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#51 2018-07-24 11:54:13

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,982
Website

Re: South of the Border Politics

Kbd512:

The point I tried to make was that US citizens who appear Mexican have been detained on our side of the border,  and then deported wrongfully to Mexico.  They were presumed to be illegal aliens because they had no ID on them,  and the authorities chose (chose,  mind you!!) not to check whether they really were US citizens. 

These individuals WERE NOT crossing the border!  They are not required to carry citizenship ID when not crossing the border,  none of us are.  This all happened on our side.  It is nothing but racial profiling combined with bureaucratic laziness not to check the assumptions being made.  THAT is one of the miscarriages of justice that I object to,  and in no uncertain terms. 

This is something that has gotten very much more probable under the Trump/Sessions "discourage all immigrants" policy.  My own wife has become aware that she could be such a target.  She is half-Japanese and a naturalized citizen,  having been born in Japan. 

Some of the talking heads were spouting nonsense about doing away with naturalized citizenship,  about the time the immigrant crisis began.  THAT is something I will NOT tolerate!  Period.  It is just wrong.  The talking heads may have been outgassing BS,  but what I see going on,  on multiple fronts,  portends evil to come,  out of this particular administration.

Before you go off the deep end about open borders again,  know that I am quite in favor of properly policed borders.  I'm quite in favor of the government knowing who is here after crossing in,  what they do here,  and how long they have been here.  It only makes sense. 

But I am also quite in favor of finally making the guest worker visa quotas match the economic ground truth,  for once,  after 7 decades of policy best described as utter BS (because it literally and needlessly created an illegal alien population of 10-12 million,  out of otherwise simple desperate people from down there,  whose means of livelihood was up here). 

I am also in favor of granting refugees the right to request asylum,  as has long been law and policy.  There is an implied right to step across the border to make that request.  It is quite properly restricted to a designated crossing.  They have the right to ask.  The outcome is not guaranteed.  But I think it immoral to create classes of violence that they flee which we will or will not accept,  as has become policy in recent years (predating Trump I think,  but I'm not sure about that).  Death is just death,  no matter who does the killing.

Trump/Sessions' hardline policy created the current border crisis by denying that implied right.  Those refugees did indeed cross at a designated crossing.  They literally had the right to walk across that bridge to request asylum of an American official,  something seen by everyone on the TV news.  (Once again,  bridge !!!,  not a river or desert far from the designated crossings!) 

They were instead treated as illegal crossers,  and their children then separated,  using the "illegality" of their presence here as the excuse,  otherwise all as per law.  That is nothing but abuse of the law in order to abuse desperate people,  so that others like them would choose instead not to come.  Sessions said so,  and I heard him say it.

This government's incompetence has been revealed by how far short of the court order they have fallen in reuniting those children.  And in how they keep trying to misuse the law in order to dodge the consequences of not meeting that court order.  THAT is NOT a government to be proud of,  and I am NOT proud of it.  And I am not proud of it for damned good reasons,  too!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-07-24 12:05:42)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#52 2018-07-24 19:04:50

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

The roughly 2000 plus to reunite date is in just a few days and much like the first round there will be some which have already been deported, some claimed to be unfit to get there children back, some will be non relatives that they came over with, and some will get there children back with the weight of deportation still possibly happening even for assylum seekers.

New York Gov. Cuomo pardons illegal immigrants facing deportation for crimes in order to help them avoid deportation.

“While President Trump engages in policies that rip children out of the arms of their mothers and tries to ramp up the deportation of New Yorkers to advance his political agenda of hate and division, we will protect our immigrant communities,” Cuomo continued. “With the Statue of Liberty in our harbor, New York will always stand against the hate coming out of Washington and instead serve as a beacon of hope and opportunity for all.”

The administration is still working on reuniting those who have been separated; nearly 1,200 were reunited by this week.

Those pardoned were ones that should have been sent packing or imprisoned for the crimes that are indicated.

463 parents may have been deported without kids

The Trump administration, in federal court papers filed Monday, said the cases of 463 parents are "under review." The filing also said 879 parents had been reunited with their children and another 538 have been cleared for reunification.

There are 917 parents considered not eligible or "not yet known to be eligible" – the 463 plus 454 others – to be reunited with their kids, the filing says. Some of those parents are no longer in the country, others have criminal records, communicable diseases or other issues rendering them ineligible.

