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#626 2022-08-06 17:21:23

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,133

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Remember that Earth is not mars that aside from the lower solar there is the pesky dust build up so when considering mars we need at a minimum 3 times the solar panels to get the same function power levels.
What to Know About Installing An Off-Grid Solar Power System

Mars is definitely an off grid use

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#627 2022-10-03 10:44:32

tahanson43206
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar … index.html

Success story of Solar Power in Florida!

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage
Rachel Ramirez

By Rachel Ramirez, CNN

Updated 11:53 AM EDT, Sun October 2, 2022

The Babcock Ranch solar array, which is run by Florida Power and Light.
Jeff Greenberg/Education Images/Universal Images Group/Getty Images
CNN

Anthony Grande moved away from Fort Myers three years ago in large part because of the hurricane risk. He has lived in southwest Florida for nearly 19 years, had experienced Hurricanes Charley in 2004 and Irma in 2017 and saw what stronger storms could do to the coast.

Grande told CNN he wanted to find a new home where developers prioritized climate resiliency in a state that is increasingly vulnerable to record-breaking storm surge, catastrophic wind and historic rainfall.

What he found was Babcock Ranch — only 12 miles northeast of Fort Myers, yet seemingly light years away.

This aerial photo shows damaged homes and debris in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian, Thursday, Sept. 29, 2022, in Fort Myers, Fla. (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)

Hurricane Ian has devastated the Fort Myers area. Some people floated on freezers to escape

Babcock Ranch calls itself “America’s first solar-powered town.” Its nearby solar array — made up of 700,000 individual panels — generates more electricity than the 2,000-home neighborhood uses, in a state where most electricity is generated by burning natural gas, a planet-warming fossil fuel.

The streets in this meticulously planned neighborhood were designed to flood so houses don’t. Native landscaping along roads helps control storm water. Power and internet lines are buried to avoid wind damage. This is all in addition to being built to Florida’s robust building codes.

Some residents, like Grande, installed more solar panels on their roofs and added battery systems as an extra layer of protection from power outages. Many drive electric vehicles, taking full advantage of solar energy in the Sunshine State.

Climate resiliency was built into the fabric of the town with stronger storms in mind.

So when Hurricane Ian came barreling toward southwest Florida this week, it was a true test for the community. The storm obliterated the nearby Fort Myers and Naples areas with record-breaking surge and winds over 100 mph. It knocked out power to more than 2.6 million customers in the state, including 90% of Charlotte County.

But the lights stayed on in Babcock Ranch.

“It certainly exceeded our expectations of a major hurricane,” Grande, 58, told CNN.

A damaged building is seen in Babcock Ranch after Hurricane Ian.

Courtesy Nancy Chorpenning

An uprooted tree in Babcock Ranch after Hurricane Ian.
Courtesy Nancy Chorpenning

The storm uprooted trees and tore shingles from roofs, but other than that Grande said there is no major damage. Its residents say Babcock Ranch is proof that an eco-conscious and solar-powered town can withstand the wrath of a near-Category 5 storm.

“We have proof of the case now because [the hurricane] came right over us,” Nancy Chorpenning, a 68-year-old Babcock Ranch resident, told CNN. “We have water, electricity, internet — and we may be the only people in Southwest Florida who are that fortunate.”

Grande said Hurricane Ian came through southwest Florida “like a freight train.” But he wasn’t afraid that he would lose everything in a storm, like he was when he lived in Fort Myers.

“We’re very, very blessed and fortunate to not be experiencing what they’re experiencing now in Sanibel Island and Fort Myers Beach,” Grande said. “In the times that we’re living in right now with climate change, the beach is not the place to live or have a business.”

© Mapbox © OpenStreetMap Improve this map
Solar success
Syd Kitson, a former professional football player for the Green Bay Packers and Dallas Cowboys, is the mastermind behind Babcock Ranch. Kitson envisioned it to be an eco-conscious and innovative neighborhood that is safe and resilient from storms like Ian.

The ranch broke ground in 2015 with the construction of the solar array — which was built and is run by Florida Power and Light — and its first residents moved into the town in 2018. Since then, the array has doubled in size and thousands of people have made Babcock their home.

(th)

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#628 2022-10-03 19:12:37

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/03/ba … real-test/

100 mph was what was seen on the ranch

The ground mounting must have been solid for this to stay put.

