bear in mind that history very clearly shows that independent investigations do a far better job than congressional investigations. 

We may have some significant stuff released by Mueller by the November elections.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

GW

PS -- as for the infamous Steele dossier,  what gets forgotten (deliberately?) is who actually initially started it.  That was the No-Trump part of the GOP,  but they quit on it still-uncompleted,  when he clinched the GOP nomination.  Then it was funded to completion by the Dems,  who were hoping to use it in the general election,  but really did not.  So it got money from both parties.  I don't know how much from each,  but both were involved.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-07-23 20:36:03)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#54 2018-07-24 03:04:10

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,295
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

People also seem to ignore the nationality of Steele. HINT: he is a foreign national. Hired to interfere in the US elections. Hmmm...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#55 2018-07-24 08:58:22

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Steele is a Brit.  Former Brit spook in one of their spy groups.  MI-6,  I think it was,  but I could be wrong.  Until recently,  the UK was thought to be a good ally,  foreigners or not.  Now after Trump publicly trashed Teresa May,  some in the UK may be rethinking that. 

So who really did the US more damage?  Steele?  Or Trump?  Betcha won't hear THAT question asked on "Fox and Friends!"  But you should,  if they weren't just a far-right propaganda-for-fun-and-profit outfit.  They and the rest of Fox News do exactly what Rupert Murdoch set them up to do. 

Believe it or not,  some of the trash-the-Dems stuff coming from Fox actually traces right back to Sputnik,  RT,  or the social media Russian trolls.  There's many echo chambers out there,  and I don't like any of them, left or right.  The same foreign sources provide propaganda for the lefty echo chambers,  too.

Myself,  I prefer real journalism by real journalists,  free to disagree with their employers' ownership.  That's getting harder to find these days.  But if you look at multiple sources,  and ignore the (often inherent) editorial slants,  what they have in common is very probably the truth.  You just don't get that listening to one source,  or over a phone.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#56 2018-07-25 19:36:43

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Judge allows emoluments case against Trump to proceed Constitution's "emoluments" clause, which bans federal officials from accepting benefits from foreign or state governments without congressional approval.

House Republicans introduce articles of impeachment against Rod Rosenstein These are the Republicans introducing the articles of impeachment are Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona, Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, Rep. Paul Gosar of Arizona, Rep. Jody Hice of Georgia, Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida and Rep. Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee.   

The Republicans have particularly expressed concern over the surveillance of onetime Trump campaign aide Carter Page.

The introduction of the articles of impeachment comes shortly after the DOJ released the applications for surveillance warrants filed under the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act.

In the draft document charge Rosenstein of “knowingly and intentionally prevented the production of all documents and information” related to potential abuses of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and the federal government’s initial investigation into possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.

Evidence of wrong doing investigation.... trying to fire DOJ official overseeing special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation amounts to obstruction…

House Republicans are demanding access to classified documents related to special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, including a heavily redacted memo that spells out the scope of the investigation. Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) has one goal in mind, and that is not somebody’s job or the termination of somebody’s job, it is getting the documents and making sure we can do proper oversight.

Offline

#57 2018-07-31 16:58:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Collusion is still happening in that when Trump talks about not letting democrats get in during the Novemeber elections some much so that congressional attacks are happening.

Identified by Sen. Shaheen says senators targeted in "widespread" hacking attempts but also by Microsoft....
Sen. Shaheen says senators targeted in "widespread" hacking attempts and it's an issue that impacts lawmakers in a bipartisan way.

Russia's role in meddling in the 2016 election, intelligence agencies agree that Russia did interfere in the U.S. political process and intends to do so again leading up to the 2018 midterm elections. This attack is still occuring with Facebook detects influence operation ahead of 2018 midterm elections


Following the money trail...

Paul Manafort trial: Government begins calling witnesses with regrets as  Manafort fraud trial: Defense says Manafort trusted wrong person, Rick Gates

Another dumb thing is the release of Plastic Guns... Trump says he "spoke to NRA" about 3D plastic guns with a temporary stay for the blue prints to make them...

With all of the Trump appointments to sway outcomes of decisions the Democrats ramp up fight for Kavanaugh documents as there seems to be a dark closet to this nominee.