"The government’s word alone on this determination is not sufficient," the ACLU said in a statement. "We’ve asked the court to order the government to provide details about the nature of the charge, conviction, or warrant for each parent whom the government excluded, so that we can verify that not reunifying the child is truly in their best interest."

Background checks?

So what are these children that are not going back to parents and are still in a detension center, is this just a wait until legal age to deport them to a nation that they only walked through?

Family detention is not the answer to family separation. It's a failure and a disgrace. Asylum seekers are fleeing chilling violence and threats. They deserve help, not inhumane, sometimes terrifying treatment at family detention centers. There are viable alternatives to detention that will uphold due process, lessen trauma, and negate the need to contract with private prison companies.

Family detention isn’t “summer camp.” It isn’t a “processing center.” It is a place where mothers must “choose” to work for $3 a day in the blistering South Texas heat so they can afford to buy bottled water for themselves and their children.

So how many days would you work for at just $3 even if you do add up the housing which is forced on you and the meals?

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#53 2018-07-24 19:17:35

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,486

Re: South of the Border Politics

GW,

If a court of law isn't checking for identification, then that's a failure of the judiciary, rather than law enforcement.  If law enforcement is trucking American citizens over the border without taking them to court, that's a pretty good case for civil rights infringement and kidnapping.

Do you believe that immigration laws still apply to illegal aliens within our country?

If so, then how do you propose to enforce those laws if law enforcement isn't permitted to detain and question people they suspect are residing in this country illegally?

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#54 2018-07-24 19:27:37

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Surveillance, information gathering on subject in question, background gathering, then detention and processing out of the country based on truth and not on opinion of color, language ect....

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#55 2018-07-25 08:41:01

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,982
Website

Re: South of the Border Politics

Kbd512:

I didn't say the courts did this.  It's literally agents in the field (and their supervisors) finding someone without papers,  and summarily deciding to put them on the deportation bus.  THAT is what is really happening much of the time.  These folks work for various agencies,  but most of the stories about these miscarriages hitting the news of late show ICE agents. It really is civil rights infringement and kidnapping.  We have to deal with this somehow,  but what we are doing is not the right way.

There is a small number of American citizens of Mexican heritage swept up in this and wrongfully deported,  which is what I was describing above. My point:  not all brown-skinned folks not carrying immigration papers are illegal aliens. 

As for "illegal aliens",  please distinguish between illegal guest workers,  and the group of illegal smugglers,  human traffickers,  and druggies.  The first is some 10-12 million people,  the second is only several thousand.  They come here for different reasons,  and present entirely different problems for us. What to do with them,  if we do the right thing,  is entirely different.

If we were to make the guest worker quotas commensurate with the labor market segment that they serve,  10-12 million "illegals" disappear entirely,  all at once.  The people are still here,  just the status changes.  These are 1-year guest worker visas.  Renewing them is how you track them.  These people would much rather come here legally.  The stats show there are fewer crime-committers among them than among Americans at large.  There is very little threat to address here.  Problem solved.

Note that I did NOT say make them citizens.  I said to make them legal alien guest workers.  They should be allowed to apply for citizenship if they so wish.  Note also that the DACA problem goes away almost entirely within about a generation if we do this.  Most of those children are the children of illegal guest workers.  There are a few that are children of refugees seeking asylum.  Those are few indeed compared to guest worker children. 

Note finally that everything I have said and proposed for "right way to do it" solutions is consistent with enforcing our immigration laws!  Nothing I have said is consistent with "open borders" the way you put it.  I'm just proposing ways to do it right,  instead of the bungled and often-illegal or immoral idiocy we do now.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-07-25 08:42:20)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#56 2018-08-03 19:37:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Federal judge orders Trump administration to restore DACA

Judge John Bates said in a 25-page decision that the Trump administration had failed to justify the decision to end the Obama-era program known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA. The Justice Department said in April that Bates' ruling "doesn't change" its position on DACA. Bates had given the federal govenrment 90 days to offer a better legal justification for ending the program.

DACA was signed in 2012 by former President Obama to defer deportation for more than 700,000 undocumented immigrants, known as Dreamers, who were brought to the U.S. as children. Mr. Trump had given mixed signals about the program, saying at one point that "we love the Dreamers."

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#57 2018-08-03 19:51:49

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Zero Tolerance but not in both direction as HIV-positive shelter worker sexually abused 8 immigrant boys, authorities say

Court documents show Levian Pacheco faces several charges stemming from incidents that allegedly took place between August 2016 and July 2017 at a Southwest Key facility in Mesa

This just goes to show that the system was already broken.

The victims in the case against Pacheco were all unaccompanied minors and it's not clear if they had been separated from their parents or traveled to the U.S. alone, although the government was not widely separating families at the time of the incidents.

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#58 2018-08-07 18:48:53

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

The Trump administration will soon introduce a new proposal making it more difficult for legal immigrants to obtain citizenship or permanent residency if they or members of their household ever used public welfare programs,  if they’ve ever used Obamacare or other programs.

Now the Trump administration wants to limit citizenship for legal immigrants

Many are like Louis Charles, a Haitian green-card holder seeking citizenship who, despite working up to 80 hours a week as a nursing assistant, has had to use public programs to support his disabled adult daughter.

Using some public benefits like Social Security Insurance has already hindered immigrants from obtaining legal status in the past, but the programs included in the recent draft plan could mean that immigrant households earning as much as 250 percent of the poverty level could be rejected.

Wait a minute 80 hours....thats got to be below minimum wage.....

more personal stories of denials for lots of differing reasons...

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#59 2018-08-08 02:31:53

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,286
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Re: South of the Border Politics

It sounds like America is going the way of Canada... yikes


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#60 2018-08-08 19:18:30

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trying to limit the power of what use to be a minority via executive orders stripping away the amnesty of other presidents, deporting those that served our nation and now trying to put even more hurdles on those that came here legally that fell on hard times possibly...not canada at all...
Just how many american would fit into that needing assistance number?

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#61 2018-08-09 03:26:35

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,286
Website

Re: South of the Border Politics

I'm fairly certain Canada doesn't let people immigrate if they're going to be a burden on their health system. I definitely recall reading a news article about a family being unable to receive visas because one of the children had severe autism, and the Canadians don't want to be on the hook for their care. It was something like that.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#62 2018-08-09 19:02:08

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Seems there has been an about face with Army temporarily suspends discharges of immigrant recruits seeking path to citizenship dated July 20 spells out orders to high-ranking Army officials to stop processing discharges of men and women who enlisted in the special immigrant program, effective immediately. The Pentagon said there had been no specific policy change with background checks still ongoing but these were some of the reasons that others had been discharged for security risks because they have relatives abroad or because the Defense Department had not completed background checks on them.

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#63 2018-08-11 11:03:23

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

President Trump marked the anniversary of a deadly white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia by calling for unity and condemning “all types of racism and acts of violence.”  “The riots in Charlottesville a year ago resulted in senseless death and division. Those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. Though last year the President took two days of before issuing equivocal statements, bowed to overwhelming pressure that he personally condemn white supremacists who incited bloody weekend demonstrations in Charlottesville.

Saw a special report with a KKK chieftan that says that his version of the klan (still with swaztica's and nazi flags) was about foriegn imigration numbers and not about racism as he had Black friends....Seems we have 2 very different groups using the KKK monica

Twitter suspends Proud Boys, Gavin McInnes accounts ahead of Unite the Right rally
This is the racial group which believes anyone not white is inferior....

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#64 2018-08-11 16:27:44

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

This was possibly meantioned but here it is after the child has a name to go with what has happened. Texas opens investigation into reported death of child after leaving ICE custody

Texas state officials are investigating allegations that a child died after being detained in unsanitary conditions at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement family facility, the state's child welfare agency announced.

The fact that Trump administration's controversial zero-tolerance policy led to the separation of thousands of children from their parents after crossing the southwest border illegally could be the only connection if the facility is not as indicated.

Trump has been out spoken when it comes to family coming legally to america. Trump has often called for an end to "chain migration," sometimes blasting it as a security threat. He has repeatedly tied "chain migration" to terrorism by citing the case of Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov the suspect charged with killing eight people on Oct. 31, 2017, after ramming a truck down the bike path along the West Side Highway in New York City. Just how many times he has said that its bad is hypocritical about what he is doing though with Melania Trump parents gaining U.S. citizenship. 8 times Trump slammed 'chain migration' before it apparently helped wife's parents become citizens

The Knavses were eligible for sponsorship by their daughter because she is a U.S. citizen. Citizens may sponsor other types of immediate family members for immigration, such as brothers and sisters, although except for spouses, parents and young children, the numbers they can sponsor are limited. Green card holders, in contrast, may petition only on behalf of spouses and unmarried children.

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#65 2018-08-26 14:32:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Trumps better deal is going to if not already will cost each and every american as the tariffs are continuing to ramp up the war on trade.

Trump Says Mexico Trade Deal May Be Near as Oil Looks Solved

President Donald Trump said the U.S. may be on the verge of a “big Trade Agreement” with Mexico as the Nafta representative of that nation’s president-elect signaled that the thorny issue of rules for the energy industry seems to be resolved. Talks are poised to spill into next week, pushing up against the goal for a deal by the end of the month. The U.S. and Mexico are trying to work out their bilateral issues before Canada rejoins the talks in an attempt to update the decades-old three-nation agreement.

Trump drops 'sunset clause' demand, potentially eliminating a key obstacle to reaching a deal to revamp the trade pact.

“It’s going to come out,” Seade told reporters outside the US trade representative’s office. “It’s no longer what the United States was putting first in any way.”

The deal really is not all that different, then this is little more than cheerleading.....that America is not first.....

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#66 2018-09-15 19:24:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Law officers are to serve and protect so this is just some bad eggs in the bunch right....

Border Patrol agent suspected of killing 4 women was arrested early Saturday after a fifth woman who had been abducted managed to escape from him and notify authorities, law enforcement officials said, describing the agent as a "serial killer."

Webb County Sheriff Martin Cuellar said at a news conference in the border city about 145 miles southwest of San Antonio.

Cuellar said investigators have "very strong evidence" that he is responsible for the deaths of the four women, who are believed to worked as prostitutes. He said investigators believe Ortiz acted alone.

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#67 2018-09-16 15:48:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

I think these post belong here better than in the politics topic after just a few other have been made on this:

Coruption removal or just plain dumbing down our education... Texas State Board of Education votes to erase Hillary Clinton from history curriculum was made by [Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills] work groups.

volunteer work group was tasked with creating a rubric for grading historical figures to deem who was "essential" to learn about and who wasn't. Clinton reportedly scored a five on the 20-point grading rubric, and Keller scored a seven. The State Board of Education in Texas voted on Friday to eliminate several historical figures, including Hillary Clinton and Helen Keller, from the state's social studies curriculum.

Well if its essentail knowledge needed to be able to work we can keep going for many of the jobs we have....

Terraformer wrote:

Do Texas students learn about every single Secretary of State? Or even every President, beyond what their name was and when they served?

That is usually a high school class containing US history of sorts not the American history or revolutionary era details.
But it would seem that none of that matters to some as Taco Bell employee fired for refusing to serve English-speaking customer
Should have tried harder to learn English as it cost you Florida Taco Bell employee fired after refusing to serve customer who wouldn't speak Spanish

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#68 2018-09-16 15:51:39

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Terraformer wrote:

Why were they hired in the first place, if they can't speak English?

https://www.census.gov/topics/populatio … e-use.html

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … ed-states/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … population

US indicated as   80–100% must be inflated...

The issue of America and english language is Limited English Proficient (LEP) and while you could fill out an application it could have also been in the alternative language since we do not enforce english and make just about everything in multiple languages.

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#69 2018-09-16 16:35:45

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

GW Johnson wrote:

Why is Spanish important in the US?  Because about 40% of the territory now part of the lower 48 was formerly Mexico,  until 1848,  not so very long ago.  Local culture and ways of doing things came from Mexico,  not Anglo sources.  They got mistreated while being absorbed,  but they really are still there,  propaganda from the white supremacists notwithstanding.  Which means cross-border ties with related culture in modern Mexico is still quite strong. 

I see the Texas State Board of Education is one issue or offender being discussed here.  White supremacists and similar have been appointed to that board under one-party rule by right wingers for a long time now.  Among other things,  they have attempted time and again to rewrite the story of the Alamo and the Texas war for independence. 

The main thing they want to suppress is the knowledge that many Texas heroes fighting for independence were of Hispanic origin,  not Anglo. The war started initially to resist Santa Anna the recent dictator,  not to secede from Mexico. It morphed into independence later.   The flag that flew over the Alamo was a modified Mexican flag with the Eagle and Cactus replaced by the date 1824,  referring to the Mexican constitution of that date,  which Santa Anna overthrew.

In my time,  we were actually taught some of these things in the public schools,  because the far right had not yet risen to power and packed the state board with its minions.  Again,  I really DESPISE one-party rule!!!  The first thing to fail is unbiased education,  leading to a dumbing-down of the population (because stupid people are easier to subjugate).  Same path Germany followed becoming Nazi. And the others I mentioned.

