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#176 2018-02-08 13:35:11

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,919

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

I see that the Flat Earth Society is claiming that the whole event was Photoshopped, and is a fraud. This means that there are some 500 individuals not getting the necessary mental Healthcare.

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#177 2018-02-08 19:55:37

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,878

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Just watched the whole of the FH launch - got to be the most exciting since Apollo 11. Absolutely breathtaking - an instant legend. Loved the way the Space X presenters made clear the company's key mission is to get to Mars.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#178 2018-02-09 10:24:56

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,919

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

I suspect the FH launch reignited a lot of interest in space and rocketry. Probably will sell quite a few FH launches for the company and ultimately justify getting FH human rated. I'd love to see the circumlunar tourist flight before SLS ever flies.

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#179 2018-02-09 19:52:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Louis and Oldfart1939 both topics have been bumped as the expected possibility of these missions are getting closer to possible with the heavies capabities...

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#180 2018-02-12 01:07:45

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,280
Website

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

27595241_10212992820592580_7787991892062371840_n.jpg?oh=db1d9cc085453f7f50ad0a2ae334a817&oe=5B15A514

Orbit and motion of Elon Musk's Tesla over the next 10 years created using the Wolfram Language via Mathematica from JPL data.

Now wait a minute. They said it went past Mars, out to the asteroid belt. The aphelion is about the same distance from the Sun as Mars aphelion. So the orbit is correct.

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#181 2018-02-12 09:20:10

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,262

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Even if it had approached the radius of the asteroid belt, there is an issue with the orbital planes of some of them. As I recall, one of the more interesting ones, Pallas, has a distinctly odd orbit. Psyche's iron/nickel resources would be a bit easier to get to.
Changing orbital planes will require even more fuel.

Last edited by elderflower (2018-02-12 09:25:56)

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#182 2018-02-12 12:48:52

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,280
Website

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

elderflower wrote:

Psyche's iron/nickel resources would be a bit easier to get to.

smile PDT_003.gif

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#183 2018-02-12 12:54:22

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,919

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

One of the items listed in Zubrin's "Entering Space" was exploitation of the asteroid belt from the Mars colony. Obviously a Nickel/Iron asteroid would be enormously valuable to the economy, not only allowing local utility, but for re-export of manufactured goods to Earth and other more distant locations (i.e.: Jovian moons or Titan).

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#184 2018-02-12 12:59:22

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,582

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

A planetary flyby might help, or what if you could send two falcon heavies, and the 2nd one would loft an extra 1st stage.  Then you would have to transfer the payload from the spent 1st stage to the more fresh one (Which would not have lifted anything except itself).  Later on perhaps somehow refueling of the 1st stage in orbit.

Last edited by Void (2018-02-12 13:00:17)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#185 2018-11-05 22:18:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

SpaceX’s Starman, still seated in his Tesla Roadster, just passed Mars

It’s hard to believe that it’s already been nearly nine months since SpaceX launched its Falcon Heavy rocket, sending a test payload into Sun-centric orbit, but here we are. Now, the only passenger that took part in the adventure officially made his way past Mars, marking yet another milestone for the private spaceflight leader.

Direct launch from earth towards mars

1

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nat … 889455002/

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#186 2019-01-03 18:25:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

This is the planned rocket for Zubrin's Moon Direct; using 3 such rockets to get a small crew to the moon with no lunar space station....

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#187 2019-05-07 18:52:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Done...

Back to Falcon heavy for the moon plan while it seems like its a good plan the capsule did have a serious problem and would have killed anyone that would have flown on it.
The cargo plans still work but the small capsule and trunk will not be large enough to get much to the moon or for mars with its current version.
Some of us were expecting a mid sized bfr as a stepping stone that would have been more capable but that is being skipped in favor of a rocket still not going anywhere.

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#188 2019-05-07 19:19:41

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,582

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

While Starship may do Moon service, we can also remember that Blue Origins is up to things as well.

Blue Moon is intended to be developed from New Shepard, and yet will look rather LEM like.  If I understand correctly it may be fully reusable, using BE3 engines, which are Hydrogen Oxygen I think.