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#629 2022-12-08 20:33:59

tahanson43206
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

The article at the link below is about mounting solar panels directly on the ground in Texas.  I thought of Louis and his rolls of solar panels...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/100mw-solar- … 00247.html

A 100MW solar farm in Texas will mount panels directly on the ground

Eric Wesoff
Thu, December 8, 2022 at 1:01 PM

The 100-megawatt utility-scale solar project just announced by Erthos is not even close to the largest solar project currently being developed in the U.S., but it will be the only large solar farm with panels installed directly on the ground, without elevated steel racking or trackers.

Erthos signed an agreement with project developer Industrial Sun for the utility-scale solar project in Texas. It’s unlike any other big solar project ever deployed, using an approach that has the potential to take a bite out of the rising costs of solar installations, according to Erthos’ founders and funders.

Canary Media covered Erthos when it unstealthed in June 2021 and when it raised $17.5 million in March of this year. The company’s system is unique, as we reported:

It’s a radical innovation that challenges a basic architectural tenet of utility-scale solar — and the $3 billion business of trackers and racking. By eliminating what it sees as "a tremendous amount of unnecessary materials and risks,” Erthos claims it can build a solar power plant in half the time on one-third of the land, all while using 70 percent less cable and trenching.

Erthos contends that its design requires "only light civil engineering,” with a system that can be used in different topographies with little need to grade, making it simpler to install than other systems.

Industrial Sun said that land constraints would have prevented the new project’s site from being developed with conventional solar technologies, which typically require five to 10 acres of land per megawatt of capacity. Erthos claims that its mounting scheme requires less than 2.5 acres per megawatt.

A 20% reduction in utility solar cost?

While solar is the cheapest source of new energy generation, the price of installations is no longer falling. From 2010 to 2021, the levelized cost of installing utility-scale solar fell 88% thanks to economies of scale, better technology and supply-chain improvements, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency. But in the last couple of years, supply-chain issues have halted these price declines globally, and tariffs have added costs in the U.S. Meanwhile, global commodities such as steel, aluminum and glass, which are increasing in price, now account for more of the cost of a solar panel. As a result, solar contract pricing is now rising in the U.S.

Erthos is bringing installation costs down by eliminating racking, which in the U.S. currently accounts for about $0.15 per watt for a 100-megawatt system, according to a recent report from the Solar Energy Industries Association and Wood Mackenzie Power & Renewables.

Ion Yadigaroglu of Capricorn Investment Group, which led Erthos’ financing round earlier this year, told Canary Media in March that he believes the company can lower large-scale solar installation costs by 20 percent by eliminating steel racking with its new structural approach.

A cost reduction of 20 percent in a mature industrial commodity market like solar is unheard of. If the Erthos approach is viable and financeable, it could be the step change the solar industry needs to maintain its torrid growth and continue replacing fossil fuel generation.

If you enjoyed this story, help us produce more like it. Donate to support Canary Media!

(th)

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#630 2022-12-09 16:19:58

kbd512
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Average land price in Texas was $3,725 per acre, as of 2021, so $931,250 for the 250 acres that this farm requires, which seems pretty reasonable, especially if they don't destroy the land by grading it and installing service roads.  The panels themselves would cost $15,000,000.  No idea what the power conversion equipment costs, but a million dollars will cover some pretty serious power transformers.  The labor to emplace the panels is unskilled, beyond not dropping any panels, so that's good.  Electrical contract work is skilled labor, with each electrician making $60K to $100K per year.  The power cabling to connect the panels will be pricey, because it has to be Copper.  I've no idea what's required in the way of control electronics, but should be limited to on-panel inverters or, hopefully, a combination inverter and transformer to reduce cost.  I rate this as better than some other projects, but still more of the same.  It'll require another complete backup power plant for this setup to function at all.

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#631 2022-12-09 16:38:34

tahanson43206
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

For kbd512 re #630

Thanks for the update from Texas! 

A question I have (because not yet having had time to investigate the project more fully) is how/if the developers are planning to keep the panels free of debris. Even the Earth has dust in the air, and (at least in the area where I live) that dust tends to settle out everywhere it can find a resting place out of the wind.

Regarding your observation about backup .... (not questioning your point at all) .... I wonder if the builder/funder is thinking of trying to go for the spot market, in order to turn that investment into a return.

