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#101 2018-10-14 20:17:58

Belter
Member
Registered: 2018-09-13
Posts: 184

Re: South of the Border Politics

I didn't say my knowledge carries more weight.  It is simply more accurate.    If all 9 Justices agreed, my opinion becomes meaningless.  But they almost have never all agreed.  So my opinion is precisely the same as any Supreme Court Justices, Founders, Framers and other people with more "weight".  Thomas Jefferson agrees with me.  James Madison agrees with me.  Even the Republican Party in 1864 agrees with me.

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#102 2018-10-15 20:36:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

So when are you both coming up with a plan B.

As border walls are not going to work to stop the illegal and or legal imigrations of anyone south of them as proven countless times by the many tunnels, there have been doors cut into the walls going unseen, fencing broken down and even the test samples were defeated....
No matter how much paper we create the way it is will not change for those trying to come here.

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#103 2018-10-16 02:00:56

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,137

Re: South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut,

I can think of a really good argument for why we need more immigrants.  At present, we don't have nearly enough workers to do all the work that needs to be done.  We're at near full-employment and now growth is stagnating because we need a lot more people to grow.  That wasn't the case when President Trump took office, but it sure as hell is now.  I also detest the totalitarian regimes south of our border and stealing their people is a great way to cause them to collapse so that there is at least the potential, however unlikely, that we can force positive regime changes without military action.  Most of them are high quality workers who are more industrious than most others.  Many of them are lacking in the basic education department, but we can easily rectify that.

If you want to annex some of those countries south of our border and allow their people to travel here freely, either as American citizens or just citizens of American protectorates, I'm completely onboard with that.  I've always wanted to "join forces", such as it were, but too many people here, there, and everywhere are more worried about their sovereignty than they are about presenting a united front to all potential aggressors.  This is North America and we're all North Americans first.  Short of that, our borders need to be respected.

I'd give everyone full citizenship and full rights as citizens.  There shall be no second class citizens.  Same standard of living as Americans.  No games.  No BS.  Everybody gets a seat at the big boy table.  Just the most powerful empire on the planet, and one that's impenetrably protected from invasion at that.  We wouldn't need a wall if we did that, but nobody has the balls to do it.  As it stands, we're still playing this infantile game with Mexico and the Central American countries.

I'd also like to annex Venezuela to get their oil, crush their military dictatorship, feed their people, and restore order.  The pictures of that once prosperous country make me want to vomit.  Longer term, I'd also like to persuade as many South American countries join us as we possibly can.

I care far more about our empire than I do about the skin color of our citizens.  I want to make everyone an offer they can't refuse.

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#104 2018-10-17 17:21:48

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

I have broken out the topic The Constitution, not what you think it says.... as its a side topic for this one. So carry on there.

Trump threatens to pull aid from Honduras if caravan isn't stopped

About 1,600 migrants are heading to the US to seek asylum. The group started Friday with an initial 160 Hondurans, but hundreds more have joined. Donald Trump has threatened to cut off millions of dollars of aid to Honduras if it fails to stop a group of migrants fleeing violence. President Donald Trump has threatened to cut off U.S. foreign aid to Honduras if that country does not stop a caravan of migrants moving northward toward the U.S. border. The U.S. sends more than $100 million in foreign aid to Honduras each year.

Breaking out another topic in Why do we give money to other countries?

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#105 2018-10-20 09:18:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

There seems to be no stopping this group as the Caravan migrants break Guatemala border fence, rush Mexico

Migrants in U.S.-bound caravan break through fence at Guatemala-Mexico border

“One way or another, we will pass!” the migrants chanted as they approached the gates in the Guatemalan town of Tecun Uman.

camera man in the crowd

la-1539988877-fgvblywrmz-snap-image

willing to cheat death for a chance to get away from the gangs...

la-1539991997-rfg9mekfzt-snap-image

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#106 2018-10-21 11:02:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

Slowed but now picking up with even greater numbers than before Migrant caravan swells to 5,000, resumes advance toward US walking toward the Mexican town of Tapachula, 10 abreast in a line stretching approximately a mile (1.5 kilometers).

At dawn there were still an estimated 1,500 migrants on the Guatemalan side hoping to enter legally. After an emergency meeting in Guatemala, presidents Hernandez of Honduras and Jimmy Morales of Guatemala said an estimated 5,400 migrants had entered Guatemala since the caravan was announced a week ago, and about 2,000 Hondurans have returned voluntarily.

Article indicates most are looking to work....

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#107 2018-10-21 11:31:54

Belter
Member
Registered: 2018-09-13
Posts: 184

Re: South of the Border Politics

If they were geese, no one would care.   Humans don't have rights, only animals, under government.

