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#26 2018-08-03 19:03:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Well China is striking out at the US again.. China unveils retaliatory tariffs on $60 billion in US goods

ranging from liquefied natural gas to some aircraft and warned of further measures, signaling that it won't back down in a protracted trade war with Washington.
China's finance ministry unveiled new sets of additional tariffs on 5,207 goods imported from the United States, ranging from 5 to 25 percent. Other U.S. goods targeted by China also included semiconductors, some helicopters, small-to-mid-sized aircraft, condoms, beef, steel products and coffee.

Trump you are not winning when it hurts the people you are sworn in to pertect.....

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#27 2018-08-07 18:32:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The economy must be using an accountent that has transposed the plus and minus symbols on the columns that say we are doing great but its anything but in parts of the US.

South Carolina company blames Trump's tariffs for possible plant closure, layoffs

Element Electronics, a consumer electronics company in South Carolina, says it will be closing its plant in Winnsboro due to tariffs imposed by President Trump. Element said "the layoff and closure is a result of the new tariffs that were recently and unexpectedly imposed on many goods imported from China, including the key television components used in our assembly operations in Winnsboro," in a letter to the state's Department of Employment and Workforce obtained by the local paper.

The company said in the letter that it hopes the closure will be temporary and added that it could reopen the plant in "three to six months, but we cannot predict this with any certainty at this time."

The company said it plans to start laying off workers in October, a move that will reportedly cost the county 126 jobs.

The news also comes after plans were canceled to build two nuclear reactors in the area, terminating 5,000 construction jobs.

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#28 2018-08-07 20:51:16

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I don't know why I try so hard to edijumicate you, must be something wrong with me, but:
http://www.atimes.com/article/us-bond-y … omic-year/
http://www.atimes.com/article/china-wil … th-the-us/
Quote:

The words might be vitriolic and laced with Communist Party dogma, but there is a growing feeling that China cannot win a trade war with the United States.

And trust me the "Atimes" people generally have a habit of prancing about conjuring the downfall of the degenerate "US".

I actually am neutral on trade wars and free trade, but I do believe I am open to an unbiased view of what is going on.

I'm just a jerk tonight I guess:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Pe … ORM=VRDGAR

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Pe … ORM=VRDGAR

http://zeihan.com/of-china-and-oil/

So, with a truce with Europe possible, and us being reasonable with some other actors, the focus can go onto one party we want some things from.

Honestly I hated Trump the first time I saw him on T.V.  Just a reaction to the "Your Fired" thing.

But he looks OK to me now, even amusing.


Done

Last edited by Void (2018-08-07 21:18:42)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#29 2018-08-07 21:33:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Well its the farmers with a 12 billion dollar bailout and now it looks like the electronics industry and steel use industries will suffer next..We have already seen the demise of department stores and many chains prior to the tariffs but I am sure they will follow as the buying power of the dollar continues to errode as prices rise on the store shelf and buying online will not change that since all the new state taxes will need to be paid.

The U.S. said it will begin imposing 25 percent duties on an additional $16 billion in Chinese imports in two weeks, escalating a trade war between the world’s two biggest economies.

It will be the second time the U.S. slaps duties on Chinese goods in about the past month, despite complaints by American companies that such moves will raise business costs and eventually consumer prices.

China hits back after U.S. imposes tariffs on $34B in ...
www.foxnews.com/world/2018/07/06/us-china-trade-war-official...

So expect another retailation....

.

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#30 2018-08-07 21:40:36

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Well, I believe the Chinese consider living in interesting times a curse.

So, I guess we have that....

I think we are going to be fine in the end.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#31 2018-08-09 18:43:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

No doubt once the course is correct that America can rebound but how long after that damage will it take?

Crocs to close remaining manufacturing facilities; executive to resign

Crocs said it closed 28 retail sales locations in the latest quarter, which leaves the company with less than 400 locations globally. Crocs (CROX), based out of Niwot, Colorado, that a facility in Mexico will shutter and there are plans to close one in Italy. It's unclear what the future of production will be.

Granted not this time for American jobs but seems to be related to tariffs.

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#32 2018-08-10 07:30:08

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,995

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

President Trump is correcting our course.  America is not bound for the servitude associated with socialism... for now.  Making everyone poor by taxing them to death and then squandering our tax money on stupid stuff will benefit no one.  Government needs to learn to operate within fiscal constraints, just like the rest of us.