Offline

#58 2018-08-18 21:12:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Senate in limbo between session and vacation as Manafort verdict looms

Well no Vacation until Trump gets his way, such that the GOP control remians in tact for Novemeber elections and he gets his pick for the supreme court in. Even after this case is over and a verdict is in there are lots more charges that are still waiting for Manaford.

Truth-Testing Trump’s 250-Plus Attacks on the Russia Inquiry

The federal investigation into whether Russia actively sought to help Donald J. Trump win the White House in 2016 has been hanging over his head since even before the election. As president, he has repeatedly criticized the special counsel inquiry and has questioned whether it is the best use of time and taxpayer funds.

Some of the criticism has amounted to presidential opinion — like in calling James B. Comey “the worst F.B.I. director in history.” On Twitter alone, he has used the words “witch hunt” in over 100 posts.

“That whole situation is a rigged witch hunt,” Mr. Trump told reporters on Friday at the White House. “It’s a totally rigged deal. They should be looking at the other side.”

An analysis by The New York Times found more than 250 examples of exaggerated, misleading or flat-out false claims by Mr. Trump about the Russia investigation.

Not a surprise.....The only thing that the democrats need to do is turn over the servers and sinces its top secret that means a chain of custody is required at all times....

Offline

#59 2018-08-19 14:39:20

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Trump has been somewhat obstructive in the investigation but he also has created a fall guy... White House Counsel, Don McGahn, Has Cooperated Extensively in Mueller Inquiry

Trump declares White House 'most transparent in history' after reports of McGahn-Mueller talks...and in the next breath

Trump invokes Nixon and McCarthy in NYT White House counsel report rant
Don McGahn speaks to Mueller for 30 hours in Russia inquiry, President calls report ‘fake’ but also confirms its substance, Trump’s ‘good person’ defence could affect Manafort jurors

Offline

#60 2018-08-19 19:20:48

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,587

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

SpaceNut,

This entire investigation was a sham to begin with.  We're more than 2 years into this increasingly obvious fraud perpetrated by some members of the previous administration with zero evidence of any collusion between President Trump's campaign and Russia.  For those too politically motivated to know the difference, tax fraud and stealing money from your employer for personal gain, years before a political campaign begins, have nothing to do with elections fraud or collusion with a foreign government.

Online

#61 2018-08-21 16:40:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Manafort found guilty of 8 counts; mistrial declared on 10 others; Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been found guilty of eight financial crime charges in the first trial victory for Robert Mueller's team.

The verdict was part of a stunning one-two punch of bad news for the White House, coming as the president's former lawyer, Michael Cohen, was pleading guilty in New York as part of a separate deal with prosecutors.

Michael Cohen tells judge he'll plead guilty: Trump's former attorney was tried for bank and tax fraud, along with his role in arranging payments to women who had affairs with the president.

Investigators have been probing whether Cohen committed bank or tax fraud in connection with his financial and business dealings including loan activities. Investigators are also interested in whether Cohen violated any campaign finance-related laws by helping arrange payment deals to secure the silence of women who claimed they had affairs with Mr. Trump. Michael Cohen's lawyer is suggesting President Donald Trump should face criminal charges for directing his longtime "fixer" to make hush-money payments to two women to influence the election. The 51-year-old Cohen said in federal court in New York on Tuesday that he made the payments in coordination with Trump, who wasn't named, to influence the election. Both women claimed Trump had affairs with them, which he denies.

Microsoft uncovers more Russian attacks ahead of midterm elections: The company said it thwarted an operation linked to Russian intelligence targeting the US Senate and conservative think tanks.

Offline

#62 2018-08-22 03:43:57

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,295
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

I wouldn't call it a victory for Manafort, since it has nothing to do with his investigation. A victory would be charging someone with a crime that he's actually investigating, no?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#63 2018-08-22 09:26:05

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Muller's investigation was chartered to do 4 things:  (1) find out what happened,  (2) who did it,  (3) how it was done,  and (4) did they have any help on the US side?  He has a lot of info about the first 3 coming from the intelligence agencies.  Only the 4th has anything to do with the misnomer "collusion".  Any other wrongdoing uncovered along the way gets turned over to DOJ or FBI as appropriate. 