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#108 2018-10-21 17:38:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trump on migrant caravan: 'Onslaught of illegal aliens' represents 'disgrace' to the Dems

Rose colored glasses much... they are doing this to spite you with regards to a border wall, zero tolerance and so much more that keeps coming out of Trumps mouth....

"People have to apply for asylum in Mexico first, and if they fail to do that, the U.S. will turn them away," Trump tweeted. "The courts are asking the U.S. to do things that are not doable!"

Mexico is currently processing the caravan in small groups, and said some 640 asylum claims have been processed. The asylum process can take from 45 to 90 days. Those who are approved will be eligible for relocation in a third country, potentially Mexico or the United States, but there are no guarantees.

During the lengthy asylum process, applicants are supposed to remain near an immigration station and sign in each week. Once granted, they can move freely in Mexico.

passing the test to be granted assylum for mexico means nothing for the same claim in the USA....

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#109 2018-10-21 19:44:00

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,137

Re: South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut,

I'd love to send the hoards of invaders to your neighborhood instead of mine.  You'd get tired of them within a week or so.

The Democrats still haven't figured out that the people they're spiting are the same people who elected President Trump.  Not much of a strategy.

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#110 2018-10-21 20:11:43

Belter
Member
Registered: 2018-09-13
Posts: 184

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trump, the greatest "expert" on the Constitution since Barack "ACA" Obama.

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#111 2018-10-22 19:42:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

First those that cross illegally should not just get deport to across that border from where they just walked from as they will just walk back. They should be considered refugees and brought elsewhere so that they can not come back by walking...

Convicted of real crimes send them to other places that are way more tough for them to stay alive....Sure that may be hard but so what...its called scared straight...

Also they should not be allow to concentrate there population as they will not assimulate the nation that they have come to as there is no need for them to do so as we are not forcing them to do so. Spread them out across the nation....

The caravan inspite of the aid disappearing from the nations that they left are still coming and the numbers are growing again....

They are doing this to spite Trump....not americans.....

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#112 2018-10-26 19:26:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trump wants the military to go to the border and it appears the go ahead has been given by Jim Mattis approves US troops for border with Mexico which is just a repeat from when In April, frustrated by lack of progress on the wall, Trump ordered the National Guard to help secure the border.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is sending 800 troops to the U.S.-Mexican border to give support to border agents after receiving a request Wednesday from the Department of Homeland Security...Being sent, bolstering President Donald Trump's battle against migrants trekking toward the United States. They will be stopped! is Trumps battle cry....

The migrants appeared undeterred on Thursday night as several thousand of them bedded down more than 1,000 miles (1,610 km) from the U.S. border, in the town of Pijijiapan in Mexico's southern Chiapas state, after hiking hours from their last stop.

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#113 2018-10-27 05:47:08

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,262

Re: South of the Border Politics

Who can remember the words on the Statue of Liberty?

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#114 2018-10-27 07:05:48

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,412
Website

Re: South of the Border Politics

Ah yes, the Zeroth amendment.


To secure a planet it is not necessary to colonise it in its entirety, only to secure the most valuable locations. The Lunar poles and Subterran point. Mercury's poles. The equatorial region of Ceres. Hold these, prevent access to their volatiles and anchor points for beanstalks, and independent colonies cease to be viable.

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#115 2018-10-27 11:17:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

The group heading north has many which have said no to a mexico stay... 'We're heading north!' Migrants nix offer to stay in Mexico

Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto has announced what he called the "You are at home" plan, offering shelter, medical attention, schooling and jobs to Central Americans in Chiapas and Oaxaca states if migrants apply, calling it a first step toward permanent refugee status. Authorities said more than 1,700 had already applied for refugee status.

Majority of the group is not looking for a free lunch as Trump indicates with his welfare statements....

102 slides of the people heading north...

BBOYmF1.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

The caravan covered more than 60 miles Friday and was roughly 990 miles from McCallen, Texas, and over 2,300 miles from San Diego.

The wall is a replacement section but story line is not indicating the truth.
First section of Donald Trump's wall at Mexico border unveiled

BBOXS33.img?h=641&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1128&y=1885

"We're not letting them in, they ought to go back now because we're not."

meaning stopping legal entrance into the US which will leave illegal as the only option for assylum seekers....

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#116 2018-10-29 18:36:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

The grouping of those heading north whiles its not quite as large they are still coming.

Thousands of caravan migrants stopped at Mexico border with Guatemala clash with police. Footage showing migrants trying to climb over the border fence and clashing with Mexican riot police has emerged. A group broke through a gate at the Mexico-Guatemala border and clashed with police, who used rubber bullets but killed one Honduran man.

A new group of migrants bound for the United States set off from El Salvador and crossed into Guatemala on Sunday, following thousands of other Central Americans fleeing poverty and violence.