(th)

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#632 2022-12-09 19:07:01

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Here is an array built at the Jarvis tool company in Rochester NH. that has just a few panels placed onto the system that holds them in place.

R.669d96617d2ca338ef1d8f7410c009d5?rik=bFOTykvhg4W3WA&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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#633 2022-12-23 00:16:56

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

What are ‘brightfields?’ These projects are turning pollution-creating ‘brownfields’ into solar farms

The United States is a global leader in technology and innovation, but it didn’t always prioritize environmentally friendly industries. Now, old polluted sites from the economy of the past, called brownfields, are being turned into brightfields, high-value sources of clean and cheap power.

The U.S. is littered with close to half a million brownfields, like landfills or closed coal plants, that are dirty and ripe for redevelopment. Luckily, many can be easily turned into brightfields — new solar farms atop these old sites.

Because many of these former industrial sites are already connected to our grid and are unshaded, they make excellent locations for new solar farms.

There are close to 500 projects across the country where brownfields have already been turned into brightfields, according to RMI, which has studied the future of brightfields.

RMI has also reported that the U.S. has about 190,000 potential sites for new brightfields, 10,000 of which are inactive landfills, representing an impressive amount of potential clean and cheap energy.

If these closed landfills alone were repurposed, we could power almost 8 million homes in the U.S. with clean energy.

While the trend of repurposing brownfields is catching on, there’s still a lot of work to be done. Right now, just three states, led by Massachusetts, have completed more than half of all brightfield projects.

But because of the newly passed Inflation Reduction Act, there are now tax credits available to repurpose brownfields into brightfields, with extra benefits if the brownfield is in a low-income area. For some sites, developers could get a 70% tax credit when developing brightfields.

It will also soon be easier to turn polluted sites into brightfields thanks to a brightfield project accelerator by Kansas State University and RMI that provides resources and technical assistance to groups revitalizing brownfields.

Prioritizing projects that produce cheap and clean energy for all Americans, especially those who have lived near old, polluted industrial sites, can help lead us to a brighter future.

“We’re turning the negative of this landfill into a positive,” says Efrem Jernigan, the president of South Union CDC, a community development nonprofit. Jernigan also lives near a developing brightfield site in Texas. “It should make the community a place of sunshine.”

https://rmi.org/time-for-communities-to … ownfields/

https://rmi.org/insight/the-future-of-l … is-bright/

This was attempted in the hometown but somehow it lost when getting approvals to deploy across to adjoining dump areas.

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#634 2023-03-18 08:58:26

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Had 6 pages of topics returned with recycling solar panels contained and chose this as the best fit.

As millions of solar panels age out, recyclers hope to cash in

In Odessa, Texas, workers at a startup called SolarCycle unload trucks carrying end-of-life photovoltaic panels freshly picked from commercial solar farms across the United States. They separate the panels from the aluminum frames and electrical boxes, then feed them into machines that detach their glass from the laminated materials that have helped generate electricity from sunlight for about a quarter of a century.

Next, the panels are ground, shredded, and subjected to a patented process that extracts the valuable materials — mostly silver, copper, and crystalline silicon. Those components will be sold, as will the lower-value aluminum and glass, which may even end up in the next generation of solar panels.

This process offers a glimpse of what could happen to an expected surge of retired solar panels that will stream from an industry that represents the fastest-growing source of energy in the U.S. Today, roughly 90 percent of panels in the U.S. that have lost their efficiency due to age, or that are defective, end up in landfills because that option costs a fraction of recycling them.

But recycling advocates in the U.S. say increased reuse of valuable materials, like silver and copper, would help boost the circular economy, in which waste and pollution are reduced by constantly reusing materials. According to a 2021 report by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), recycling PV panels could also cut the risk of landfills leaking toxins into the environment; increase the stability of a supply chain that is largely dependent on imports from Southeast Asia; lower the cost of raw materials to solar and other types of manufacturers; and expand market opportunities for U.S. recyclers.

Of course, reusing degraded but still-functional panels is an even better option. Millions of these panels now end up in developing nations, while others are reused closer to home. For example, SolarCycle is building a power plant for its Texas factory that will use refurbished modules.

