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#426 2019-06-27 20:11:56

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

hsvxcsxqf0mvexud0tox.png

The Lightyear One 'Solar Car' Is Amazing But Isn't Quite What You Think It Is

https://electrek.co/2019/06/25/lightyea … car-range/

Some people will buy anything flashy..

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#427 2019-07-01 18:11:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Reasons for Alaska-is-Hot-and-on-Fire

Record and near-record heat swept the Last Frontier over the weekend, with stations across the state’s interior recording daily highs of close to 90 degrees Fahrenheit on Saturday. On Sunday, temperatures rose to 92 degrees in Northway near the state’s Yukon border, smashing the all-time heat record set in 1942. Temperatures in Anchorage peaked at a comparably balmy 82, which still marked the capital city’s hottest day in three years.

Ouch RobertDyck had said that he was seeing elevated temperatures as well....

Yet there is a report of snow and ice falling in Guadalajara digs out from more than 4 feet of hail

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#428 2019-07-05 13:02:34

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

A simple solution I do not think is possible to the global warming effects but Can Planting Trees Solve Climate Change?
where should we be planting them..

mollweide_cycle.gif

methane releases
burn_map-16.gif

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#429 2019-07-05 21:16:29

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,024

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Planting trees certainly doesn't hurt.  It's pretty much always a good idea to have more of them.

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#430 2019-07-06 15:13:19

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Here is the latest therory in ICE melt in that magnetic materials are to blame.. So somehow we are creating dust particles that are magnetic which seem to only be landing on the ICE of the artics and antartica.....carbon soot which seem more likely....

https://www.wired.com/story/magnetic-ma … ice-melts/

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#431 2019-07-06 17:25:15

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,024

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

SpaceNut,

Before there were ever any humans to blame everything on, how do you suppose the world went through multiple ice ages and warm periods?

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#432 2019-07-14 19:00:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Something to make note of
extra_large-1559303305-cover-image.jpg

Both poles are walking but at different rates so that means that the center of the earth is above the currie temperature at which he magnetic field breaks down.

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#433 2019-08-28 16:26:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

The viking naming of the new world explorations seem to be going the other way with the old joke of ice land being snow covered while Greenland was free of it with meadows and fields of green...Seems they might have been seeing the future states of these places.
The rapid decrease of the ice means sea water rising and lots of storms due to the fresh water seeding the clouds.

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#434 2019-08-31 16:45:39

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Oldfart1939 wrote:

In response to the previous post--it is really beyond NASA's mission statement to be monitoring Earth's climate; this is more in the purview of NOAA. The "climate change" school of thought has been based on incomplete and faulty computer modelling, which ignores such features as sunspot activity and slight changes in Earth's orbital inclination. Also ignores effects of cosmic ray background intensity on cloud formation. Latest NASA statements indicate Earth is entering a period of Global Cooling, similar to the Maunder Minimum of late 1600's.

I think that Nasa gets used to help in the designs of satelites and launching for several groups simular to the many telescopes that are being used in orbit for science.

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#435 2019-09-01 21:17:18

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/r … index.html
Scientists and designers are proposing radical ways to 'refreeze' the Arctic

http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F190827114428-iceberg-submarine-1.jpg

iceberg-making submarines.

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#436 2019-09-01 22:23:48

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,024

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

SpaceNut,

Merely because I like the idea of ships, or submarines in this case, making icebergs- the bane of ocean going vessels since before the Titanic, I'm willing to throw a few billion of our tax dollars at this particular idea just to see what happens.

What could possibly go wrong? smile

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#437 2019-09-02 21:48:05

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,024

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

For those who think Americans can all go back to living like we did in 1905 and somehow prevent global warming from reaching 1.5C:

China’s power industry calls for hundreds of new coal power plants by 2030

In its review of the government’s five-year-plan, China Electricity Council (CEC) – the influential industry body representing China’s power industry – recommended adopting a ‘cap’ for coal power capacity by 2030 — but the 1300GW limit proposed is 290GW higher than current capacity. The target is for the country’s coal-fired capacity to continue to grow until peaking in 2030.

The cap would enable China to build 2 large coal power stations a month for the next 12 years, and grow the country’s capacity by an amount nearly twice the size of Europe’s total coal capacity.

If this happens it could single-handedly end any chance of keeping global warming below 1.5C, and also conflicts with the 2C target, with even a conservative analysis of the goal requiring that China cut its coal capacity by roughly 200GW by 2030.

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#438 2019-09-03 00:16:20

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 189

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

China is building new coal burning plants with supercritical boilers.  These have efficiency of 45% and are replacing older units with efficiency less than 30%.  The Chinese economy is built on the premise of manufacturing of bulk commodity grade products at a lower price than the rest of the world; something that requires a lot of cheap electricity.  The economy is therefore intolerant of high electricity prices.

In recent years, Chinese coal mines have been closing because coal prices have been too low for them to remain profitable.  Higher labour costs and depletion are eating away at the profitability of the industry.

