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#51 2018-09-17 04:01:33

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,145
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Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Globalism would require international rules to govern how we do business here at home. No true free trader supports that. And Trump’s anti-globalist alternative, tariffs, is far more controlling than any international free trade agreement.

So, the Trans-Pacific Partnership was *just* about abolishing tariffs, nothing more? That's news to me. It'll be news to the people who wrote it, as well.

Free trade =/= free markets. Why should American businesses be undercut by companies that don't face the same regulatory environment? Why forbid workers from working for less than $7.25 per hour, and then let companies off-shore work to a country where they can pay people $2.00 per hour?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#52 2018-09-19 05:54:20

elderflower
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Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,149

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

First it was Japan, then Taiwan, Hong Kong and South Korea, now it is China, next will be SE asia and India. What did the first four do? They tried by the most expeditious means to move themselves to a first world standard of living. That included copying and subcontract manufacture.. almost anything to employ people to earn hard currency. They were anathematised whilst they were doing this, but not any more. The spotlight has now fallen on the next nation to employ an effective catch up strategy. In another generation or two it will have done so, provided that it doesn't revert to stupidity and socialism, and will no longer be the bad guy.
It isn't surprising that millions upon millions of people around the world will strive to achieve the kind of living standards that they see on the screen, and no amount of tariffs and other restrictive trade practices will do anything but slow the process and impoverish America at the same time. America needs to move forwards with better education and productive advances and stop worrying about who stamps knives and forks from stainless strip.

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#53 2018-09-19 15:16:46

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,145
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Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Yes. Because everyone is capable of getting a job in the tech industry. Because it's not like we plan on automating a load of jobs. Because the American governments priority should be uplifting foreigners, not Americans.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#54 2018-09-19 17:21:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

That was the business owners trying to make a greater profit that was driving the out sourcing to other nations. But the business that are here on American soil now are feeling the effects and so will we with its continued upstaging boasting and trying to win at a tariff.

Walmart as well as other retailers and consumer goods companies, including Ace Hardware and Joann fabric and craft stores, also lobbied the administration. Even a competitor Target (TGT) said the tariffs will "hurt American consumers," and said working families will pay more for school and college essentials like notebooks, calculators, binders and desks.

These are just some of the possible items that a tariff might be levied on. Christmas lights, shampoo, dog food, luggage, mattresses, handbags, backpacks, vacuum cleaners, bicycles, cooking grills, cable cords and air conditioners.


https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen- … rted-goods

Good question but what about all the other business that will be effected....

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/en … .17.18.pdf

Of course we would buy american if there is a product that costs simular and is available in the store that you shop at but that is not the case very often....

Political rhetoric fails to persuade consumers to buy American

https://money.cnn.com/interactive/news/ … index.html

Round 1 rebutals from China:
https://qz.com/1242652/china-tariffs-th … -of-goods/

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#55 2018-09-20 03:10:43

elderflower
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Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,149

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Obviously, not everyone can be employed in high end jobs in high tech industries, but those workers still require nice fresh sandwiches for lunch and you can't source them from China. So there will always be more basic activities in the economy. The problem is that rich people are able to concentrate vast wealth to themselves (aided by corrupt governments and parties) and get away with paying the basic workers too little so that the latter have nothing to look forward to under the current system except a non stop hard grind, a rented house or trailer, a second hand junk yard for transport and an inadequate pension at the end of it, whilst their kids go to bad schools and end up in the same situation. It is the dearth of hope that has led to the present situation all over the West, and the way out of it is to give people a visible ladder that they can climb and the means to climb it.

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#56 2018-09-26 17:10:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Onr could say I told you so.. but I will not It was only a decade ago that Obama had to do alot of bailing out of business that were to large to fail in order to put our nation out of a resescion. Now thanks to a tarrif war  that same business is once agian on the downward slide.
Ford says metal tariffs have cost them $1 billion in profits

Ford Motor Co. Chief Executive Officer Jim Hackett encouraged the Trump administration to resolve trade disputes quickly or it could do “more damage” to his company, which is already suffering...

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#57 2018-09-27 20:12:56

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Remember pre election the promise to save jobs and to give them favorite status..
Indiana governor ordered to turn over Carrier Corp. email exchange between Pence, Trump

Monday’s order by Marion Superior Court Judge Heather Welch gives Holcomb’s office 30 days to disclose any communications sent between Nov. 14-29, 2016, about meetings between Pence, Trump and Carrier, which operates an Indianapolis furnace factory.