And that is exactly what has actually been happening.  All in all,  I'd have to say Muller is doing his job correctly,  and that the final outcome will be of value to the country.  This is no witch hunt or fraud or sham;  it is something that needs doing.  People are too impatient,  these things take time,  if done right.  We will know soon enough. 

Meanwhile,  whenever Muller's team reaches some milestone,  the protests from the White House get noisier.  That effect surely does resemble the old saying "the guilty dog barks loudest".  That is NO standard of guilt or innocence,  but it IS a fairly good guide for whether and where to investigate further.  This is particularly true with respect to the White House,  because the bulk of the Presidents claims about this,  and many other things,  have proven false when fact-checked.

I think Giuliani is right about one thing:  Muller is setting a perjury trap for Trump.  Precisely because Trump is a proven chronic liar,  and chronic liars are very vulnerable to perjury.

GW

edit update 8-23-18:  oops,  sorry,  misspelled what should be Mueller as Muller.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-08-23 13:21:45)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#64 2018-08-23 19:42:36

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,587

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

GW,

We already know what happened.

1. Hillary Clinton's campaign paid Fusion GPS to fabricate some lies about President Trump.  The work product of Fusion GPS is better known as the "Steele Dossier".  It was fabricated with the help of the Russians.  Whether or not Hillary Clinton even knew about this before it happened is unknown at this point.  This is the kind of stuff the Podesta Group would cook up.  Hillary is only interested in Hillary and it's doubtful she signed off on this in light of that fact.  Unfortunately, she's already proven she doesn't care about the law.

2. The Steele Dossier was then used as fraudulent "evidence" to obtain a warrant to spy on President Trump's political campaign with the blessing of a FISA Court judge because it was not properly vetted by the FBI.

3. The Russian lawyer, Veselnitskaya, who set up a meeting with Trump's campaign under the pretense of having "dirt" on Hillary Clinton's campaign later met with Trump's son and some of the campaign officials in Trump Tower.

4. Before and after the meeting with President Trump's son, Veselnitskaya also met with a Fusion GPS executive, which was also recorded by the FBI.  I'm sure those two meetings had nothing whatsoever to do with her meeting with the Trump campaign.  It's probably just another one of those "greatest coincidences in modern history".

5. The media picked up the "story" / fairy tale and ran with it because they hate President Trump, even though a handful at CNN knew full well that it was just a failed trolling attempt by the Clinton Campaign from leaks that came from both the FBI and DoJ officials.  That'd be why one of them said the story was a "big nothing burger".  It remains so today, but they're milking it for all it's worth for ratings about because they hate President Trump.

6. The guy that recommended firing former FBI Director Comey, AG Rosenstein, chose Mueller to investigate President Trump for the crimes committed by the Obama Administration and Clinton Campaign.  The Democrats never said one word about the fact that the person appointed by President Trump as AG unilaterally selected the special investigator.  They didn't make a fuss about it because they already knew there was nothing to find because the Clinton Campaign fabricated political "dirt" and the FBI withheld material evidence about what they were using as the basis for conducting an investigation against one of their political foes.  The entire point was to interfere with President Trump's election campaign and administration, rather than conduct any meaningful investigation into possible elections of the sort that only the Democrats and their friends, the Russians, were involved in.

That's the plain and ugly truth of this "matter", as Hillary Clinton would call it.  You can choose to believe that or ignore it, but it makes no difference to me.  A personal belief about someone you dislike is never a substitute for the truth.  I'm pretty sure that's what we're going to find out as more of this investigation is leaked by unscrupulous lawyers.  Time will tell.  I'll eat my crow if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

Online

#65 2018-08-24 10:31:51

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,032
Website

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Actually,  the Steele Dossier got its start funded by the Never-Trump Republicans.  It was never completed because Trump clinched the nomination.  Once the Democrats found out about it,  they funded its completion,  but never really used it during the 2016 campaign.  I don't know why,  but I suspect that it just wasn't completed in time to use. 

I quite agree with your assessment of Hillary Clinton.  About as crooked as they come. 