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#117 2018-10-30 00:49:12

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,137

Re: South of the Border Politics

SpaceNut,

The narrative coming from our media is about poor people escaping persecution in their home countries.  Asylum is granted on the basis of credible persecution or threat of violence against asylum seekers.  Since these people are already out of their own country, they're also free of the persecution experienced in their home country.  Given that fact, why are they not seeking asylum in Mexico, especially after the President of Mexico offered asylum to them?

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#118 2018-10-30 05:53:06

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,262

Re: South of the Border Politics

International law says that they should seek asylum in the first safe country that they arrive in. Is Mexico safe?

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#119 2018-11-03 17:47:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

Judge rejects Trump administration's motion to dismiss claims by immigrant children by attorneys who say the kids have unconstitutionally been denied the ability to challenge their detention or obtain counsel.

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#120 2018-11-03 19:21:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

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#121 2018-11-03 20:23:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

We have heard about the cost of the wall being $25 billion but its way to much money.... to build roughly six miles its going to cost
$145M Texas border wall project awarded, Customs and Border Protection says

“a reinforced concrete levee wall to the height of the existing levee, 18 feet tall steel bollards installed on top of the concrete wall, and vegetation removal along a 150 foot enforcement zone throughout the approximately six miles of levee wall system,”

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#122 2018-11-04 18:46:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

I have no problem with the US troops laying barbed wire along Texas side of border. The U.S. troops are laying down barbed-wire fence along the Texas side of the Rio Grande River as approximately 7,000 immigrants travel northward which are in multiple groups and from just as many nations. There are 15,000 Troops At US-Mexico Border Could Cost $200M By End Of Year.

69a76dc2887407f43f6e65a45c76a20c

Obama stumps for senator who supports Trump’s wall

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#123 2018-11-05 20:30:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

BBPhh3I.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f&x=1936&y=763

Honduran city of San Pedro Sula, considered one of the most violent places in the world. Participants say they are fleeing violence and lack of opportunities in Honduras.

Mexico should be grant assylum for those there but they seem to not be doing as many as is needed.

Some images of Trumps invasion....First in migrant caravan reach Mexico City, still hundreds of miles from US border

“Hopefully the president will soften his heart and open the door of his country,” said Lopez. “We are not bad people. We suffered a lot in our countries and all we want is a better future. People in the United States should not be afraid of us. We just want to work. … We are not criminals.”

BBPnNkF.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

There are many that should be but then again not all can come in in such great numbers. Mexico does need to do more and yet we should also be looking to do whats need to make these people stay in there own nations....

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#124 2018-11-05 21:06:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

The military role will not be until they are beyond the barbed wire if they go with an ICE  /border personel...

Joint Chiefs chair: Troops at border will not 'come in contact with immigrants'

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#125 2018-11-10 14:53:18

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,442

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trump Claims New Power to Bar Asylum for Immigrants Who Arrive Illegally

ACLU sues Trump administration to halt asylum restrictions

Trump Signs Executive Order Changing How Asylum Works

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/

What Trump really said in his executive order:
Presidential Proclamation Addressing Mass Migration Through the Southern Border of the United States

The great number of aliens who cross unlawfully into the United States through the southern border consumes tremendous resources as the Government seeks to surveil, apprehend, screen, process, and detain them.

Aliens who enter the United States unlawfully or without proper documentation and are subject to expedited removal may avoid being promptly removed by demonstrating, during an initial screening process, a credible fear of persecution or torture.

Ok give you that it cost money to vet these people upon being found or captured...

The immigration adjudication process often takes years to complete because of the growing volume of claims and because of the need to expedite proceedings for detained aliens.  During that time, many released aliens fail to appear for hearings, do not comply with subsequent orders of removal, or are difficult to locate and remove.

So keep them in the border corridor instead of sending them elsewhere creating a new place for them to reside safely while they work to become educated in english and take steps to legal stay along the road to citizenship. If they do not invest in making change send them home.

I am similarly acting to suspend, for a limited period, the entry of certain aliens in order to address the problem of large numbers of aliens traveling through Mexico to enter our country unlawfully or without proper documentation.  I am tailoring the suspension to channel these aliens to ports of entry, so that, if they enter the United States, they do so in an orderly and controlled manner instead of unlawfully.

So what is the legal papers for entry if they have no passport...

here are the limits:

That suspension and limitation shall expire 90 days after the date of this proclamation
The suspension and limitation on entry pursuant to section 1 of this proclamation shall apply only to aliens who enter the United States after the date of this proclamation.

Meant to reduce illegal entry but as stated in dislaimer guarentees nothing.

dislaimer:

This proclamation is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.


.

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