The prospect of a future glut of expired panels is prompting efforts by a handful of solar recyclers to address a mismatch between the current buildup of renewable energy capacity by utilities, cities, and private companies — millions of panels are installed globally every year — and a shortage of facilities that can handle this material safely when it reaches the end of its useful life, in about 25 to 30 years.

Solar capacity across all segments in the U.S. is expected to rise by an average of 21 percent a year from 2023 to 2027, according to the latest quarterly report from the Solar Energy Industries Association and the consulting firm Wood Mackenzie. The expected increase will be helped by the landmark Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 which, among other supports for renewable energy, will provide a 30 percent tax credit for residential solar installations.

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#635 2023-03-18 09:04:59

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

More  of the article

The area covered by solar panels that were installed in the U.S. as of 2021 and are due to retire by 2030 would cover about 3,000 American football fields, according to an NREL estimate. “It’s a good bit of waste,” said Taylor Curtis, a legal and regulatory analyst at the lab. But the industry’s recycling rate, at less than 10 percent, lags far behind the upbeat forecasts for the industry’s growth.

Jesse Simons, a co-founder of SolarCycle, which employs about 30 people and began operations last December, said solid waste landfills typically charge $1 to $2 to accept a solar panel, rising to around $5 if the material is deemed hazardous waste. By contrast, his company charges $18 per panel. Clients are willing to pay that rate because they may be unable to find a landfill licensed to accept hazardous waste and assume legal liability for it, and because they want to minimize the environmental impact of their old panels, said Simons, a former Sierra Club executive.

SolarCycle provides its clients with an environmental analysis that shows the benefits of panel recycling. For example, recycling aluminum uses 95 percent less energy than making virgin aluminum, which bears the costs of mining the raw material, bauxite, and then transporting and refining it.

The company estimates that recycling each panel avoids the emissions of 97 pounds of CO2; the figure rises to more than 1.5 tons of CO2 if a panel is reused. Under a proposed Securities and Exchange Commission rule, publicly held companies will be required to disclose climate-related risks that are likely to have a material impact on their business, including their greenhouse gas emissions.

Stripped from solar panels at the SolarCycle plant, aluminum is sold at a nearby metal yard. Glass is currently sold for just a few cents per panel for reuse in basic products like bottles, but Simons hopes he will eventually have enough of it to sell for a higher price to a manufacturer of new solar panel sheets.

Crystalline silicon, used as a base material in solar cells, is also worth recovering, he said. Although it must be refined for use in future panels, its use avoids the environmental impacts of mining and processing new silicon.

SolarCycle is one of only five companies in the U.S. listed by the SEIA as capable of providing recycling services. The industry remains in its infancy and is still figuring out how to make money from recovering and then selling panel components, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. “Elements of this recycling process can be found in the United States, but it is not yet happening on a large scale,“ the EPA said in an overview of the industry.

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#636 2023-03-18 09:05:54

SpaceNut
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

In 2016, the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) forecast that by the early 2030s, the global quantity of decommissioned PV panels will equal some 4 percent of the number of installed panels. By the 2050s, the volume of solar panel waste will rise to at least 5 million metric tons a year, the agency said. China, the world’s biggest producer of solar energy, is expected to have retired a cumulative total of at least 13.5 million metric tons of panels by 2050, by far the largest quantity among major solar-producing nations and nearly twice the volume the U.S. will retire by that time, according to the IRENA report.

The raw materials technically recoverable from PV panels globally could cumulatively be worth $450 million (in 2016 terms) by 2030, the report found, about equal to the cost of raw materials needed to produce some 60 million new panels, or 18 gigawatts of power-generation capacity. By 2050, the report said, recoverable value could cumulatively exceed $15 billion.

For now, though, solar recyclers face significant economic, technological, and regulatory challenges. Part of the problem, says NREL’s Curtis, is a lack of data on panel recycling rates, which hinders potential policy responses that might provide more incentives for solar-farm operators to recycle end-of-life panels rather than dump them.

Another problem is that the Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure — an EPA-approved method used to determine whether a product or material contains hazardous elements that could leach into the environment — is known to be faulty. Consequently, some solar farm owners end up “over-managing” their panels as hazardous without making a formal hazardous-waste determination, Curtis said. They end up paying more to dispose of them in landfills permitted to handle hazardous waste or to recycle them.