I already described what Mueller's investigation is all about.  There's more to it than what you described.  I suspect it will reveal more wrongdoing with the Russians on the Clinton side than the Trump side,  as you say.  But we'll see soon enough,  unless Trump manages to derail the thing,  which would be the obstruction of justice that would be grounds for impeachment. 

I think there was plenty of wrongdoing by both the Trump and Clinton campaigns.  To me,  that was a rock-and-a-hard place choice between two great evils.  We can differ on which is/was the greater evil,  but that matters little now.  Hopefully,  Mueller will uncover most of what both did wrong.   

I agree he seems focused more on Trump than Clinton so far.  I suspect that's because Trump is president and Clinton is not.  After he gets done with Trump,  I hope he investigates Clinton.  It took more than 2 years for Starr to investigate Bill Clinton;  Mueller investigating 2 figures may take close to 4 years.  Who knows?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-08-24 10:33:07)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#66 2018-08-24 16:53:59

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,587

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

GW,

I'm aware of who first funded the Steele Dossier.  However, the FBI Agent who opened the investigation into President Trump was named Peter Strzok.  The Steele Dossier, which was never properly vetted by the FBI, was used to obtain the FISA Court Order for the wiretap to spy on President Trump.  If there was a legitimate law enforcement purpose for that wire tap, thus far it's never generated anything actionable against President Trump.

Strzok was also later used by the Mueller investigation.  He was later fired by both Mueller and the FBI after he and his mistress were caught exchanging text messages defamatory to President Trump while he was employed by the FBI.  In the Federal Government, you can disagree with your boss and say whatever you want to him or her in private, but you may not openly criticize him or her for political purposes simply because of your personal dislike for him or her.  That is most especially true for military and law enforcement officers.

You'll have to forgive me if I think something stinks there.

If President Trump is guilty of something, apart from being a philanderer, which I think we were already well aware of, then someone needs to present evidence of that to Congress.  Congress can then vote to clear or impeach the President.  That is how our system works, whether we like it or not.  I'm starting to think he'll be out of office before this investigation has been completed and at the end of the process, it'll turn up nothing indicating he's guilty of colluding or conspiring with the Russians to do anything.  He's been investigated longer than he's been in office and thus far it's generated a lot of nothing.  On that note, I think President Trump has been his own worst enemy in this process.

But yes, let's investigate both of them just to see who did what.  I'm just not interested in any further intimation or innuendo from the media or other third parties of wrongdoings based on "anonymous sources".  If anyone has real evidence, then show it.  The absence of evidence is not "possible guilt" nor "possible innocence", it's just "no evidence".  In the real world, however, "no evidence" usually (not always, obviously) means "no crime".

Online

#67 2018-08-24 19:58:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

The house memo asserts the FBI and DOJ scrubbed the Steele dossier of relevant political context..with the warrant being labeled top secret..a heavily-redacted version of the FISA warrant application against former Trump foreign policy advisor Carter Page.

The Trump Dossier: What We Know and Who Paid for It

During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2% … ia_dossier
As of May 2018, former career intelligence officer James Clapper stated that "more and more" of the dossier has been validated over time..

So the research came from primary campaign dirt digging so is that a crime for either Hillary and others that are named as funding its research? Seems that only the actual crimes that it contains are and not whom asked for it. This is the art of investigation in finding what is burried in the closet that you do not want others to find as its quite damming when found. Mueller's firing of Strzok was the right thing to do as those that do prosecute must be unbiased but the research of a factural report is not changed even if followed by those that are as the evidence is not changed in this case as the bias was not for Trump as to throw the report into not being factural like the jurer did for the Manford case as a lone hold out.

Trump is already guilty of the Cohen collusion on the American leg of his campaign and we will find in time if the Manaford leg or others are the Russian leg of that collusion. As one Trump support indicated via the tweets that a pardon of manaford for loyalty is coming then Manaford will not flip as he knows he will escape punishment for any russian connection. So the proof will need to come from others that are snarled in the net of the investigation.

Trump’s team, which was led by campaign manager Paul Manafort (a former consultant for pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine), Manafort stepped down in August 2016 as campaign manager and the campaign steadily distanced itself from Page.