New Glen is scheduled to show up, and they are working on New Armstrong, which I believe may be quite a significant device.

And Blue Origins is specifically focused on the Moon.  Perhaps the South Pole of the Moon. 

I think that this stuff could show up while Super Heavy-Starship are getting under way.

We are very fortunate in our potentials.

I even wonder if New Shepard (Updated/Modified), could work on Mars as a hopper.  I don't think that a Hydrogen/Oxygen engine system is necessarily prohibited.  I think one of the reasons to use Methane on Starship and other Blue Origin vehicles is to get away from the boil off, and also because I think the hydrogen tanks have to be so big???  So for a hopper for Mars based on New Shepard, I think Hydrogen/Oxygen would be OK.  Very short term fueling situation.  Boil off not a problem, and tank size not so much trouble on Mars per ~.38 gravity, and >1/100th dense atmosphere.

I believe that Blue Origins has now expressed some interest in Mars, but of course they are most interested in the Moon per presumed benefits it could give Earth, by allowing industry to move into space.
Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-05-07 19:25:13)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#189 2019-06-23 19:37:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

The Falcon heavy has flown a few times now and while a mission to the moon was sold its looking less likely that its going to have and now Elon Musk says people can buy seats to Mars after the first orbital Starship prototype completes its test flight

I think he's jumping the gun big time....

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#190 2019-06-23 19:49:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

These folks hated earth so badly that they spent all there remaining money to get off from it.

SpaceX is about to launch 152 dead people's remains into orbit aboard a Falcon Heavy rocket

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#191 2019-06-24 06:08:48

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 4,148

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

For SpaceNut ...

SpaceNut wrote:

These folks hated earth so badly that they spent all there remaining money to get off from it.

SpaceX is about to launch 152 dead people's remains into orbit aboard a Falcon Heavy rocket

You appear to have been in a bad mood when you wrote that!

In fact, each and every one of those cremains was sponsored by an individual or family which knew of the desire to reach space, or to further the cause of human achievement in space.  The space burial business has been in place for years, and some notable individuals (or their families) have supported the memorial services that go with the experience.

The evolution of the industry and some of its achievements are recorded in interviews on The Space Show.  That's how I know about it, but there have been occasional reports in the press as well.

(th)

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#192 2019-06-24 17:00:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Ya a bit, many have done this and it does bring up the issues for an off world burial options that ultimately does not require assets that will be have a higher degree of value for other uses...

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#193 2019-06-29 04:52:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,878

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Another ordinary day at Space X - thrills and spills aplenty! smile


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z44FX92iCco


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#194 2019-06-29 09:05:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Yes, another successful launch of the Falcon 9 Heavy but what was its importance?
What does it do for using the launcher for man?
What is the loss of mission rate when rushed in reuse?
Has the launch price dropped any?
Other than satelites and such has it launched any large payloads for man to build with?

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#195 2019-06-29 12:15:37

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,838

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

SpaceNut,

Falcon Heavy is an enabling technology for heavy cargo delivery.  There is no requirement written anywhere that says the people and cargo have to go somewhere at the same time on the same rocket.  That was 1960's era thinking that was a function of the relative unreliability of the launch vehicles and the cost of one-shot-wonder rockets.

Fast forward to today, and we have rocket reusability and orbital rendezvous down to a science.  We've practiced the techniques to the point to where we can't get it wrong.  The launch prices for Falcon and Falcon Heavy are so low that we can affordably mount an exploration class mission to the moon or Mars.  Even more affordable reusable mega rockets would be even better, if we had any of those.  Unfortunately, right now we don't have one of those.  It still doesn't matter.  It's not a mission killer.  The modularity of smaller payloads could even be thought of as a mission enabler, so long as we have backup hardware ready to launch.  It makes infinitely good common sense to have two or more of everything we need when we start talking about mounting deep space missions.

There needs to be a paradigm shift in thinking about how we do things.  We have rock solid workhorse rockets, like Atlas V / Falcon / Falcon Heavy, with the reusable New Glenn and Vulcan rockets to follow in the next few years here.  They do everything they need to do as well as or better than anything else anyone has ever had, at comparative bargain prices.  Obviously we would like more powerful rockets, but those are extremely hard to properly design / build / test and extremely expensive to put through the rigorous man-rating process.