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2016/06/20/c … s-problem/

They are mining as much coal as the rest of the world combined, but have only 13% of global reserves.  Somethings got to give.  I seriously believe that the only reason the Chinese are bothering to build new coal burning power plants, is that they cannot expand their nuclear power capacity rapidly enough.  I think they understand the net energy problem all too well and are doing everything they can to move away from a fossil fuel energy base.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-09-03 00:22:38)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#439 2019-09-03 17:39:02

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Its not the coal that really is the issue as much as the soot that floats to the northern ice packs which change the level of reflectiveness to one of heat obsorbtion that is causing the worlds ice to melt. The CO2 is an effect that is measured and not the only cause for the temperature rises.

Stability of Earth's climate depends on Amazonia

A forest that is burning
tropical-rainfall-measuring-mission-trmm-amazon-basin-2005-drought-hg.jpg

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#440 2019-09-04 19:50:09

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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#441 2019-09-07 16:25:57

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,024

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Calliban,

The "something that's got to give" that you referenced are the energy supplies that the Chinese are planning to extract from Africa.  You don't think they're in Africa because they love going on Safari, do you?

Eventually, the Chinese will start buying coal from the US and other countries, especially if we're not using it.  In case anyone is naive enough to think otherwise, if the Chinese must do so, they'll start wars to obtain the energy they require.

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#442 2019-10-02 17:55:00

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

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#443 2019-10-20 17:58:50

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

The ice is still melting and we may have an answer all that is required is to learn how to read the history.
Tale of 2 climate crises gives clues to the present

anthropocene-climate-warming-chart-hg.jpg

greenhouse gases (CO2, SO2, N2O) linked to human activities and fossil fuel burning leads to rapid warming and ocean acidification

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#444 2019-11-05 18:59:48

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

The warning signs have been blinking for a while now and we have been ignoring them... Climate emergency study

More than 11,000 scientists issue fresh warning: Earth faces a climate emergency
A climate emergency declaration or climate emergency plan, declaring a state of climate emergency, has been issued since 2016 by some countries and other administrations to set priority and take action about climate change. Per ClimateEmergencyDeclaration.org as of 19 October 2019, there are 1,143 jurisdictions and local governments who have posted a Climate Emergency Declaration.

Scientists have a moral obligation to clearly warn humanity of any catastrophic threat and to “tell it like it is.” On the basis of this obligation and the graphical indicators presented below, we declare, with more than 11,000 scientist signatories from around the world, clearly and unequivocally that planet Earth is facing a climate emergency.

Amid record-setting temperatures worldwide and predictions by experts that this year will be among the hottest humanity has ever seen, researchers behind a new study say a rapid global effort to plant billions of trees and the restoration of forests would be the "most effective" strategy for battling the planetary climate emergency.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/ … re-climate


US states that are committed to making a difference
https://www.usclimatealliance.org/

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#445 2019-11-15 20:51:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

80 degree plus temperatures at Key west for 244 days and we are now in winter, so when will it cool down...

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#446 2019-11-24 09:44:08

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

The answer to climate change is in the sensing of what is happening above and below ground for earths many moving and changing components to the rise in temperature whether its got a cycle or not.

Telescopes and satellites combine to map entire planet's ground movement

earth-system-various-states-hg.jpg

The "pairing satellite images with an existing global network of radio telescopes can be used to paint a previously unseen whole-of-planet picture of the geological processes that shape the Earth's crust." "The height of the Earth's surface is constantly changed by geological forces like earthquakes and the effects of human activities, such as mining or ground water extraction," "By harnessing the power of these radio telescopes, we hope to shed new light on the processes that shape the Earth's crust including a complete, consistent assessment of the contribution of land displacements to relative sea-level rise,"

The carbon is to blame for global warming but its got another twist to the pollutant in Renewables could cut power generation health impact by 80 percent

Scientists and environmental groups have long advocated a switch to low-carbon power to cap the rise in global temperature to two degrees Celsius (3.6 Farenheit), as stipulated in the Paris climate treaty. Emissions from power generation account for around 40 percent of all energy-related carbon pollution, and demand for energy is predicted to rise globally for years to come. The World Health Organization estimates 4.2 million people die prematurely each year due to air pollution, much of which comes from the burning of fossil fuels for energy.
Decarbonisation pathways the team studied showed significant health benefits, but the renewables-led approach showed by far the biggest health upside. "Given the growing world population with a hunger for both electricity and for food, pressures on the land and food systems will increase, too."
The United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in August released a landmark assessment of how land can both ease and contribute to the climate emergency.
It warned of looming tough choices, and a radical reduction in pastureland for livestock if the more ambitious 1.5-C Paris temperature benchmark is to be met.