The probe of Podesta and his Democratic-leaning lobbying firm grew out of Mueller's inquiry into the finances of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, according to the sources. As special counsel, Mueller has been tasked with investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. The Podesta Group and Mercury LLC, worked in Washington with Manafort partner Rick Gates.

Trump has been threatening the AG Sessions if he does not protect him by delving into the democrats corruption that he will fire him and at some point this is obstruction when he does do this. There was and has been numerous attempts to investigate the other side.

Benghazi killed four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador to Libya, on September 11, 2012. To which the claims are that Hillary had
been using a personal email server during her time as Obama’s secretary of state that held unmarked 348 Benghazi-related messages later marked among the 30,000 emails handed over by Clinton in December 2014. To which even after closing and reopening the investigation said that while she was stupid about handling and that there were no charges to be made....

Offline

#68 2018-08-25 05:11:18

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,587

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

The Washington Free Beacon didn't open a federal investigation and didn't apply for a warrant to a FISA Court.  Peter Strzok was the FBI agent who did.  I think it's safe to say that Strzok was politically-motivated from his text exchanges with his mistress.  The warrant was "top secret" and "heavily redacted" because it would reveal the name of the Democrat Party supporter who proffered the Steele Dossier as evidence to obtain the warrant.  Secret court proceedings with secret evidence...  Yeah.

Since a member of the Clinton campaign paid money to Fusion GPS, I'm guessing they weren't paying money for nothing.  FEC has already ruled that paying a foreign national for information on political campaigns is against the law.  So yes, that's a crime when a member of Clinton's political campaign paid for it, as defined by the FEC.  If any Republican political campaign member paid Fusion GPS, then that was also a crime.  Since former President Obama entered office, we've entered into the era of selective prosecution of federal crimes based upon political party affiliation.  Basically, we're becoming a banana republic.

Paying money to someone is "settling out of court" when a Democrat named Clinton did it, but "collusion" when a Republican named "Trump" did it?  Please.  Manafort was convicted for crimes he committed related to tax and bank fraud, much like Bernie Madoff, none of which had any connection to President Trump.  If Manafort actually knew of something illegal that President Trump's campaign did, then before he was charged and convicted of federal tax and bank fraud crimes was the right time to "spill the beans" about this nonexistent Trump-Russia collusion.  President Trump has been investigated by Democrats longer than he's been in office and the best they can come up with is paying money to a porn star?  Weak sauce.

Zero mention of the fact that Manafort was charged with acting as a foreign agent without registering as such and Tony Podesta has yet to be charged for the exact same crime.  There's also zero mention of the fact that Podesta was Manafort's boss when he was working for the former Russian President of Ukraine.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  Charge Tony Podesta with the same crime that Manafort was charged with and I'll believe this "investigation" is something other than a sad attempt to smear President Trump because Clinton lost the election.

Regarding Clinton's E-Mails, that was the first time in history that the US AG couldn't explain why the FBI, rather than she, decided there was not enough evidence to prosecute an unmistakably clear case of theft and transfer of classified information from US DoS servers to the former Secretary of State's private E-Mail server.  The former FBI Director testified before Congress in open session that Hillary Clinton received E-Mail with classification markings on it when she claimed there were no such markings on the E-Mail she received.  After her personal E-Mail server was requested as evidence in the investigation, she erased the hard disk using a program she thought would make the contents unrecoverable, but apparently the FBI knew more about recovering data than she thought they would.  Her personal devices were smashed to bits, then handed over to the FBI.  Everyone involved who sent classified information to her after doing a poor job of stripping the classification markings was given immunity and no charges were ever filed against her or the people who sent classified information to her personal E-Mail server.

The longer this obvious farce goes on, the deeper the hole will be that the Democrats are digging for themselves.  You can't fool everyone all the time, but I don't think the Democrats have learned that lesson yet.

Online

#69 2018-08-25 13:15:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Not a Sham investigation as the CIA has indicated that the Dossier is factural in content..

Tony Podesta is under the investigation umbrella as well.... Mueller is digging into whether the Podesta Group violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act, People who refuse to register can face five years in prison. Manafort’s consulting company registered three years late, retroactively filing several forms. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05 … arged.html
Former lobbyist Tony Podesta, others under investigation over alleged foreign work

So a registered versus unregistered to allow contact with foriegn nationals....