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#33 2018-08-11 10:28:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Not a course correction for the good. Ex. Today I brought my normal recycling of rubbish/trash to the Dump for removal as most towns and cities do not have a paid pick up service and are now in a pay per bag for disposal. The recycling was taking just about all products but last year it removed styrofoam from the single stream and earlier this year it wanted to remove shiny cardboard and other items. Now after the tariffs with china they are now restricting the plastics types to only 1,2 & 5 for the recycling and are not wanting all food contaminate products to be put into the paid waste stream. This is making americans poorer as costs continue to rise.

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#34 2018-08-12 14:14:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

This is not how a president should behave when the trouble he has caused with these tariffs and what a company must do in order to survive.

Trump backs boycott of Harley Davidson in steel tariff dispute

Keeping cost to the customer as low as it can be keeps sales being generated, while rising up of the price will reduce the quantity of sales when not changing the bottom line of profits to operate. Being forced into buying the raw materials at a higher cost due to tariffs to make a product will cause a rise in price to the customer and that is what the tariffs are doing.

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#35 2018-08-19 22:10:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

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#36 2018-08-20 10:15:49

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

NAFTA is probably useful to the USA overall.  But it is not wrong to review it's structure.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#37 2018-08-26 08:48:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

More industries that are being impacted by the tariffs... How a Trump tariff is strangling American newspapers

Newspapers, magazines and print advertisers have seen the cost of their most basic commodity rise at double-digit rates since the Commerce Department began imposing the tariffs in March on Canadian imports, by far the publishing industry’s dominant paper source.
For Cullen, the newsprint crisis is just one battle in an ongoing war. “The real issue is the decline of rural communities and how that is sapping the small-newspaper industry,” he said. “What is harder to live with is knowing that the hardware store that closed used to run a quarter-page ad with you once a week and that the car dealers seem infatuated with Facebook,” he said. “We feel blessed to break even.”

Snowball rolling effect....

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#38 2018-08-26 16:28:21

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,995

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

Liberals are "concerned" about "saving the planet", except when it comes to spreading their propaganda.  If a few more trees live because of the tariffs and a little less mindless drivel is spewed forth by the "deep thinkers" (like learning about the favorite lawn ornaments of the real housewives of Lala-Land) liberal regressive media, that'd be absolutely terrible for both America and the planet.  I'm starting to understand just how much spreading the propaganda is important to the party.  Apparently, it's even more important than the environment.  Good to know.

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#39 2018-08-26 16:48:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Actually its about more job losses as the industry continues to decline due to costs of paper. So that paper pulp will make for a rising cost to tiolet paper and more not to meantion the cost to schools will rise as we are not electronic in all aspects of education. Also wood products in general will rise which means housing builds will slow...these are the negatives of a rising tariff....

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#40 2018-08-26 17:47:02

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,995

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

I thought people claiming to be environmentalists wanted to reduce the consumption of paper to "save the trees", "save the bees", and "save the planet".  My mistake.

Is there some reason why we keep consuming wood to make houses?  Has concrete recently become less durable than wood?

Regarding the use of modern technology in education, maybe it's past time for us to "get with the times"?

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#41 2018-08-26 18:44:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Basic stamped concrete costs between $8 and $12 per square foot, but more involved projects can be as high as $18 per square foot. The cost of stamped concrete varies widely, depending on the prices for materials and labor in your local market and the complexity of the job. Blocks usually used in construction versus walls are laid, the voids can be filled with a cement-based mortar or poured concrete that contains small pea gravel. The concrete used to fill the block voids must have small gravel so it can flow readily into all the narrow voids. But even if we do go the floor or slab for single floor plus walls its the roof that still is not a formed concrete part of the structure for building homes.
Of course in earth quake zones doing a concrete building might not be the best choice as it now needs addition support systems to keep it from breaking.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/r … hly-bills/

https://www.countymaterials.com/en/news … investment

https://www.concretenetwork.com/concret … /cost.html

So up front costs for the home is the problem type of construction for local zone can and will change the costs. In areas already struggling for the money to purchase going with the higher prices materials will not work....

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#42 2018-08-26 21:05:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The school electronics would need to remain viable for probably 5 or 6 years before needing whole sale change outs again and we know that that is not just hardware but servers, software, computers and tablets and lots of other stuff with none of it being worth much even after a year let alone 2 years.