The International Energy Agency assessed whether solar panels that contain lead, cadmium, and selenium would impact human health if dumped in either hazardous-waste or municipal landfills and determined the risk was low. Still, the agency said in a 2020 report, its findings did not constitute an endorsement of landfilling: Recycling, it stated, would “further mitigate” environmental concerns.

NREL is currently studying an alternative process for determining whether or not panels are hazardous. “We need to figure that out because it is definitely impacting the liability and the cost to make recycling more competitive,” Curtis said.

Despite these uncertainties, four states recently enacted laws addressing PV module recycling. California, which has the most solar installations, allows panels to be dumped in landfills, but only after they have been verified as non-hazardous by a designated laboratory, which can cost upwards of $1,500. As of July 2022, California had only one recycling plant that accepted solar panels.

In Washington State, a law designed to provide an environmentally sound way to recycle PV panels is due to be implemented in July of 2025; New Jersey officials expect to issue a report on managing PV waste this spring; and North Carolina has directed state environmental officials to study the decommissioning of utility scale solar projects. (North Carolina currently requires solar panels to be disposed of as hazardous waste if they contain heavy metals like silver or — in the case of older panels — hexavalent chromium, lead, cadmium, and arsenic.)

In the European Union, end-of-life photovoltaic panels have, since 2012, been treated as electronic waste under the EU’s waste electrical and electronic equipment directive, known as WEEE. The directive requires all member states to comply with minimum standards, but the actual rate of e-waste recycling varies from nation to nation, said Marius Mordal Bakke, senior analyst for solar supplier research at Rystad Energy, a research firm headquartered in Oslo, Norway. Despite this law, the EU’s PV recycling rate is no better than the U.S. rate — around 10 percent — largely because of the difficulty of extracting valuable materials from panels, Bakke said.

But he predicted that recycling will become more prevalent when the number of end-of-life panels rises to the point where it presents a business opportunity, providing recyclers with valuable materials they can sell. Governments can help speed that transition, he added, by banning the disposal of PV panels in landfills and providing incentives such as tax breaks to anyone who uses solar panels.

“At some point in the future, you are going to see enough panels being decommissioned that you kind of have to start recycling,” Bakke said. “It will become profitable by itself regardless of commodity prices.”

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#637 2023-04-14 12:25:29

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,225

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

There is a concept to take the Sun's energy from satellites and perhaps beam it to Earth by microwave or other methods, Space-based solar power (SBSP, SSP) is the concept of collecting solar power in outer space by solar power satellites (SPS) and distributing it to Earth.

Solar power works on Space stations and Satellites, you can go to a place always solar noon in space and full sun, the satellite could be illuminated over 99% of the time you could also transmit laser power and Earth-based rectenna would likely consist of many short dipole antennas connected via diodes, Solar power has been used on Rover, Opportunity has the record for marathon race,  26.2 miles or 42.16 km on Mars.

China's first Mars landed clean with white and black colors and with dust is now as red as Mars, sands and dusts red planet's surface might have killed the Rover.

Space-Based Solar Power: Folly Or Stroke Of Genius?
https://hackaday.com/2022/08/24/space-b … of-genius/

Germany Shuts Down its Three Remaining Nuclear Plants
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 … ants-video
last 3 nuclear power plants will be shut down.

A Mexican version of the Unabomber, in year 2011 in Mexico a group or person calling itself Individualists Tending to the Wild perpetrated an attack with a bomb at the Monterrey Institute of Technology and Higher Education, State of Mexico Campus, intended for the coordinator of its Business Development Center and Technology Transfer. The attack was accompanied by the publication of a manifesto criticizing nanotechnology and computer science.


Why object to Fusion or Thorium study it would seem Neo-Luddism or new Luddism is a philosophy opposing many forms of modern technology.

However Solar can be used as backup and does have some benefit and advantage.