Paying money to someone is "settling out of court" as Trump has done and still is doing these are still crimes that have been dropped as part of the settlement but are still identifiers of a crime that was committed.

The actual located emails was even lower than I indicated earlier by the State Department as about 30 emails involving the 2012 attack on U.S. compounds in Benghazi, Libya, from 6 years ago out of the deleted emails recovered by the FBI from Hillary Clinton’s private email server. Of course Trump says he will go after Hillary....this is the classic miss direction counter punching that he does as Investigations plunge into personal territory that Trump once declared off-limits The investigation will get all that are part of the ring of collusion in time.

Offline

#70 2018-08-26 09:28:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

‘He can’t get rid of any of this’: Trump’s wall of secrecy erodes amid growing legal challenges

cooperation with prosecutors shows, a growing number of legal challenges — including the Russia investigation by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and a raft of lawsuits and state-level probes in New York — are eroding that barrier.

The result has been a moment where Trump seems politically wounded, as friends turn and embarrassing revelations about his alleged affairs and his charity trickle out, uncontained. In coming months, certain cases could force Trump’s company to open its books about foreign government customers, or compel the president to testify about his relationships with ­women.

Follow the money....

The crimes that are comitted and then settled will need to be really followed even if there is a settlement and charged appropriately. Hopefully others will follow
California Bans Secret Settlements that would ban secret settlements and non-disclosure agreements in cases of sexual harassment that require victims to stay quiet about crimes. Proactive would be nice to rid the corruption that has fallon on the US at all levels of life.

GOP divided over midterm threat posed by Trump's legal travails

At steak is

Republicans are divided over whether President Trump's escalating legal problems pose a major threat to their Senate and House majorities in November.

The emerging consensus is that the House GOP is likely to bear the brunt of the damage as the party seeks to defend 25 seats carried by Hillary Clinton in 2016, while Democrats need to flip 23 to capture the lower chamber.

"This is serious," added Flake, who's retiring in early January.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) warned, "It's not helpful to Republicans."

"It's just one more narrative of people around the president doing bad things,"

Offline

#71 2018-08-26 09:59:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Many of his inner circle are telling President Trump 'Don't fire, don't pardon, don't tweet and don't testify' Americans 'deserve to know' if president as corrupt as people around him who pleaded guilty

“If there were evidence to show that President Trump was involved, conspired with Michael Cohen for a campaign finance violation, would that be a high crime and misdemeanor?”  “He's not above the law," "But I think that we don't have enough evidence yet … We don't want to be as reckless with the facts as he is. I think, thorough investigations, putting forth an impenetrable case to the American people, doing it in a bipartisan way, is the proper way to do this. But we're not there yet."

I can hear the chants of lock him up....

It is hard to clear the washington swamp when its filled with more alligators.....

Trump signed three executive orders in May that administration officials said would give government agencies greater ability to remove employees with "poor" performance, obtain "better deals" in union contracts and require federal employees with union responsibilities to spend less time on union work. A U.S. federal judge on Saturday rejected key elements of President Donald Trump's executive orders relating to federal labor relations, the orders cannot "eviscerate the right to bargain collectively" as envisioned in a long-standing federal statute.
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, said in a court order that Trump's orders — which also would reduce the amount of time low-performing employees had to improve their performance before being fired — "undermine federal employees' right to bargain collectively."

https://www.cpms.osd.mil/Subpage/NewBeginnings/NBHome

Gives the means to identify those that excel and those that do poorly though there are many issues with it.

New Beginnings initiative, which will require more frequent reviews between supervisors and employees and a linkage between performance and rewards such as bonuses and promotions. This is meant to take out the opinion of value and place quantitative measurement to base merit on.

Offline

#72 2018-08-26 16:37:18

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,587

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

SpaceNut,

Since the people President Trump hired also used to work for the Clintons, they probably are corrupt.  Michael Cohen is being represented by Lanny Davis, who has also represented Bill and Hillary Clinton during their legal "matters".  President Trump is pretty near to being the only honest politician in Washington, which is why people so desperately want to accuse him of the things they are guilty of.