- Biofuel vs solar -

The study also looked at the environmental and ecological impact of green energy generation heading towards mid-century.
While bioenergy -- the harvesting and burning of CO2-absorbing crops for electricity -- has the potential to be low-emission, the team found such schemes would have significant environmental consequences.
In fact, measured per kilowatt-hour, the team found that bioenergy required roughly 100 times the amount of land needed to harvest the same energy from solar panels.

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#447 2019-11-24 14:20:08

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,722
Website

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

I do remember in the late 1950's and through the 1960's the predominant scientific consensus was Earth should be headed into the next ice age glaciation.  This was based upon the Milankovitch orbital cycles theory,  which is not very predictive except in the sense that "this is what happened before".  There's no fundamental cause-and-effect to it excepting the northern hemisphere insolation levels,  which geography is where the bulk of Earth's landmasses currently are.  (And that changes over geologic time.) 

It's a pretty good (but not perfect) correlation of past glaciations for the last 3-4 million years.  Which is short enough that continental drift does not play a huge role,  but northern hemisphere land plants do.  And that "theory" did (and still does) say that we should be heading into another glaciation.  We are so obviously not.  Which immediately suggests something "fundamental" has changed between current times and the past 3-4 million years. 

That something is us and our pollutants.  Which might precede us and our widespread fossil fuel use dating back 3-4 hundred years.  Agriculture may actually have started this 10 millennia ago.  Or not.  Who knows? 

And what difference does THAT make anyway?  Point is,  something is different,  and that difference is us,  our domination over the planet,  and all the pollution we emit. NOTHING ELSE is different.  THAT is quite suggestive. 

As for natural climate cycles,  yes they occur and there are many of them.  The difference between the medieval warm period and the so-called "little ice age" is SMALL CHANGE compared to the difference between the Pleistocene glacials and interglacials.  Where we have been the last 10 millennia since the end of the Pleistocene is a sort of quasi-stable intermediate climate between the more extreme glaciations and warm periods of the previous 3-4 million years.  That kinda puts the BS label on claims that what we are seeing is another natural cycle,  doesn't it?

If what I suggest is true,  that we have been in a quasi-stable place these last 10 millennia,  then it seems logical to ask what might tip us off the quasi-stable place,  and onto a path toward either full glaciation or full meltdown.  It might not take very much to do that!!!  The geological record says unequivocally that sea level changes between those two states are +350 feet to -480 feet,  relative to current sea level.  Fossil beaches,  both above,  and below,  current sea level say that.  Not computer models.  The rocks themselves!

I say our current climate is quasi-stable,  because it is not a common occurrence in the geological record.  We're usually much hotter (with much higher sea levels) or much colder (with much lower sea levels),  over the last 3-4 million years.  The notion of "quasi-stable" carries with it the notion (or risk) that not very much stimulus is required to knock us out of that quasi-stable place.  That is the usual condition of all sorts of systems considered to be "quasi-stable",  in a lot of different fields of scientific endeavor. 

That kinda puts the BS label on claims that what we are seeing is another natural cycle,  doesn't it?

Whether you agree with my argument or not is immaterial.  What is important is that simple human prudence demands that we reduce those activities that we already know (as best as it is possible to "know") act in the direction that make climate warming and sea level rise inevitable.  Those are the release of known greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. 

This is an effect we already know to be happening,  based on the Keeling curve since 1959:  atmospheric CO2 content was 281 ppm then,  it is over 400 ppm today.  And lab experiments and IR transmissibility measurements confirm that (1) CO2 traps heat in the atmosphere,  and (2) its lifetime in the atmosphere after release is something on the order of 3 centuries. 

So,  stop fishing for arguments to do nothing,  and do something!  Given a grid scale storage solution,  renewables will take over the energy production market simply because they are cheaper.  Use the power of the market to speed that up!  Invest in that grid-scale storage solution,  which removes the intermittency restriction from renewables. 

How much plainer do I have to be?

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#448 2019-11-24 14:53:25

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

It will be hard to find details over that many years which could point at the who, what why earth is not staying in cycle with its past.
We have no way to know if earth is changing in its orbital path, axle alignment or bombardment from meteorites or asteriods. As the crust is churned under and the clues will be hard to find.

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#449 2019-11-27 20:26:57

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

Global climate change is happening not only in the air, soil and ice but now its even showing in the ocean as Rising Ocean Temperatures are Reshaping communities of Fish plus other marine species

Seems that we did go through a cooling and now we are warming gain as
Global winds reverse decades of slowing and pick up speed across much of the globe after about 30 years of gradual slowing.

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#450 2019-11-29 22:44:29

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,806

Re: When Science becomes perverted by Politics.

We have monitored, measured and the Greenhouse gas levels in atmosphere hit new high in 2018

with back to back years that had lots of large forest fires burning out of control there is little wonder...

atmospheric concentration of CO2 in 2018 at 407.8 parts per million, up from 405.5 parts per million (ppm) in 2017.

Thats not all that much after the earth has done its thing to obsorb the effects of the rising co2 levels.

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