Something else that we forget about under what is termed liberalism by kbd512...
How these scrap yards found themselves on front lines of the US-China trade war

Sure they recycle but its for the sale of that material for the best dollar amount and not much to do with being eco. China is the largest consumer of scrap commodities as its cheaper to reuse rather than mine it. Of course Michigan would be a major exporter, but there are other locations that do a thriving business generating multimillions of dollars when it comes to recycling metals.

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#43 2018-08-28 08:48:45

kbd512
Moderator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 2,995

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

SpaceNut,

Electronics don't need to be changed every 2 years.  That's just absurd.  I'm responding to you on a computer from 2011 or 2012.  When some of the original parts failed, I replaced them for far less cost than a brand new computer.  It took about an hour.  The new computers don't do much, from an education standpoint, that older models won't do.  We're talking about teaching kids mathematics, language, writing, and basic science principles.  Shiny new things are not required to do that.  I'd settle for tools that teach kids how to write and speak articulately.  The tablets made four years ago are entirely sufficient for those tasks.

As far as metal recycling is concerned, is there some reason we can't use the metals we already have to create new engines like the ones depicted in that scrap heap?  Is there some overriding reason why Americans can't make new vehicles / engines / construction materials using recycled scrap?  Explain the sensibility of shipping something as heavy as scrap metals from America to China so they can make something and then turn around and sell it back to America.

Want to know why there aren't more manufacturing jobs here in America?  We're sending materials overseas to make things of value instead of making things of value for ourselves.  There's no lack of ability or labor, just an unwillingness to give up that last dollar in profit and a government that gives tax breaks to companies that ship American jobs overseas to save a buck or two.

For people who claim to be so concerned about our environment, does it make any sense to burn the gas to ship scrap metals back to China and then burn more gas shipping it back to America?

Prioritize.  Decide what's most important.  Is the cost of buying goods from your fellow Americans more important than the environment?

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#44 2018-08-28 21:20:07

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

From what I read, Mexico has both lower cost and better skilled labor than China.  So, indeed, why don't we help Mexico to take up the jobs to are not in more local places?  Why burn the fuel to shuffle materials around?

Also, it is supposed to have a good population demographic at this time.  So, potentially a very useful trading partner.

There are more critical articles than this one to be sure, and it is not a done deal by any means.  Apparently the executive will try to have a trade deal with Mexico, and probably Canada.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … d53f7d7526


I won't do any quotes, as I know you can read.  Some hints I have seen are that a certain percentage of work has to go to people who make $16.00/hour or more, both in the USA and Mexico.

So, that would help so called rust belt states.

Last edited by Void (2018-08-28 21:22:54)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#45 2018-09-03 14:36:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

The issue for Tariffs are they do not always get the desired effect http://www.preservearticles.com/2011092 … untry.html and that the reality may be casued by another reason.

The economic effects of tariffs used as a trade barrier to protect domestic industries.
clip_image002_thumb588.jpg

One early on impacted industry was Solar Energy Industry Plans Ways to Mitigate Tariff Effects when the administration decided to impose 30 percent tariffs on imported crystalline silicon photovoltaic cells and panels in order to protect domestic manufacturers.

Some N.H. Solar Installers Say Trump's New Tariff Is Bad For Business

The main customers are middle-class homeowners looking to offset their energy bills with solar net metering with a typical rooftop array costs around $25,000.

How do proposed U.S. tariffs on Canada, EU impact NH, New England? Fred Kocher sits down to discuss tariffs and the impact they can have on New Hampshire.

An industry of the state of NH is lumber and N.H. businesses discuss impact of Trump tariffs on Canadian lumber

Very little raw timber comes into the state from Canada, Stock said, but a large percentage of New Hampshire’s logs – 55.3 million of the 115 million board feet of logs the state produced in 2014 – go up to Canada to be processed into lumber. Stock said for many loggers, especially those in the far northern reaches of the state, Canada is the closest market for raw timber processing.

Once Canadian sawmills buy the New Hampshire logs, they can turn them into lumber at a far lower cost than at American sawmills because of government subsidies, Stock said. Those cheaper boards, now considered Canadian lumber, are then sold in the American market.
Those trees are cheaper to log than U.S. forests, the majority of which are privately owned, according to Rioux, mainly because of the exchange rate.

Trade war threatens to ruin Christmas for retailers

“Americans are caught in the crosshairs of the Administration’s three-front trade war, and they will be the ones paying the price,” Quach said in an emailed statement Friday. “The recent onslaught of tariffs will jeopardize manufacturing and agriculture jobs in the U.S., while driving up prices on household items.”