The not-for-profit Citizens Action Coalition first requested the documents in December 2016 after Trump and Pence struck a deal with Carrier to keep the plant open for 10 years and employ 1,100 workers there.

Carrier announced in February 2016 that it would close the Indianapolis factory, cut about 1,400 production jobs and move some production to Mexico in a shift that was expected to save $65 million annually.

Trump frequently criticized the closure plans during the 2016 campaign. He traveled to the Indianapolis factory three weeks after his election win to announce a tax-incentive agreement partially reversing the closure.

Under that deal, Carrier pledged to keep nearly 1,100 jobs in Indianapolis, including some 800 furnace production jobs it planned to cut with the outsourcing. But about 550 jobs were still eliminated at the plant.

Carrier also received up to $7 million in conditional state tax incentives and training grants in the arrangement, and agreed to invest $16 million in upgrades and automation.

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#58 2018-10-05 08:37:58

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Sears, Kmart to close more stores ahead of holiday season at least six Sears stores and five Kmart stores. The most recent round of closings, announced Aug. 23, included 13 Kmart stores and 33 Sears locations that are set to shut down in November.
Sears is closing more stores, with some layoffs starting 2 days before Christmas

Layoffs at a store in Poughkeepsie, New York, that employs 71 people are scheduled to begin December 23, according to a filing.The company had cut its store count to 866 stores as of September 13, down from 1,980 stores in 2013.

Here's the new list of closings:

Sears

    Golf Mill Shopping Center, 400 Golf Mill Ctr, Niles, Illinois
    Eastern Hills Mall, 4545 Transit Rd, Williamsville, New York
    The Mall at Fairfield Commons, 2727 Fairfield Commons, Beavercreek, Ohio
    San Jacinto Mall, 1000 San Jacinto Mall, Baytown, Texas
    Broadway Square, 4701 S Broadway Ave, Tyler, Texas
    Grand Central Mall, 500 Grand Central Ave, Vienna, West Virginia

Kmart

    1500 Fitzgerald Dr, Pinole, California
    6865 Hollister Ave, Goleta, California
    635 Dutchess Turnpike, Poughkeepsie, New York
    6626 Metropolitan Avenue, Middle Village, New York
    4251 John Marr Drive, Annandale, Virginia

Negative jobs growth...

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#59 2018-10-05 13:46:06

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Another business that is failing under Trump Mattress Firm files for bankruptcy protection to get out of about 700 unfavorable leases.

The company said it will quickly close 200 underperforming stores and make decisions about whether to close or maintain the other 500 stores in the coming weeks. It currently has more than 3,300 stores in the United States.

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#60 2018-10-05 14:35:50

kbd512
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Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

Equitable trade agreements promote economic growth.  Any suggestion to the contrary ignores objective historical reality.

The traditional brick-and-mortar stores are rapidly going the way of the dodo bird.  Most household items can now be purchased online for the same or less money than what is possible if the same items were purchased from local stores.  It's just another example of how the internet has changed the global economy.  Buying from a middle-man, or middle-woman, is done only when immediate access to the good or service is more important than overall economy of the transaction.

Elderflower,

Having nice versus functional things isn't much of an argument.  A functional vehicle is required.  A nice vehicle is not.  I have clothes that are older than my kids.  If they ain't full of holes, then I don't "fix it" because it doesn't need to be "fixed" with "new stuff".  A few holes in unimportant areas are, well, unimportant to anyone more concerned about the utility of the clothing, versus how "fancy" they look.

The schools, especially universities, are all run by liberal regressives who are more enamored with spewing their ideology than solving the very real problem of how to educate people with finite resources.  In decades past, American children had far fewer things (in every aspect of life, including education), yet they were far more creative, productive, and resourceful.  Americans now have more "stuff" than any person actually needs (notice I didn't say "want"), yet their creativity, productivity, and resourcefulness has largely dropped off a cliff.

All inequality is not due to oppression.  Most of it is pure human stupidity (thinking we're smarter than we really are, all evidence to the contrary), laziness (inexcusably lazy intellectual arguments for poor performance in life), and lusting after things that will NEVER make them happy (new cell phone, laptop, big screen TV, fancy car, fancy house, the list is virtually endless).  Long term happiness and prosperity is not tied to an excess of stuff, after basic needs have been met.  Relationships become far more important than things, as you go through life.