New Osceola community requires solar systems on rooftops
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/busines … story.html

USDA grants $2M for renewable energy in former Bennett Freeze
https://www.knau.org/knau-and-arizona-n … ett-freeze

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-04-14 13:08:30)

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#638 2023-05-26 08:55:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,225

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Solar power due to overtake oil production investment for first time in 2023

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy … 023-05-25/

Still no response from the China Rover

Dust seems to have killed the Chinese mission

https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 5838500866

a more recent photo from one of NASA / JPL orbiters MRO/HiRISE  maybe if I recall correct, showed it almost the same color as the Mars sands
Chinese media they have never been able to revive the Rover from hibernation

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-26 09:02:34)

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#639 2023-05-26 20:06:22

SpaceNut
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#640 2023-07-06 21:57:13

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,133

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

‘Miracle material’ smashes solar panel efficiency threshold

Two separate studies published on Thursday demonstrated how the material perovskite could push the power conversion efficiency rate of photovoltaic (PV) solar cells above 30 per cent – beyond the theoretical limit of 29 per cent for traditional silicon (PV) solar cells

Solar panels could be about to get much better at capturing sunlight


This limit could, in theory, be higher if another material that generates electricity from light in a different frequency range is stacked on top of the silicon layer. Perovskite, a titanium and calcium crystal, is well suited to this because it is better at absorbing light closer to the infrared spectrum, but making it efficient has proven difficult. This is because of wayward electrons that are reabsorbed into the crystal before they can be turned into current.

This layering is producing cells that achieve greater than 32%

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#641 2023-07-07 00:59:18

kbd512
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

SpaceNut,

Has anyone adequately resolved the issue with rapid degradation of perovskites?

That was the fundamental issue that prevented perovskites from being anything more than a scientific curiosity.  If they're still becoming non-functional upon exposure to sunlight, inside of a year or so, then however much potential they might have is overshadowed by their fatal flaw.

The combination of both performance improvement over standard Silicon and drastically improved longevity must be demonstrated by a single product, in order for the discovery to be transformed into something that's commercially viable.

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#642 2023-08-05 15:06:11

SpaceNut
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#643 2023-08-05 15:54:32

kbd512
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Posts: 7,150

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

SpaceNut,

Their photovoltaic panel recycling business has to be subsidized by their business of selling off undamaged panels to other buyers.  This is not the least bit sustainable.  They have a labor-intensive process of dismantling the panels.  The cover glass on the panel is used for sandblasting, so it's never going to be used to make new solar panels.  The Silicon requires many further processing steps to be used for anything.  The Copper, Silver, and Aluminum are all recyclable, but that's about it.

This is what the end result of insanity looks like.  Large piles of modestly valuable metals, some toxic waste, and no practical possibility of ever turning the old photovoltaic panel into new photovoltaic panels.  Multiple government studies show 78 million tons of solar panel waste by 2035, not 2050.  Most of it is going straight to the landfills, because there's no law against "green energy" machines containing toxic heavy metals from ending up in landfills.

Who could have ever guessed that our "green energy" machines would be exempt from EPA regulations?

You can't throw Lead-acid batteries in a landfill, but photovoltaic panels containing Arsenic, Gallium, and Lead solder aren't problematic at all, are they?

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#644 2023-08-05 15:58:51

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,133

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

I have seen this in the past and by far more hazardous long ago before people got a bit more education as to what these chemicals would do. Many things that should not be thrown into them are still being dumped...

I am not sure but the link Atom active topics feed at the bottom of the forum main page should not open the log.

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#645 2023-08-06 10:52:42

kbd512
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Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

SpaceNut,

There's an overriding point here.  The green energy machines which require more input energy and materials also generate more waste, and also more toxic waste.  Sooner or later, it has to be dealt with in a way that doesn't destroy the habitability of the places where people live.  If you dump a bunch of heavy metals and Arsenic into the drinking water supply, that water supply quickly becomes unusable.

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#646 2023-08-10 17:22:08

tahanson43206
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Posts: 15,512

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

This post is offered in memory of Louis, who spoke often of solar power.


The article is about collecting solar power on Earth, but the principle at work would do as well on Mars.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … df04&ei=43

Popular Mechanics
Floating Solar Panels Near the Equator Could Create Unlimited Energy
Story by Darren Orf •


Although many people know about wind’s offshore potential, the energy-producing power of offshore solar could be just as impactful.
A new study from scientists at the Australian National University created a global atlas of where such solar installations could be immensely beneficial—areas with calm weather and waters.

By the study’s estimates, the area around Indonesia alone could produce 35,000 terawatt-hours (TWh) of solar energy a year, which more than the globe’s current annual energy production.
The world needs solar power, and it needs it as fast as possible.