I say we continue the reusable mega rocket development, but put that effort on the back-burner, and focus primary efforts on the "everything else" aspects of these deep space missions.  Whenever our mega rockets are thoroughly tested and reliable, then our mission capabilities are just that much greater.  A series of smaller heavy lift rockets can provide equivalent capability in the interim.  We need to focus on launching at least once per week to develop the operational cadence required to support lunar proving ground missions.  Keeping everyone current with the practice of launching heavy lift rockets will be of enormous benefit once more sophisticated super heavy lift rockets have to be supported.

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#196 2019-06-30 14:46:24

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,146
Website

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Falcon-9 and Falcon-Heavy (and Dragon) are what are flying "now".  The plan is to eventually replace these with Starship/Superheavy,  but that vehicle is NOT yet flying.  You have to deal with what you have flying "right now",  for the business you have in-hand "right now",  and for the near-term future.  Nothing hard to understand about that.

My understanding is that Spacex plans to produce and stockpile lots of Falcon-9,  Falcon-Heavy,  and Dragon hardware to cover business in-hand and for the near-term future.  They plan to discontinue production of those items once the stockpiles are sufficient,  so that resources can be devoted to making Starship/SuperHeavy into a flying vehicle. 

You have to remember that Starship/SuperHeavy is first and foremost a transport to low Earth orbit.  It does that job without any refilling.  No tanker flights required.  To go elsewhere,  such as moon or Mars,  requires something like half a dozen tanker flights for on-orbit refilling. 

There may be other ways to go elsewhere that do not require such an effort refilling on-orbit,  but nothing contemplated has the payload capacity of Starship.  If you want the payload,  you go with Starship and accept the cost of the tanker flights.  Nothing very hard to understand about that,  either. 

Now,  in the short term while Falcon-9 and Falcon-Heavy are available,  there is nothing about short trips to orbit or to the moon that need any capability beyond Falcon-Heavy plus Crew Dragon.  Such trips are shorter than 2-3 weeks,  and crews can spend that time cooped up in a capsule.  We've already shown that.  Payload capacity is quite limited,  though.  And a lunar lander vehicle is needed (and apparently being developed by more than one entity).

To go deeper into space,  trips are a lot longer,  and you simply cannot coop a crew up for durations like that inside a space capsule.  For one thing,  they WILL go stir-crazy !!!  For another,  a solar flare will sooner or later kill them.  Both of these effects have been known since Gemini-7 and the entire Apollo moon landing set of flights.  Denying these truths means the denier really doesn't want to go.  And we have known that for a long time.

For longer trips like that (months to years),  the crew habitat is very much larger and must also have a radiation shelter.  Supposedly,  Starship,  which really is much larger,  will also have some sort of solar storm shelter,  according to Musk,  but no details are available.  Nothing about the designs NASA seems to be funding addresses radiation sheltering at all. 

As for launch vehicles,  what I see with Spacex (the Falcons plus Super Heavy) and Blue Origin (New Glenn) looks rather promising.  What I see with NASA (SLS) does not.  But because congressional politics is running NASA management decisions,  I don't see NASA cancelling SLS.  I just don't see it getting used very much. 

There,  I've put my 2 cents' worth in.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2019-06-30 14:49:37)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#197 2019-07-21 15:10:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 20,263

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

The zubrin plan is to make use of 3 or 4 of these to make moon mission plausible but we just missed the 50th aniversary

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#198 2019-10-15 15:39:16

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,280
Website

Re: Falcon Heavy Assembly Underway

Well, Dragon was originally designed as a bid for CEV when George W. was president. That was a vehicle for the Moon. I could post a link to the thread for my idea of a Moon mission. That would take 1 Falcon Heavy to deliver the LM to Lunar orbit, then a second for Dragon. Subsequent missions would only require a single FH for the Dragon; LM parked in Lunar orbit.

Moon mission today - Dragon & Mars hab

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