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#61 2018-10-05 15:54:21

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,145
Website

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I'm sure I read stories about brick and mortar stores going to the wall before last year. I guess that was Obama's fault back then.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#62 2018-10-05 16:32:38

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Terraformer,

The progression of technology is not anyone's fault.  However, failing to take technological progress into account when making business decisions can and often does deal a fatal blow to the business model that previously made the business profitable (profits are a good indicator of success, to we "evil" capitalists).  Times are changing and the rate of change has only increased in recent years.  A successful business has to use the right tactics and overall strategy to remain successful.

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#63 2018-10-05 17:01:40

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The tarrifs have now been replaced once removed with the new deal Trump Hails Revised Nafta Trade Deal, and Sets Up a Showdown With China

A significant portion of the vehicles would also have to be assembled by workers earning at least $16 an hour — a wage floor intended to increase jobs in the United States and Canada, where wages are higher than in Mexico.

So we are telling a nation in the agreement that they need to pay higher wages for these goods...and will mean higher prices to the american made goods from these parts. So we will not have jobs coming to america but they will be going elsewhere still but the reality of the deal is Trump’s new NAFTA is pretty much the same as the old one — but at what cost?

The replacement of North American Free Trade Agreement with United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) is being seen for what it is....

This new agreement does, it is true, include some important changes to the rules about manufacturing cars and trucks, though it isn’t yet clear exactly who will benefit. It’s also made some technical alterations to the dairy market and to the rules governing disputes. Canada and Mexico will have some extra protection against U.S. car tariffs; on the other hand, Mexico will be required to make it easier for workers to organize trade unions.

All three sides gained some things. All three sides conceded some things. The upshot: North American free trade will continue, more or less, as it has done for many years, regulated by the agreement formerly known as NAFTA. The only truly radical difference is that Trump’s negative, angry language has been replaced by happy, enthusiastic language.

So while we will want to buy american its going to cost more and not less under this treaty....

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#64 2018-10-05 21:23:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Ford, an Automaker at a Crossroads, Seeks Cuts and Partners

The automaker’s bottom line is weakening despite record sales of its pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles. In August, its credit rating was cut to one level above junk status. And Ford’s stock price has fallen to its lowest point since 2009, when the United States economy was in a deep recession.
In the latest move to cut costs, Ford is reorganizing its worldwide salaried work force of 70,000 with the goal of having a leaner staff by the second quarter of 2019.

Ford to tighten operations, cut salaried workforce

The largest car manufacturing employer in America, Ford has more than 85,000 U.S. employees, and 201,000 globally, including an estimated 70,000 salaried workers.

No one can say yet how many jobs will be impacted. We need to dig into the process deeper before we know the absolutes..

Well 2009 marked the year that auto makers had to be bailed out with government loans and we are now back to that same point wow....

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#65 2018-10-06 13:57:34

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The big brick and mortar stores are being replaced by Dollar General throws a lifeline to hard-pressed communities. But at what cost? along with other variations of the name containing the word Dollar....

BBO08e2.img?h=443&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

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#66 2018-10-09 22:09:54

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Removal of regulations and safety was to keep coal alive coal is good.....

Westmoreland Coal Co., the Colorado-based owner of three coal mines in Montana, filed for bankruptcy protection in federal court Tuesday. Westmoreland, which operates mines across the U.S. and Canada, is the fourth major coal company to file for bankruptcy in the past three years, joining Peabody Energy Corp., Arch Coal and Alpha Natural Resources.

Englewood-based Westmoreland Coal files for bankruptcy

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/o … ip-suppli/

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#67 2018-10-11 19:01:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The start of the slide seems to be beginning... US jobless claims rise unexpectedly in latest week

Initial claims for unemployment benefits increased 7,000 to a seasonally adjusted 214,000 for the week ended Oct. 6, the Labor Department reported. New applications for state unemployment benefits rose last week but remain near half-century lows. Initial jobless claims rose to a seasonally adjusted 214,000, up 7,000 from the previous week, the Labor Department said on Thursday.

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#68 2018-10-17 19:38:07

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Sears, Kmart's parent company, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Monday. The company says it will close 142 stores before the end of the year… Consumers can expect big going-out-of-business sales at 77 Sears and 65 Kmart stores as Sears Holdings Corp. (SHLD), once the largest retailer in the U.S., filed for bankruptcy this week.

Instead of owning up to the problem caused by the tax cuts, tariff war and now they want to cut Trump asks Cabinet secretaries for 5% budget cut


McConnell calls rising budget deficit ‘very disturbing ...blaming rising budget deficit on big federal spending programs Social Security, Medicare for the problem....