Although society is already undergoing the greatest energy transfer in human history, more needs to be done to stave off the worst outcomes of climate change. Two of the biggest tools in our decarbonization toolbox are wind and solar power—but while offshore wind energy gets a lot of attention (and rightfully so), there is such a thing as offshore solar as well. And it could be a game changer for countries near the equator.

A new study conducted by scientists at Australian National University created a heatmap atlas for offshore solar, detailing where calm seas and mild winds around the globe coalesce to create environments perfect for hosting offshore solar installations. The results showed that areas near the equator, especially West Africa near Nigeria and Indonesia, were perfect candidates. These waters, if filled with solar panels, could create a tremendous amount of energy—so much, in fact, that the authors describe it as “unlimited.”

“Our new research shows offshore solar in Indonesia alone could generate about 35,000 terawatt-hours (TWh) of solar energy a year, which is similar to current global electricity production (30,000TWh per year),” the authors write in an article posted on The Conversation. “Their tropical location in the so-called “doldrum” latitudes also means wind resources are poor. Fortunately, these countries—and their neighbors—can harvest effectively unlimited energy from solar panels floating on calm equatorial seas.”

Heatmap for floating solar panels. Red areas are best followed by yellow, green, and dark blue. The grey lines are indicative of tropic storm tracks.
© Blakers / Silalahi

The study finds that areas with waves that never reach higher than 20 feet and winds that never exceed 10 miles per hour could vastly benefit from offshore solar, as installations wouldn’t need to be hardened against storms. In Indonesia’s case, the study found that the some areas of the archipelago haven’t experienced any more turbulent conditions for more than 40 years. Indonesia also has great potential for pumped hydro energy storage, so the lights can still stay on when the Sun isn’t shining.

The other benefit is that both of these regions are densely populated, so locating sprawling solar installations out in the sea could be a win-win. Of course, protecting the fragile marine environments is a concern that must be taken seriously when building these installations, but the researchers estimate that Indonesia’s maritime boundary is 200 times greater than what its energy needs require, so it would have a relatively low impact.

Floating solar arrays do come with some pros and cons. One benefit is that these systems can be upwards of 15 percent more efficient than their on-land counterparts due to the cooling effect of water, according to the Environmental and Energy Study Institute. But offshore solar also has drawbacks—primarily maintenance challenges from salt corrosion and marine fouling.

In addition, outside this beneficial equatorial zone (around 5 to 12 degrees latitude from the equator), seas are much more tempestuous and often affected by tropical storms. This makes such solar installation difficult, though not impossible. The U.S., for example, just turned on its largest floating solar this past June. Countries such as China, Korea, and India also already have large floating solar arrays, and companies are working to design arrays that can withstand harsher aquatic latitudes.

To fight climate change, we need to explore every clean energy option possible—and that includes considering the potential of our oceans, ponds, and everything in between.

(th)

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#647 2023-08-10 19:59:59

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 15,512

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

Upon re-reading Post #646, it crossed my mind that the Atlantic  has at least one similar region of limited wind... early sailors encountered the doldrums in the Sargasso Sea when they steered unwittingly into it.

However, the wind patterns may not be calm all year.

Per Google:

About 14,700 results (0.47 seconds)

Maritime Heritage - Sargasso Sea Commission
Sargasso Sea Commission
http://www.sargassoseacommission.org › ...
sargasso sea doldrums from www.sargassoseacommission.org
Maritime Heritage 'The Sargasso Sea is. ... a place of mystery (The Bermuda Triangle), frustrating challenges (the 'doldrums' becalming sailors for weeks), ...
People also ask
Is the Sargasso Sea in the doldrums?
Why did sailors fear the Sargasso Sea?
Do ships travel through the Sargasso Sea?
Can you swim in the Sargasso Sea?
Feedback

(th)

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#648 2023-09-17 10:14:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,133

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#649 2023-11-25 09:50:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,133

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

What is a Solar Carport? Everything You Need to Know

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Solar Parking Lots Are a Win-Win Energy Idea. Why Aren't They the Norm?

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The pros and cons of rooftop solar are worth understanding — decide if it’s right for you

Solar panels have been shown to increase the value of your home. Studies have found that homes with solar panels can sell for about 4.1% more than homes without solar panels.

And for every dollar a homeowner saves on energy bills thanks to their solar panels, the value of their house increases by about $20. This means that if your panels save you $600 every year in energy costs, it would increase the value of your home by more than $12,000.

