GPS system for Mars?

tahanson43206 · 2021-05-24 11:14:41

For Oldfart1939 re #100

This is the GPS system for Mars topic (I'm reminding myself) ...

A set of ground stations already exist, and they can certainly be extended.

The existing robots are not designed or intended for use as ground stations for navigation, but they certainly show what is possible.

I understand that NASA's space navigation systems are designed to pull data from the landscape and to navigate based upon matching images of the approaching landscape to the stored data in the navigation system.

External inputs would appear not to be needed at all.

That said, those near-AI systems are not run-of-the-mill commercial grade navigation equipment, so you might be able to win a contract to set up ground stations if you were so inclined and had the time and staff to pull it off.

For your Expedition topic, I would like to suggest just hiring someone take care of the details of landing where you want to go, and just not worry about it.

You (as expedition designer) have ** much ** more important things to worry about.

(th)

Oldfart1939 · 2021-05-24 15:50:01

Part of getting there safely is the responsibility of the flight planner.

The current ground based assets aren't really that useful. They need to be transponders which can be interrogated by the radar of the landing spacecraft. Sufficiently powerful and fast response times.

tahanson43206 · 2021-05-24 17:09:51

For Oldfart1939 re #102 and topic in general

Are you in general agreement that a ground based radio/optical navigation system would be helpful to all those planning to land on Mars?

A ground based system could look a lot like the landers already on site, except they would contain transponders and be designed to operate year round.

This is a different business activity from planning an expedition.

It would take the dedication of a single individual several years to concentrate on just this one feature of the Mars landscape.

You can dispose of the responsibility for this by recruiting a person with the appropriate skill set to organize a business around the concept.

Interesting as it may be, navigation for landing is ** not ** the primary responsibility of the expedition designer/leader.

That responsibility rightly belongs to the ship captain, who will most certainly be a SpaceX employee if your opening scenario holds.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-05-24 18:42:31

One of the things that was a great aid in the landing of persaverence was the Sensors Collect Crucial Data on Mars Landings With Arrival of Perseverance
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/201 … 008391.pdf

another landing feature was terrain recognition

Terrain-Relative Navigation is actually two systems working together: the Lander Vision System and the Safe Target Selection system.

https://www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/publi … CD2002.pdf

Space x landings are no where near the same and most likely can not aid in avoidance.

tahanson43206 · 2021-05-25 06:05:16

For SpaceNut ... thank you ** very ** much for showing OF what a modern "intelligent" landing system looks like. There is a video available showing the many months of testing of that system on Earth, so that (if he had time) OF (or anyone) could learn how it works.

I expect that NASA will make that technology available to SpaceX, and the Starships that land on Mars will be using it, in addition to any beacons that may be landed ahead of time.

In the mean time, that "intelligent" landing system will continue to develop, and it will become capable of even more impressive performance.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2021-07-14 18:04:01

SpaceNut ... this might be the start of a dedicated topic ...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/mast … 56894.html

Masten Space Systems to develop a GPS-like network for the moon
Aria Alamalhodaei
Tue, July 13, 2021, 4:48 PM
Masten Space Systems, a startup that’s aiming to send a lander to the moon in 2023, will develop a lunar navigation and positioning system not unlike GPS here on Earth.
Masten’s prototype is being developed as part of a contract awarded through the Air Force Research Laboratory’s AFWERX program. Once deployed, it'll be a first-of-its-kind off-world navigational system.
Up until this point, spacecraft heading to the moon must carry equipment onboard to detect hazards and assist with navigation. To some extent, it makes sense that a shared navigation network has never been established: Humans have only landed on the moon a handful of times, and while there have been many more uncrewed landings, lunar missions still haven’t exactly been a regular occurrence.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-14 18:49:54

The article can be broken into existing topics as well as creating the moons use if you should chose.

Masten Space Systems has been working on rocket flight since the first prize contest for commercial space but also with its follow up contest for a lunar landing which it did not make the dead lines for any of the cash. They did land some contracts to lift off and land at another site location near by from what I remember.
They are a startup that’s aiming to send a lander to the moon in 2023 if they can get there.

I would suspect that the system would also work for mars but would just need more on orbit satellites since mars is larger than the moon.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-10-16 12:35:40

the Solar System Outer-Net?

Long term plans for Mars E-mail and internet? Theer seem to be at least 8 companies planning to implement the space interweb concept. Added to these Western corporations, China has also indicated they will have a space internet.

NASA website

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/heo/s … networking

The Martian settlement can or other alien space settlement to be connected to the terrestrial Internet down to Earth, which in fact makes it an Interplanetary Internet or 'Outer-Net' if you wish to call it that.

For the Mars colony to actually fully explore the surface a gps constellation would be an asset, satellites could be put in place to minotor Mars food farms inside Bio-Domes, watch for Dust storms, find missing lost tool/bag that was left behind, Tourists / Astronauts who get lost in caverns or dust storms, Visual/IR/UV surface monitoring from Mars orbit. Perhaps use a type of laser reflectometers mounted on satellites in precise orbits around Mars or maybe a type of A.I sats in laser communication with each other. A new generation of GPS, Glonass, Galileo sats could use more modern technology like ion drives to keep sats in correct orbits, satellites on Earth already save a lot of surveying work done on the Earth surface they will save lots of time and enegy on Mars.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-11-12 10:24:02

Will Robots Deliver the Fuel and Food stuffs on Mars?

Walmart is using fully driverless trucks to ramp up its online grocery business
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/08/walmart … iness.html

China inspired or copycat? has developed a prototype miniature helicopter for surveillance work on future Mars missions, according to its space science agency

NASA's Ingenuity helicopter completes its 15th flight on Mars
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … -Mars.html

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#101 2021-05-24 11:14:41

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#102 2021-05-24 15:50:01

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#103 2021-05-24 17:09:51

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#104 2021-05-24 18:42:31

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#105 2021-05-25 06:05:16

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#106 2021-07-14 18:04:01

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#107 2021-07-14 18:49:54

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#108 2021-10-16 12:35:40

Re: GPS system for Mars?

#109 2021-11-12 10:24:02

Re: GPS system for Mars?

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