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/de … 8b587437ad

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#69 2018-10-18 17:12:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

"But at some point we will have to sit down on a bipartisan basis and address the long-term drivers of the debt."

The Treasury Department this week reported a 2018 budget deficit of $779 billion, the highest since 2012.

The report cited higher military spending as a reason for the increase and showed government revenues were flat after deep tax cuts pushed through late last year by Republicans, despite a growing economy and rising spending levels.

McConnel has said that the GOP has no desire to tackle the deficit.....

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#70 2018-10-19 08:14:38

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

That's a completely valid criticism of the Republican Party.  It's also a completely valid criticism of the Democrat Party.  Neither party is interested in scaling back their pet spending programs.  The current levels of military and social welfare spending are unsustainable.  I wish there was a vibrant Independent Party to take an axe to the federal budget.  Absent strong, sustained economic growth, it's all too much.

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#71 2018-10-19 18:47:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ … ted_States

Looking at the GPD and the rising deficit means that these are not related...

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
Of course there are those that are questioning whether the US Budget Deficit by Year, Compared to GDP, Debt Increase, and Events
Is the U.S. Deficit Really That Bad?

This article gives the cause and effect taken for the deficit....

https://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-d … states.php

Surplus seems possible to creat but what are the cause which give us the effect.....

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#72 2018-10-20 21:11:49

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The hiring signs are out but the turn over is just as high as the hiring has been....
America's biggest employer isn't hiring seasonal employees this year. Here's the reason why

With a new slew of perks, pay, and benefits to lure workers, retailers across the country are pulling out all the stops to lure temporary employees ahead of the busy holiday season. second year in a row, Walmart won’t be hiring tens of thousands of seasonal employees to provide extra support during the holidays. Instead, Walmart is forgoing the long-standing practice in favor of giving it’s full- and part-time employees more hours and opportunities to earn extra cash.

Nice jesture but these are people that do not work as full time to begin with and while they will want the hours they still will not change in status even if they do get a 40 hour work week....just as soon as the season is over so are the hours...

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#73 2018-10-21 10:52:44

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,145
Website

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I wonder how much money the US economy loses by operating military bases in Europe? At least if the bases are in America, the money is spent in America, and some of it makes it's way back to the federal government to pay for the bases...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#74 2018-10-21 13:26:36

elderflower
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Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,149

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

There may be compensation payments. The British used to get them for the bases that they maintained in Germany.

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#75 2018-10-31 17:38:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,734

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Keep drinking the coolaid...

Auto tariffs would cause mass layoffs: Experts

The first layoffs from Trump’s tariffs are here

The Tax Foundation predicts 48,585 job losses from the tariffs Trump has already enacted on imports of washing machines, solar panels, steel, aluminum and $50 billion in Chinese products. That figure would soar to over 250,000 job losses if Trump moves forward with tariffs on another $200 billion of Chinese products, the Tax Foundation said

Trump's Tariffs Have Led to Layoffs at U.S. Manufacturers

Trump’s recent slew of overseas tariffs has led to an increasing number of job losses at home. Tariffs will cause layoffs, lives will be devastated, the hope and optimism that comes from meaningful work will be gone.

4 companies laying off workers due to Trump's tariffs

Here are four companies that laid off workers as a direct result of the tariffs, according to the report:

1. Mid-Continent Nail, America's largest nail-maker, based in Poplar Bluff, Mo., let go 60 workers. Sales tumbled 70 percent after President Donald Trump imposed a 25 percent tariff on Mexico and Canada steel. The company is concerned its 500-member workforce will be eliminated by Labor Day.

2. Cape Girardeau, Mo.-based SEMO Box, a packaging company, said it will lay off four temporary workers due to a slowdown from Mid-Continent Nail.

3. Norway's REC Silicon, a supplier of silicon materials used for solar panels, laid off about 100 employees at its Moses Lake, Wash.-based plant. China has imposed tariffs on polysilicon, which REC Silicon needs for production, according to USA Today.

4. Winnsboro, S.C.-based television maker Element Electronics notified the state it expects to shut down its plant and lay off 126 people, according to CNN Money. Element Electronics blamed the potential layoffs on Chinese tariffs imposed on parts used to make its televisions.

There are other industries, farming and even child care that are also slumping and or closing plus the real estate sales are going down as well...

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