Online

#73 2018-08-27 16:43:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Well I would say thats being smart to think that those that had these same laywers whom Trump feels got away with there crimes would also make good laywers for those that did do the crime in hopes that they would have the same success.
Cohen's lawyer is already trying to back track on the statements of trump involvement from a person that has already plead guilty which is just more lying as directed by Trump I am sure. Trump lies so often that he must believe he is telling the truth. We do have pinochio's topic under this forum area.

Now Bill Clinton should have been arrested for abuse of power and influnce over his crime. Whitewater is a differnet problem which was settled i think.

Here is both records for Trump and Hillary for comparison....

Trump's 3,500 lawsuits unprecedented for a presidential nominee in federal and state courts during the past three decades. They range from skirmishes with casino patrons to million-dollar real estate suits to personal defamation lawsuits.

Just since he announced his candidacy a year ago, at least 70 new cases have been filed, about evenly divided between lawsuits filed by him and his companies and those filed against them. And the records review found at least 50 civil lawsuits remain open even as he moves toward claiming the nomination at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland in seven weeks. On Tuesday, court documents were released in one of the most dramatic current cases, filed in California by former students accusing Trump University of fraudulent and misleading behavior.

Well Hillary is not blame free either as Clinton has been named in more than 900 lawsuits, mostly as a defendant, a review of state and federal court... seems there is no legal affairs page for Hillary other than a whitewaters page.

So quite a gross level of disparity to both but Trump is by and large the worst with a factor of 4 plus multiplier....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aff … nald_Trump

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l … nald_Trump

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tr … llegations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_bet … _officials

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ … _in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ … _elections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme … _officials

Democrats demurred on Sunday on whether Donald Trump has committed impeachable offenses after he was implicated last week in a potential crime, but promised vigorous investigations if the party takes control of the U.S. House in the midterm elections.

Republicans on Capitol Hill are circulating a spreadsheet ahead of the November midterms listing investigations Democrats are considering launching if they take back the House, according to a new Axios report.

The document reportedly lists investigations Democrats have already called for but have been unable to move forward with due to Republican opposition.

The list includes probes into White House senior adviser Jared Kushner's ethics law compliance, the Trump administration's family separation policy, President Trump's tax returns, the firing of former FBI Director James Comey.

President Trump should be more worried about prosecutors in New York than about the ongoing Russia probe led by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

The president’s legal quandary in New York, meanwhile, continues to deepen after federal prosecutors there granted immunity last week to Allen Weisselberg, chief financial officer for the Trump Organization, and David Pecker, a longtime Trump ally who is the executive of the National Enquirer magazine’s parent company.

Offline

#74 2018-08-30 20:34:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Not even in the ground and John McCain Sounds the Alarm on Trump and Russia in New Documentary 'Active Measures'

That President Donald Trump and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, are far more intertwined than you know.

“The fact that there was an attack on the fundamental — the absolute fundamental — a free and fair election, should alarm all of us,” McCain says in the exclusive clip below. He’s referring to the reports from August of 2016 that Russian hackers were targeting voter registration databases in states like Arizona. The film ends with a stark warning from McCain, Clinton and others about the near certainty that Russia will continue to interfere with American elections this year, in 2020 and beyond. Taking one last shot at Trump for failing to take his own “active measures” against Russia for attacking American democracy, McCain says, “As long as people can do things without penalty, they’re going to continue to do them.”

Offline

#75 2018-09-03 13:10:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,235

Re: Mueller's Russian Investigation

Kavanaugh is Trumps pick, it seems that he is not squeaky clean and with 1,000 of document request it seems that Trump is impeding giving a proper investigation a much needed step in confirmation to the supreme court.

It seems that Attorney Bill Burck a GOP lawyer caught in crossfire on Kavanaugh, Russia probe

More leads into the collusion.....Russian firm indicted in special counsel probe cites Kavanaugh decision to argue that charge should be dismissed

Previous decisions seem to make the use of first amendment rights of free speech as foriegn nationals....

David Brock I knew Brett Kavanaugh during his years as a Republican operative. Don't let him sit on the Supreme Court. We were part of a close circle of cynical hard-right operatives being groomed for much bigger things.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB