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#676 2023-11-28 05:56:14

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,413

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Steve told us that only dollars spent per kiloWatt or kiloWatt-hour is a figure of merit.  If that's true, then the following images don't paint a very flattering picture for the prospect of building new photovoltaic and wind turbine farms in Minnesota.

Wind-and-Solar-LCOEs-2023-costs-rising-1-1024x573.jpg

Levelized-cost-of-energy-existing-minnesota-power-plants-vs-2023-wind-and-solar-prices-1024x562.jpg

MN-utility-rates-by-company-through-2023-1024x568.jpg

If we can't start making new wind turbine farms cost less to build and operate than new nuclear power plants, then we won't be building very many of them.  All of the new wind turbine projects on the East Coast have already been killed, specifically because they were going to cost more money to build than a new build nuclear reactor.

If energy input doesn't matter, materials consumption doesn't matter, and cost doesn't matter, then I guess that only leaves green religion.  I think that's what really matters to these people.  Practicality is never a consideration.

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#677 2023-11-28 10:37:35

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,070

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

The middle chart is not time based but the two others are.  Are their trends inflation adjusted?  If not then the trends are not that bad for a 10-year period, let's say for each 2013 to 2023?

Peter Zeihan has mentioned that wind and solar have a high up-front capital cost, but do I understand the middle chart when I note that if you look at the proportion of blue (Capital) to yellow (Returns), look similar for all but Coal, which does not seem to record them.

As a proportion grey (Operation and Maintenance) looks the worst for Nuclear, and rather good for wind and solar.

I presume that any external energy used in wind and solar such as hydrocarbons is part of the grey factor.  Wind and solar otherwise do not have a fuel cost.  Nuclear seems to be the next best for fuel cost proportionally.

I am not trying to be trouble, perhaps I need some better understanding.

Am I wrong to think that large returns, (Yellow) relative to capital, (Blue) is a good thing?

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-11-28 10:49:28)


Done.

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#678 2023-11-28 15:35:46

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,413

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Void,

The middle chart is based upon time.  It's a cost and profit breakdown for 2023.  The first chart show capital costs of wind and solar over time.  The third chart shows energy costs over time (edit: to the people paying for the electricity).

The reason you don't see any "yellow" for coal is that they're not presently operating the coal plants at a profit (no returns).  It even says so on the chart.  The reason you see very little yellow for nuclear is that they're not making a huge profit, either.  They make enough money to pay for the assets, plus a small profit for their investors ($3.38/MWh to $5.22/MWh).  Some of the money that would otherwise be profit is set aside for decommissioning costs, hence the high O&M costs.

Take note of the fact that costs are dollars spent or returned (to the shareholders), per MegaWatt-hour.

For each MegaWatt-hour of electricity generated, these are the costs and profits of New Wind and New Solar:
New Wind Costs: $36.06/MWh
New Wind Profits: $26.86/MWh
New Solar Costs: $52.13/MWh
New Solar Profits: $51.68/MWh

Total costs per MegaWatt-hour (MWh):
Natural Gas: $25.63/MWh
Nuclear: $35.80/MWh to $42.02/MWh
Coal: $31.17/MWh
New Wind: $62.91/MWh
New Solar: $103.82/MWh

Watt-hours of energy produced per penny ($0.01) spent:
Natural Gas: 39,017Wh
Nuclear: 23,798Wh to 27,933Wh
Coal: 32,082Wh
New Wind: 15,896Wh
New Solar: 9,632Wh

Why are wind generated electrons 2X more costly than coal, gas, or nuclear generated electrons?
Why are solar generated electrons 4X more costly than coal, gas, or nuclear generated electrons?

As to your question:

Am I wrong to think that large returns, (Yellow) relative to capital, (Blue) is a good thing?

Are you paying for electricity?
Are you an XCel shareholder with a substantial stock portfolio?
Are you a contractor who installs wind turbines or photovoltaic panels, or a manufacturer who makes them?

I guess what you think depends upon which one of those you are.  I pay for electricity like everyone else, but don't own any stock in XCel, so you can imagine my opinion on this.

Think and grow rich, right?

Last edited by kbd512 (2023-11-28 18:28:24)

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#679 2023-11-28 18:47:37

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,398

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Steve, I believe Kbd512 has already talked a great deal about the economics of electricity sources on a $/kWh basis.  So I feel the need to add very little on that point.

Your question was 'how much of a nations electricity could be met by wind power?'  This is difficult to answer generally, but I can talk around some of the problems.  Firstly, the wind and solar resources of any locality are unique.  What can be done in Britain, or Texas or the Netherlands, is very different to what can be achieved in Germany, Eastern China or Central Asia.  Levelised Cost of Energy really doesn't tell you much at all about the viability of wind or solar power in any particular locality.  And viability also depends upon the constancy of the resource and seasonal variability, as well as the total number of kWh generated over a year.  The capital cost of offshore wind depends on sea bed depth.  The maintenance burden of wind turbines and solar panels are also a strong function of the environment they operate in.  So real generating cost is highly variable.  Before we even start looking at other problems, the means LCOE really isn't worth the paper it is printed on.  It gives people the highly misleading impression that these energy sources will give tge same predictable results everywhere and are viable everywhere.  This is clearly not the case.

Below is a link to Gridwatch, which provides data on the sources of electricity supplying the UK grid.
https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Britain has gone further with wind power than any other country in the world.  We have the best wind resources of any developed economy.  Take a look at the curves shown in the link.  You will notice that there are some days where wind provides half or more of UK electricity.  Over the course of a year, it now provides around 30% of the kWh consumed in the UK grid.  But notice also the many times when it's contribution is minimal or even close to zero.  Supply has to balance demand microsecond to microsecond in a grid system, or frequency oscillations will rapidly destabilise the grid.  So supply must always meet demand.  We cannot control the wind.  There are times when it produces an abundance of power and times when it produces very little.  We cannot easily control demand either, although we can in emergencies cut off entire blocks of consumers from the grid by opening breakers at substations.  But this is costly, both in the disruption it causes consumers and the need to manually reset breakers at distribution transformer stations.  So the overwhelming preference is not to control demand, but ensure there is always supply to meet demand.

Meeting this condition requires that the grid must always have available enough controllable supply to meet demand.  This means that every MW of wind power capacity that serves the grid, must be backed up by an equal capacity of gas turbines or steam generation, able to be brought on line as rapidly as needed for load balancing.  So when we choose to build a wind farm, we are not building it instead of a gas turbine powerplant, we are building it as well as the GT powerplant.  That GT powerplant must be paid for, manned, maintained and fuelled, just to sit there waiting for the wind to stop generating.  Fuel is a considerable cost, but as you can see from the bar charts that Kbd512 has produced, it far from the only cost associated with a fuel burning powerplant.  The bar chart values assume constant generation.

As wind capacity scales up, two things happen.  Firstly, wind power displaces output from the GTPP, reducing fuel consumption.  That is a win.  But the capital, maintenance and manning costs of the GTPP must still be paid for and spread over a smaller market share.  So adding wind power will make electricity from other generators more expensive.  In effect, the consumer is paying the costs of two powerplants instead of just one.  This why, regardless of local wind resources, adding wind capacity to the grid has always phshed up power prices wherever it has been done.  Secondly, when wind capacity increases beyond the ability of the grid to absorb it at peak generating times, a progressively larger part of the wind electricity must be curtailed.  If wind is providing 100% of electricity demand at any time, further increases in power cannot be used by the grid and turbines must be shut down.  This reduces the effective capacity factor of wind energy added to the grid.  So the more wind power you build and add to the grid, the more poorly it is utilised.  Storage doesn't really solve either problem very well.  Firstly, storage systems are just another type of powerplant, with their own capital and operating costs.  Secondly, the cost effectiveness of these systems declines the longer they must store energy without releasing it.  So storage on a tinescale greatercthan hours becomes progressively more problematic.

There are other practical concerns around material resource demands of wind and solar systems.  Even on a per kWh generated basis, wind requires and order of magnitude more metals per kWh than a pressurised water reactor.  For Solar PV, it is 2 orders of magnitude.  And these estimates are based on wind and solar generation in good locations.  Many locations will be poorer.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-11-28 19:17:15)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#680 2023-11-28 19:23:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Energy conversion from the various combinations of elements that we use to make power seems to always end in a not so efficient output of that energy.

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#681 2023-11-29 03:18:06

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,398

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

I posted on grid connected storage heaters here.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 59#p216559

This is probably the best option we have for integrating intermittent renewables into the grid.  But it introduces a lot of problems.  The grid operator must be capable of controlling millions of distributed loads.  That is no small task and it introduces a lot of complexity into the grid.  For small scale generation, this is easier.  At a household or even industrial level, people can adjust their load.  But it is very tough to do this in a grid that encompasses an entire nation.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-11-29 03:23:11)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#682 2023-12-19 10:39:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

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#683 2023-12-20 12:35:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

No credit card or large roll under the mattress then we need to learn how
How to Transition to Solar Power on a Budget

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#684 2023-12-31 19:27:21

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

So, for the location in NH with no tracking means I get to set them for the south position and an angle for my latitude 43.4°.

Fixed tilt
If you're mounting the photovoltaic panels at a stationary angle, such as on your roof, the most efficient angle is 36.1°
.
2-Season tilt
If you're planning to change the angle of your photovoltaic panels twice per year, the most efficient angle is 19.4° in summer months and 57.2° in winter months.

4-Season tilt
When changing the angle of your photovoltaic panels each season, the most efficient angle is 15.6° in summer months and 62.6° in winter months, and 40.2° in autumn and spring months.

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#685 2024-01-14 18:08:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

States with big climate goals strip local power to block green projects

Netherlands unveils two ‘solar cycle paths’ to support clean-energy grid: ‘A clever use of existing space’


AA1mJt6P.img?w=640&h=388&m=6

The project is the work of Colas Group company Wattway and Dutch construction company BAM Royal Group, and each path will feature over 10,000 square feet of solar surface, generating 160 MWh/year of renewable energy.

Several other companies are also working on similar products, such as Solar Roadways, while others are working on solar canopies that can be installed over roads instead of on the roads themselves.

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#686 2024-01-14 22:40:42

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,070

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Railroads then Spacenut: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/27/ra … thing-yet/
Quote:

Railroads & Solar Power: You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet
2 years ago
Tina Casey

I like it when a new use can be made of an old asset.  In the case of trains the solar panels will not have to bear the weight of heavy vehicles.

I can imagine robots that would also take the path to clean the panels, of dirt and snow, but of course that needs to be so that it will not derail trains.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-01-14 22:44:23)


Done.

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#687 2024-01-15 09:52:10

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

I agree why cover unused areas when we can make use of the lands already in use.
I know that due to east west roads that a canopy of panels would cut down on the number of deaths caused by solar blindness at hours in the morning and evening. I have an email to the state's governor at the time suggesting just that, but I am sure that budget bean counting got in the way rather than the benefits from doing so.

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#688 2024-01-15 10:16:21

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,070

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Well, yes, in the case of freeways and highways, above traffic might make sense.  So, the idea should be explored in my opinion.  I am hesitant to suggest it but if you did have an overhead, then a trolly type thing might seem possible but very likely to be full of problems to send power to cars.  In that case the solar panels may shelter such a power rail or transformer coil from buildups of ice snow and the rain.  But a great deal would be needed.  Not ready to commit too much expectations to it.

For Railroads the panels may be down low, if between tracks or along side the tracks.

A cleaning robot might have wheels for the tracks, but also wheels to get off the tracks like a car, or legs to get on and off the tracks.  GPS might be able to make sure the robots get out of the way of trains.  signaled to.

Otherwise the robots should be constructed so that if hit by a train they would be knocked out of the way and not get under the wheels.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2024-01-15 10:19:28)


Done.

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#689 2024-03-09 12:49:18

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Mars is not the only place that has a limited source of sun as How one of the coldest, darkest towns on Earth is trying to get more energy from the sun

In the rugged mountains and frozen fjords that surround Greenland’s northernmost town, Located less than 1,000 miles from the North Pole, Qaanaaq can sometimes feel like “the end of the world,”

Residents struggle to earn a living through hunting and fishing, which leaves them unable to afford the imported oil that keeps their homes warm and lit during the long Arctic night. The high cost of electricity and heat has forced some people to abandon their traditional livelihoods — or to leave the town altogether.

Qaanaaq residents should be able to heat their homes without sacrificing their culture,

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#690 2024-03-12 08:54:16

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,012

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Louis might have appreciated this news item:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … 13b1&ei=11

Cool Down
66.2K Followers
Researchers achieve breakthrough in solar technology: ‘A radically new way of generating electricity from solar energy’
Story by Jeremiah Budin • 2w • 2 min read

Researchers at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenberg, Sweden, have succeeded in creating a system that can capture and store solar energy for up to 18 years and can produce electricity when connected to a thermoelectric generator.

The implications of this breakthrough are major: with it, solar energy can be stored and sent anywhere in the world and then converted into electricity on demand.

The result is a closed, circular system that works without generating planet-overheating carbon dioxide pollution.

The researchers tested their discovery by harvesting solar energy in Sweden and sending it to colleagues at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, who were able to turn it into usable electricity.

“This is a radically new way of generating electricity from solar energy. It means that we can use solar energy to produce electricity regardless of weather, time of day, season, or geographical location,” said research leader Kasper Moth-Poulsen, professor at the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering at Chalmers. “I’m very excited about this work. We hope with future development this will be an important part in the future energy system.”

Solar energy is on the rise, and it is undoubtedly better for the planet than dirty energy sources like oil or gas, but it also comes with its own difficulties — such as the fact that it can only be harvested when the sun is shining, making it less viable in parts of the world that don’t get much sun.

However, with this new invention, the potential for solar energy becomes even greater. The researchers believe that it could eventually replace electric car batteries and solar cells.

“Together with the various research groups included in the project, we are now working to streamline the system,” professor Moth-Poulsen said. “The amount of electricity or heat it can extract needs to be increased.”

“So far, we have only generated small amounts of electricity, but the new results show that the concept really works. It looks very promising,” Zhihang Wang, another of the researchers on the project, said.

Not much detail... I'll put the original article in the next post

(th)

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#691 2024-03-12 09:05:56

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,012

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

This appears to be the source of the teaser in the previous post ...

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/04/ … scientists

This article is from more than a year ago ... 2017 >> 2022

By Lottie Limb
Published on 12/04/2022 - 14:49•Updated 20/03/2023 - 15:35

The future of solar has just got brighter with this ‘ultra-thin’ device for converting stored energy into electricity.

Solar-powered electronics are one step closer to becoming an everyday part of our lives thanks to a “radical” new scientific breakthrough.

In 2017, scientists at a Swedish university created an energy system that makes it possible to capture and store solar energy for up to 18 years, releasing it as heat when needed.

Now the researchers have succeeded in getting the system to produce electricity by connecting it to a thermoelectric generator. The concept was developed at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenberg in 2022. It could pave the way for self-charging electronics that use stored solar energy on demand.

“This is a radically new way of generating electricity from solar energy. It means that we can use solar energy to produce electricity regardless of weather, time of day, season, or geographical location,” explains research leader Kasper Moth-Poulsen, Professor at the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering at Chalmers.

“I’m very excited about this work,” he adds. “We hope with future development this will be an important part in the future energy system.”

How can solar energy be stored?
Chalmers University of Technology

These molecules change shape when hit by sunlight, and are stored in liquid form for later use.Chalmers University of Technology
Solar energy is a variable renewable because for the most part it, it only works when the sun shines. But technology to combat this much-discussed flaw is already being developed at a fast pace.

Solar panels have been made from waste crops that absorb UV light even on cloudy days while ‘night solar panels’ have been created that work even once the sun has set.

Long-term storage of the energy they generate is another matter. The solar energy system created at Chalmers back in 2017 is known as ‘MOST’, meaning Molecular Solar Thermal Energy Storage Systems.

It appears that the "news" is that researchers in China were able to pull energy out of the molecules "shaped" in Sweden.

I just learned that Gemini has been throttled!  It can no longer access the Internet. Bummer!

(th)

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#692 2024-03-12 09:22:24

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,012

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Bing >> Copilot suggested visiting Chalmers university....

https://www.chalmers.se/en/current/news … on-demand/

News
K Converting solar energy to electricity on demand
News article 12 Apr 2022 02:00

Converting solar energy to electricity on demand

The researchers behind an energy system that makes it possible to capture solar energy, store it for up to eighteen years and release it when and where it is needed have now taken the system a step further. After previously demonstrating how the energy can be extracted as heat, they have now succeeded in getting the system to produce electricity, by connecting it to a thermoelectric generator. Eventually, the research – developed at Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden – could lead to self-charging electronics using stored solar energy on demand.

“This is a radically new way of generating electricity from solar energy. It means that we can use solar energy to produce electricity regardless of weather, time of day, season, or geographical location. It is a closed system that can operate without causing carbon dioxide emissions,” says research leader Kasper Moth-Poulsen, Professor at the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering at Chalmers.

The new technology is based on the solar energy system MOST – Molecular Solar Thermal Energy Storage Systems, developed at Chalmers University of Technology. Very simply, the technology is based on a specially designed molecule that changes shape when it comes into contact with sunlight. The research has already attracted great interest worldwide when it has been presented at earlier stages.

The new study, published in Cell Reports Physical Science and carried out in collaboration with researchers in Shanghai, takes the solar energy system a step further, detailing how it can be combined with a compact thermoelectric generator to convert solar energy into electricity.

Ultra-thin chip converts heat into electricity

The Swedish researchers sent their specially designed molecule, loaded with solar energy, to colleagues Tao Li
and Zhiyu Hu at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, where the energy was released and converted into electricity
using the generator they developed there. Essentially, Swedish sunshine was sent to the other side of the world and converted into electricity in China.


“The generator is an ultra-thin chip that could be integrated into electronics such as headphones, smart watches and telephones. So far, we have only generated small amounts of electricity, but the new results show that the concept really works. It looks very promising,” says researcher Zhihang Wang from Chalmers University of Technology.

Fossil free, emissions free

The research has great potential for renewable and emissions-free energy production. But a lot of research and development remains before we will be able to charge our technical gadgets or heat our homes with the system's stored solar energy.

“Together with the various research groups included in the project, we are now working to streamline the system. The amount of electricity or heat it can extract needs to be increased. Even if the energy system is based on simple basic materials, it needs to be adapted to be sufficiently cost-effective to produce, and thus possible to launch more broadly,” says Kasper Moth-Poulsen.

More about the Most technology

Molecular Solar Thermal Energy Storage Systems, Most, is a closed energy system based on a specially designed molecule of carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, which when hit by sunlight changes shape into an energy-rich isomer – a molecule made up of the same atoms but arranged together in a different way. The isomer can then be stored in liquid form for later use when needed, such as at night or in winter. The researchers have refined the system to the point that it is now possible to store the energy for up to 18 years. A specially designed catalyst releases the saved energy as heat while returning the molecule to its original shape, so it can then be reused in the heating system.
Now, in combination with an micrometer-thin thermoelectric generator, the energy system can also generate electricity to order.

Read previous press releases about the energy system Most

Window film can even out the temperature using solar energy
Emission-free energy system saves heat from the summer sun to the winter


More about the research and the scientific article

The study Chip-scale solar thermal electrical power generation is published in Cell Reports Physical Science. The article is written by Zhihang Wang, Zhenhua Wu, Zhiyu Hu, Jessica Orrego-Hernández, Erzhen Mu, Zhao-Yang Zhang, Martyn Jevric, Yang Liu, Xuecheng Fu, Fengdan Wang, Tao Li and Kasper Moth-Poulsen. The researchers are active at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden, Shanghai Jiao Tong University and Henan Polytechnic University in China, as well as at the Institute of Materials Science in Barcelona and the Catalan Department of Research and Advanced Studies, ICREA, in Spain.

The research has been funded by the Knut and Alice Wallenberg Foundation, the Swedish Foundation for Strategic Research, the Swedish Research Council Formas, the Swedish Energy Agency, the European Research Council (ERC) under grant agreement CoG, PHOTHERM - 101002131, the Catalan Institute of Advanced Studies (ICREA), and the European Union's Horizon 2020 Framework Programme under grant agreement no. 951801.

For more information contact:
Zhihang Wang, Post Doc, Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden

Kasper Moth-Poulsen, Professor, Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden

Text: Jenny Holmstrand, Mia Halleröd Palmgren, Joshua Worth

Tags:
nano
Department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering
Updated 30 November 2023, 18:15Published 12 April 2022, 02:00
Leave feedback

The impression I get is that this system might be ten years out, and that it might be usable on a small scale.  As electronics is using less and less power, perhaps this system will prove more robust for energy storage than other chemical systems.

(th)

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#693 2024-03-16 08:55:15

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

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#694 2024-03-21 17:46:27

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,820

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Shocking containerized powerhouse packs massive 240 solar panel modules

BB1khoUD.img?w=768&h=432&m=6

Opens and closes like an accordion.
The SolarCont is designed to fit inside a standard-sized container that measures a little over 19 feet ( six meters) in length, is nearly eight feet (2.4 meters) wide, and nine and a half feet (2.9 meters) tall.
Using a team of three or four people, the setup can be unfolded to occupy 7,750 square feet (720sq. m.) in about five hours and generate power immediately. When power is no longer required, the modules can easily be squeezed back into a container-fitting configuration.
On an estimation that an average household in Germany consumes 4,000 kWh of electricity every year, SolarCont can meet the energy needs of 32 households.

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#695 2024-03-21 22:32:58

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,413

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

SpaceNut,

Finally.  Someone has their thinking cap on.  When it quits working, everything goes back into the box and you can send it back to the factory to be recycled or refurbished.  This is one of the precious few photovoltaic array concepts that makes a modicum of sense to me.  We need units about twice that size that can be delivered by semi-trucks and emplaced without additional onsite equipment.

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#696 2024-03-22 18:02:47

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,012

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Speaking of putting thinking caps on .... here is a link to a report on a company in ? Texas ? combining storage and solar rooftop power.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/revolutionar … 00928.html

Revolutionary tech company transforms home energy storage with simple, modular method — here's how it works
Rick Kazmer
Thu, March 21, 2024 at 12:00 AM EDT·3 min read
2


Anyone considering a rooftop solar system will have a lot to like about Texas-based Yotta Energy's innovation.

Interestingly, it's what the setup doesn't include that could be most game-changing for the small- and medium-sized businesses targeted by the company, per a CleanTechnica report.

There's no extra land area needed for energy storage — and no trenching, no structure, and no foundation, either. Owners won't need landscaping, fencing, or aesthetics. And there's no cause for extra building and electrical permits for a big battery.

It's accomplished by a unique concept where a series of small batteries are installed underneath rooftop panels. This is in contrast to traditional systems, where a larger battery is installed elsewhere in the home or business to store solar energy.

"The company works directly with customers in what they view as an underserved market to deliver a one-stop-shop for solar and energy storage," CleanTechnica's Kyle Field wrote in a story about the invention.

When solar panels catch sunlight, they create DC energy. An inverter is used to transition the power to AC, before being stored in a battery for later use. Tesla's Powerwalls, for example, are a popular setup for homes and businesses, with more than 500,000 installed. They typically cost about $10,000 or more.

Watch now: What's the true environmental impact of renewable energy?
Yotta's design eliminates the need to wire in another system for the battery. The small power packs placed under the panels weigh a manageable 53 pounds each, including micro inverters to convert the energy from DC to AC.

Installers typically need to add weight in other designs to help secure the rigging to the structure. But with Yotta, the batteries act as ballasts for the system, per the CleanTechnica report.

The decentralized storage adds up to lower installation, lifetime maintenance, and operational costs as part of a highly efficient system, Yotta claims on its website.

The batteries use lithium-iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry, a type of battery made by larger manufacturers, including CATL, and others. It's cheaper than traditional power packs because LFP uses less expensive materials.

Yotta's battery has successfully operated in the Texas heat. The white batteries reflect the sun and are well-insulated. Furthermore, the designers created the power packs with fins that allow them to self-cool without external coolant.

Later this year, the company plans to install systems in the northern part of the country to test the setup in colder climates, according to CleanTechnica.

"We remain dedicated to pushing the boundaries of sustainable technology, driving impactful change, and shaping a brighter, cleaner future for generations to come," Yotta CEO Omeed Badkoobeh said in a press release.

The innovation could help to expand a growing U.S. renewable energy sector, already producing 20% of the nation's power, with government statistics showing that solar accounts for 3.4% of that mix.

Transitioning to cleaner power sources reduces planet-warming air pollution created when dirty energy is used to make electricity. What's more, switching to renewables has a wide range of health benefits, extending even to the classroom. That's because the Earth's overheating has been found to impact grades, according to experts.

The Yotta team intends to be a part of the solution and is already installing multitudes of megawatts worth of systems.

"Sustainable innovation is key to addressing the world's energy challenges," Badkoobeh said in the statement.

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#697 2024-03-27 19:05:42

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,012

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

SpaceNut published a link to this article in the Geothermal topic ....

Researchers at Penn State University in the US have developed a ‘dual-harvester’ that generates clean energy and directs heat away from the Earth. The harvester consists of a solar cell and uses radiative cooling to save more than 30 percent of electricity compared to standard solar cells.

What is radiative cooling?
Radiative cooling is the process through which objects on Earth shed their thermal energy into outer space without warming their surroundings. Heat is emitted in the form of infrared light, which escapes directly from the Earth’s atmosphere.

The team leveraged this principle to develop a dual cooling and power strategy, generating clean energy through a solar cell while simultaneously getting rid of heat.

“In radiative cooling, the infrared light radiates from a piece of transparent, low-iron glass,” explained Linxiao Zhu, assistant professor of mechanical engineering and leader of the research team. “The light bounces off the glass, passes through the atmosphere without warming the surrounding air, and lands in outer space, which we call the cold universe.”
While this does not directly help generate energy, cooling generated using this approach can be used in place of air-conditioners and refrigerators and reduce the consumption of electricity that would have otherwise been used to do this work.


Experimental setup and illustration of the simultaneous radiative cooling and solar power generation. (Source: Ghosh et al. )

© Provided by Interesting Engineering
How does a dual-energy harvester work?
Zhu was part of the team that invented daytime radiative cooling a decade ago. The technique is currently being explored as a zero-carbon cooling method.

In their recent work, Zhu’s team designed a new ultrathin, transparent radiative cooler that transmits most of the light through it. This way, a solar cell placed below the radiative cooling material can continue to generate electricity while the radiative cooler does its thing.

“At night and during the day, the radiative cooler works as a 24/7 natural air conditioner,” highlighted Pramit Ghosh, a doctoral student in mechanical engineering at Penn State. “Even on a hot day, the radiative cooler is cold to the touch.”

Tests carried out by the researchers showed that the cooler could drop ambient air temperature by as much as five degrees Celsius during the day. The cooling produced in this manner can be pumped using a fan to keep a building cool round the clock, acting as a natural air conditioner.

The key advantage of such a system is that dual-energy harvesters occupy the same space and can continue to work in tandem, irrespective of the time of the day. The setup is also minimal and can be placed on a rooftop or the ground, much like solar cells are installed.

“Based on these experimental results, using the two harvesters together has the potential to significantly outperform a bare solar cell, which is a key renewable energy technology,” Zhu added.

The research findings were published in Physical Science earlier this month.

Study Abstract
Daytime radiative cooling to below ambient air temperature relies on radiating heat while reflecting most sunlight. Thus, subambient daytime radiative cooling has been largely incompatible with solar energy harvesting. Despite the great theoretical potential of coharvesting the cold universe and the sun as renewable resources, subambient daytime radiative cooling and significant solar power generation have not been achieved simultaneously. Here, we introduce and demonstrate simultaneous subambient daytime radiative cooling and photovoltaic power generation from the same area. Outdoor experiments show that the radiative cooler reaches 5.1°C below the ambient temperature under ∼1,000 W/m2 sunlight, and the photovoltaic cell produces 159.9 W/m2 simultaneously and from the same area. The radiative cooling power at ambient temperature is measured to be 63.8 W/m2 under peak sunlight and 87.0 W/m2 at night. The results highlight the great potential of simultaneous radiative cooling and sunlight harvesting for renewable energy.

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