The using of open land or water ways is the key...

These remarkable floating solar panels solve one of the biggest problems with sun-based energy — here’s how they work

video of cells on water

update
Here's How Many Solar Panels You'll Need to Charge Your EV

How many solar panels will I need to charge just my EV?
First, consider how much you typically drive in a day. Put simply, the more you drive, the more wattage you're likely to need in panels.

Here's the steps to figuring out how your average daily energy needs to power an EV.

Step 1. Determine how many kilowatt-hours your EV uses per mile. The EPA and US Department of Energy's fueleconomy.gov site lists the estimated efficiency of all electric cars in kWh per 100 miles; simply divide by 100 for a per-mile estimate.

Step 2. Multiply your EV's kWh/mi by the number of miles you anticipate you drive on an average day. (You can get your average daily miles by observing your driving habits for a few days or by dividing your annual observed mileage by 365). This gets you the total number of kilowatt-hours you'll need to produce to power your daily driving.

Step 3. You can then divide the EVs needed kilowatt-hours by the number of peak sun hours you can expect to receive at your location each day.

Step 4. The final figure should give you the size of your ideal EV-charging solar array in kilowatts.

Step 5. To calculate the number of panels you'll need, the wattage of the solar panel comes into play. The most efficient solar panel wattage can range from 370 to 465 watts. After you choose your best solar panel brand, convert the panel wattage of the panel to kilowatts by dividing by 1,000.

Step 6. Final math is to divide the EV kWh requirements by the solar panel efficiency in kWh to get the number of panels needed to charge the EV.

The formula:
kWh/mi for your EV x average miles driven in a day = total kWh production for the EV

Total kWh production needed for EV / local peak sun hours = size of ideal solar system (in kW)

Convert the solar panel wattage of the brand of choice to kilowatts by dividing by 1,000.

EV production needed (in kWh per day) / panel efficiency (in kWh) = number of solar panels needed

Example math:
Take the example of the Hyundai Ioniq 6, the most energy efficient electric sedan on the road today:

Step 1. According to fueleconomy.gov, it averages 24 kWh/100 mi or 0.24 kWh/mi.

Step 2. We'll also use the EPA's average mileage estimate of 15,000 annual miles, which works out to around 41 miles per day.

Step 3. 0.24 kWh/mi x 41 miles = 9.86 kWh daily power EV usage

Step 4. 9.86 kWh / 4 peak sun hours = 2.4 kW  (This is how much solar energy in kW you will need to charge your EV).

Step 5. We will use a solar panel wattage of 410W, such as the Q.PEAK Duo Black from Qcells, to calculate the number of panels needed for the Hyundai Ioniq 6. Convert the 410W to kilowatts by dividing by 1,000 (0.41 kW).

Step 6. EV production needed to charge the Hyundai Ioniq 6 (in kWh per day) / energy needed per Q.PEAK Qcells solar panel) = number of solar panels needed. 2.4 kW / 0.41 kW = 5.85 solar panels

In this example, six Qcells solar panels are needed to accommodate the energy needs of the Hyundai Ioniq 6 with average driving habits. Six Qcells solar panels don't accommodate the rest of the home's energy consumption.

Meanwhile, at the other extreme, dropping the Ford F-150 Lightning's 48 kWh/100 mi into the same formula yields a daily energy use of 19.68 kWh and a 4.9 kW solar requirement, doubling the Qcells solar panels needed to 12 panels.

If that's too much math, Fishman simply recommends putting around  eight to 12 solar modules on a canopy that you can use as a solar carport.

"It's about 2.5 kilowatts that you need for a canopy. You might go a little more, but that's all you need," Fishman said.

We've seen others in the industry put the figure at closer to 3 kW, but if you're unsure, you can run through all the math for your situation.

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#650 2023-11-25 13:34:02

Steve Stewart
Member
From: Kansas (USA)
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 160
Website

Re: Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.

(Nice post SpaceNut). Elon Musk was on the Joe Rogan show recently. (It was on Halloween, which is why Joe Rogan is wearing a wig). On the show Elon Musk mentioned that an area of solar panels, 100 miles by 100 miles, would provide enough energy to power all of the United States. Here is a 1 minute video clip from the show.

Joe Rogan and Elon Musk discuss about solar panels ... - TikTok

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