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#46 2018-09-04 03:48:38

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,137
Website

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Ah. So "free trade" means Americans losing jobs because Canada is unfairly subsidising their businesses. No wonder New Hampshire almost went to Trump.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#47 2018-09-15 19:43:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

More upping the stakes as Trump to Announce New Tariffs on Chinese Imports

The Trump administration plans to announce within days new tariffs on as much as $200 billion in Chinese goods, further pressuring Beijing before high-level, U.S.-China talks set for later this month, say people familiar with the matter.

We are already seeing an effect in stores as the shelfs are getting empty of products that are made over seas.

There is this as well Trump Says Tariffs Mean Ford Can Make New Model at Home. Ford Says It Won’t.

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#48 2018-09-15 22:36:27

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I think for me to get a good nights sleep, I am going to have to mess with you Spacenut.  You messed with me in the Science section.

Here we go:
http://www.atimes.com/article/the-gap-b … reaucracy/
Quote:

Growing nationalism could give Trump an edge over EU
The way things are moving, very soon United States President Donald Trump will have an upper hand in his negotiations with Merkel, Macron and Juncker

Quote:

It underscores the stark distinction best exemplified between the constitution of the United States which begins “We the People,” and the constitution of the European Union which begins by deferring to “His Majesty the King of the Belgians” (seriously).

Here is my problem(s)

I consider the diaspora of humans in North America to some extent and in some places to be the most non-deplorable peoples on the planet.  The reason is that they have broken from the idiotic globalist agenda.  They did it a long time ago.

Now we give old world zombies and very old world zombies the ability to function, and what do they do except to try to eat the functional parts of the human race.

Why should we help to pave the road to hell for ourselves?

Rather should we not demand our freedom?

This is not the first time that the old world tried to enslave us.  It happens over and over again.

Curious matter Spacenut, are you a globalist, or one of us?  Really you should say truth on this.

Footnote for those who have Constitutional monarchy.  We can really use you and you could really use us.  We each have a method.  The two together may prevail to bring the human race to the potential of the better.  I would not waste my energy to bring you down, I hope you would feel the same.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2018-09-15 22:48:52)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#49 2018-09-16 18:11:27

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,116

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

I fully support Trump on this. One of the worst geopolitical mistakes of the last 50 years was the Nixon-Kissinger China policy...allowing China into the free trade/capitalist system at no cost and much gain (a permanent UN Security Council seat no less). If it was a gamble, it was a gamble that failed. China is now hugely powerful but completely unreformed, a belligerent regional/super power that now threatens to bury the USA.  Since Nixon allowed China entry into the free world system it has just cheated, cheated and cheated. It steals, it commits genocide, it lies and it refuses to abide by treaty obligations.  You might criticise Trump for cosying up to Putin but you can't criticise him for standing up to China.

SpaceNut wrote:

More upping the stakes as Trump to Announce New Tariffs on Chinese Imports

The Trump administration plans to announce within days new tariffs on as much as $200 billion in Chinese goods, further pressuring Beijing before high-level, U.S.-China talks set for later this month, say people familiar with the matter.

We are already seeing an effect in stores as the shelfs are getting empty of products that are made over seas.

There is this as well Trump Says Tariffs Mean Ford Can Make New Model at Home. Ford Says It Won’t.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#50 2018-09-16 21:36:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,557

Re: Isolationist, Buy American, Trumps Tariff war

Why Trump Fans Keep Using The Slur 'Globalist' as it is popping up around Trump fan sites all over the internet. Many of the people using the word “globalist” seem to be under the misimpression that opposing “globalism” involves reviving American authority, rejecting international institutions that remove American sovereignty.

Free trade is merely the absence of governmental restrictions on free exchange of goods and services.

Globalism would require international rules to govern how we do business here at home. No true free trader supports that. And Trump’s anti-globalist alternative, tariffs, is far more controlling than any international free trade agreement.

Trump would jack up indirect taxation on American consumers to massive levels and then call it freedom from “globalism.” It’s actually just tyranny by way of the American government.

Now onto China... I do not like it when I can go get a product on the store shelf and even if I buy the same components I could not make it for 10 times that purchased price from the same vendors of the parts to say nothing about building it. Some of this is inflated pricing to keep these parts out of other means to build why other parts of that is dumping of product and not paying a fair market labor cost to the employee, subsidizing business to be able to achieve these goals....

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