GW

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#70 2018-09-16 16:37:03

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

kbd512 wrote:

GW,

Is anything to the right of a belief in the supremacy of the proletariat "white supremacy"?

Is education where you live really that different from what it is here in Houston?

You'd be hard pressed to find teachers here in Houston who aren't registered Democrat voters.  The idea that they're engaged in teaching white supremacy to their students strains credulity.  The only concerted effort to rewrite history comes from our not-so-friendly socialists.  The handful of nazis or kkk groups / members that still exist these days control virtually nothing, which is a good thing, and are about as involved in education as bankers are involved in feeding poor people.  The fact that you can merely find a white supremacist somewhere doesn't mean it's a normative belief.

When I learned Texas history, both from my father and in school, one could not help but notice all the Spanish names of the people who fought for Texas Independence from Mexico and all the contributions of people who formerly called Mexico or Spain home.  If that simple fact has recently been removed from Texas history, then that's news to me.

In California, the regressive far left (sadly, what used to be the Democrat Party before the regressive socialist extremists drove them out) have a super majority in government, the judiciary, and education.  The notion that the ideology doesn't permeate is absurd.  You have to pick which is worse since both political parties in modern America have attempted to eliminate their opposition.  Thus far, a good number of Californians are voting with their feet and moving to Texas.  The opposite is not true.  I have to wonder why they'd come to a place they believe is full of hateful right wing regressives unless that is simply not true.  Maybe they've come to realize that's just the brain droppings fed to them by left wing regressives.

I'm sure we can find some swastika waving goose steppers in former President Obama's home state, but the idea that those people in any way represent the general beliefs held by the people who live there is an absurdity.  That same type of belief, projected onto people who live in the southern states, is an equal absurdity two decades into 21st century America.  Schools in the southern states were integrated in the 1950's.  I went to school in the 1980's.  Nobody from my generation even knew what a segregated school was.  The only way in which we knew anything of the practice of segregation or racism in society was because we were taught about it in school or by our parents.

I think Morgan Freeman was right when he said that the best way to eliminate any remaining racism in America is to stop talking about it and stop pretending that racist ideology has any further power over our society.  I, for one, would like to leave that part of our history in the past.  What is equally important is that we not try to erase or otherwise ignore our history, lest we forget the lessons of our past.

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#71 2018-09-16 16:38:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

This is why the US is having all of its troubles with a border that really is just a line in the sand.

Scrubbing the heritage from those that where here before the 1850's will not change how these and others feel about what nations they were or are part of only time will do that.

It is up to the people that live there to demand from those that keep going over that imaginary line to go back and do it the right way.

As much as we can try to say, once you do cross over the border legally; you are american and must adapt. That does not mean throw away your culture only that one needs to have that as a second part of your life and not the primary anymore or just go home.

This goes for little tokyo, china or any others that have come here as you did not come here to be your nation that you are running from. You did make the choice to come and that is to be american, not american chinese, american japanese ect.....As much as I am french plus Indian from the past I am American english speaking and all that goes with that....

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#72 2018-09-16 16:45:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

This is the area that would be considered mexican based on language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_l … ted_States

File:Spanish_in_the_United_States_by_county.gif

The Spanish language in the United States has forty-five million Hispanic and Latino Americans that speak Spanish as their first, second or heritage language,[1] and there are six million Spanish language students in the United States.[2] making it the second most spoken language of the United States. With over 50 million native speakers and second language speakers, the United States now has the second largest Spanish-speaking population in the world after Mexico,[3] although it is not an official language of the country.[4] Spanish is the most studied foreign language in United States schools and is spoken as a native tongue by 41 million people, plus an additional 11 million fluent second-language speakers

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#73 2018-09-17 10:07:24

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,982
Website

Re: South of the Border Politics

I never said we shouldn't have a border.  I never said we shouldn't patrol and enforce that border.  And I never said we shouldn't have English as a common language.  What I have said about the illegal alien problem is based upon two things. 

(1) There is a difference between illegal immigrants and illegal guest workers that too many ignore.  The illegal guest workers are here because the work they must have to survive is here,  and the only population willing to do it is down there.  They are illegal ONLY because of an idiotically-unbalanced policy that makes 10 times fewer legal guest worker permits available than are needed by that job market.

(2) Illegal immigrants come from three sources:  refugees seeking asylum,  legal guest workers that have overstayed their permits,  and illegal guest workers that decide they want to stay permanently.  The first two sources are very small indeed.  The third is quite large,  but would disappear entirely,  if we did something sensible about rationalizing the currently-idiotic guest worker policy to match the realities of that job market. Legal workers are due some of the benefits and protections of being up here,  and will be paying the taxes to help support those services. 

And did you note I said NOT ONE WORD about citizenship?  All I am suggesting is that we make legal a guest worker situation that already exists,  and has,  for decades.  Those people would prefer to be legal guest workers,  so they could live not-in-fear.

Once these guest workers are legal,  then it makes sense to allow those who want to stay longer,  the opportunity to apply for citizenship.  With legal worker status,  and the easier travel across the border that status provides,  fewer will want to stay permanently than now,  because their familiar home culture is down there.

As for the refugees,  they have the legal right to come and ask for asylum.  No guarantees whether they get it,  that is for an immigration court to decide.  There is an implied right to step across that border (at a proper crossing) in order to ask the appropriate official.  What we have recently been doing presuming criminality,  for just being on the US side,  denies them that right. 

Why is this so hard to understand? 

Looks to me like the ideologies blind too many folks to the real facts on the ground.  Believers don't see what is,  because it is not what they want to believe.  That is another reason I despise ideologies.  All of them.

I already see too much of the scapegoating and abuse of such Mexican/Central American groups as designated by the current far-right ideology in power today in the US.  I see increasing public marches of folks with torches and Nazi regalia.  That is the path followed by Nazi Germany.  We don't need that.  That kind of ideology will create both terrorism and dictatorship,  just as it always has,  in so many other places.  And it will ultimately destroy us,  if we are stupid enough to continue down that path.  Just as Nazi Germany was destroyed.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-09-17 10:27:12)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#74 2018-09-17 18:24:30

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,486

Re: South of the Border Politics

GW,

You said nothing of citizenship, but what does the open borders wing of the Democrat Party say about it?

Perhaps your intentions are as pure as the driven snow, but the party you vote for has a habit of "relieving itself" in that snow.

America has a shortage of low skill workers, but high school and college aged kids, and their parents, are complaining that they can't get a job?  Hmm...

I haven't seen any clowns marching around Houston in nazi regalia.  I'm sure we can find one if we look hard enough, but pretending their thinking is in the same ballpark as the mainstream conservative or Republican is pure nonsense.

I have seen numerous other clowns looting, vandalizing, and assaulting other people because their sports team won, their sports team didn't win, there was a hurricane or a flood, some criminal was shot by the Police, someone wore the wrong color clothing, someone from the opposite political party was elected to office, etc.  I'm pretty sure none of them voted for Republicans.  You have to be pretty obtuse not to notice groups like these antifa clowns, or the fact that they outnumber these neo nazi clowns by at least 100 to 1.  For every neo nazi you see out there acting like the fools they are, there's at least a 100 more hiding, right?  Except in the case of the leftist clowns, there's a 100 more who obviously aren't hiding at all, except for covering their faces when they congregate together to cause mayhem so they don't get arrested for their crimes.

I can't tell you how broke my facepalm-o-meter is on this one.  If we could find every clown who had a swastika tattooed on them, we still couldn't come close to the number of clowns advocating for socialism here in America.  If it's not apparent yet, real conservatives and Republicans aren't fans of lawlessness, no matter what group is committing the crimes.  The Republican Party is in far less danger of being taken over by the neo nazis and kkk members than the Democrat Party is in danger of being taken over by the anarchists and socialists.  That's just a fact that should be readily apparent to anyone who can count.

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#75 2018-09-17 18:39:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,868

Re: South of the Border Politics

Thje illegals that are coming for work need to understand that they go back and can not stay forever just to work done with the legal visa process. Those that do it the right way from the beginning also need to understand that same thing as well that it is not forever and that its a limited time period that they are allowed to be here. If you enter illegally once we start the process then you are denied entry as you have already shown that you are unworthy to be given the right of entry.

So what does the US need along its imaginary line?

I saw a map with the natural barriers, roads to make use of for setting up the means to do what we want to have happen.

More sentry gates for allowing those that do want a work a visa to be able to be process correctly.
The easiest sentry gate is to create small outpost processing centers along the border with some fencing in between.
More biometric data should be taken to be able to track where they are once here for the removal if they do not go when there time is up.

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