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Back in 2013, looking at the prior plans for Mars Sample Return from NASA estimated at $10 billion mission cost, I was convinced it could be done for two orders of magnitude cheaper cost:
newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=117054#p117054
I didn’t offer the calculation then for how it could be done though. I finally got around to it:
Low cost commercial Mars Sample Return.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2023/0 … eturn.html
This estimates using a launch on the Falcon Heavy a total mission cost of a few hundred million dollars using the commercial space approach of SpaceX.
In an upcoming blog post I’ll show the calculations for a smaller version of the mission with launch on the Falcon 9 at a total cost less than $100 million.
Robert Clark
Last edited by RGClark (2023-08-06 09:15:35)
Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):
“Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”
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'I have two more rock samples to show you! Here’s a look at Samples No. 14 and 15. I took these from a rock that my science team thinks has good potential to preserve signs of ancient life.'
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News for a NASA led Mars Sample Return mission is becoming worse, primarily because of its estimated $10 billion cost. Actually done by commercial space probably can be done two orders of magnitude cheaper.
At such low cost in fact NASA should offer an incentive prize akin to the X-prize to suborbital space won by SpaceShip one. Say $200 million to the team to do it.
Robert Clark
Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):
“Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”
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Space dot com says between $8 billion to $11 billion.
NASA to address concerns about Mars Sample Return mission's 'unrealistic budget'
https://www.space.com/nasa-to-address-f … rn-mission
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NASA Reevaluates Mars Sample Return Mission After Budget and Timeline Constraints
https://citylife.capetown/science/nasa- … -2/450711/
NASA Will Leave Mars Samples in Orbit Following “Orderly Shutdown” of Sample Return Program
https://spaceref.com/science-and-explor … n-program/
Facing uncertainty around its budget, NASA's MSR mission will focus on getting Mars samples into orbit
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A good reason to bring back those samples
Meridiani Planum appears to be rich in hematite spherules, which present one of the best iron ore resources on Mars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridiani_PlanumInterestingly, the high phosphorus content of rocks also suggests that this region will be rich in uranium and thorium. These two will be important energy resources on Mars. But Meridiani Planum is a long way from Cerberus Fossae, which is the region of Mars where geothermal energy is most abundant and where we may find the vital resource of liquid water. This would be the best place to establish an early base, which will eventually grow into a colony. The two regions are on opposite sides of the planet. As Martian population grows, there will be increasing interest in linking these two areas by roads.
On Earth, large igneous inclusions are associated with deposits of nickel, copper, titanium, iron, platinum, palladium, and chromium.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_MarsThe closest LII to Cerberus Fossae is Elysium.
As the Martian colony grows, the raw material requirements from these areas will grow. All are within the northern hemisphere and all border the northern plain. The plain itself is the easiest location for roads, as its topography is relatively flat and the plains are dominated by deep, fine regolith deposits suitable for road construction. I can forsee the Martian colonies constructing a ring road around the edge northern basin early in the colony development. This road will have numerous spurs leading to important sites.
The south will probably remain undeveloped for a long time. Topography makes in difficult to access and the northern plain is richer overall in water. The main target for human colonisation will be the northern hemisphere, in areas bordering the northern plain. These are the most valuable lands to begin scouting.
Of course mars sounds more like earth than we knew as tthe resources are not where we live seems to be a common theme.
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MSR problems illustrative of challenges for NASA flagship missions, audit concludes
https://spacenews.com/msr-problems-illu … concludes/
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If I recall Lockheed got the contracts to build the sample return Capture, Containment and Return System (CCRS) and that is why it's not getting done on the budget and on time.
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Going from Earth collecting a Mars rock or bit of stony Mars sand and bringing it from Mars to Earth, is it more complex than Apollo? If it had been done all those years ago we would finally have seen a genuine modern sample of what Mars is made of.
perhaps answer that 'Alien Life' question? but others say the stone and dust and rocks are from a long dead lake
JPL has already laid off one hundred contractors
One MSR they now state is equally expensive as 3 in-situ Robot Lab Rover exploration missions which studies samples on Mars without going back to Earth.
Some people have raised political issues like cross planet contamination. There is also supposed to be a Lab ready that is sealed on levels for Smallpox, Anthrax, bacteriology, virus and other agents of bioterror disease etc The International Committee Against Mars Sample Return (ICAMSR) is an advocacy group led by Barry DiGregorio, that campaigns against a Mars sample-return mission, DiGregorio also supports a view or conspiracy that several pathogens – such as common viruses – originate in space and probably caused some mass extinctions and pandemics.
https://web.archive.org/web/20021029170 … rs.sample/
Can NASA save this mission? China also has a mission and maybe if NASA does not go first but maybe the Chinese will get there first...and NASA might cancel the current mission anyways, any European state might pull funding. ESA is a bit lost and could be of no help, French were friendly with Russia's launch vehicles arriving in South America, Rosalind Franklin ExoMars Aurora Program, they had lander failures but looking good during Mars Express 20 years + in orbit and other missions Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO) but ESA now seems lost. Working with ESA Russia was to build a robotic Mars lander, Russian invasion of Ukraine has caused an indefinite delay of the programme, as the member states of the ESA voted to suspend the joint mission with Russia. A proposed mission is a proposed mission to collect rock and dust samples on Mars and return them to Earth has been around a long time.
One social media guy does education science videos, Simon Whistler makes a lot of video content, an English YouTube personality who currently resides in Prague, he runs sixteen social media channels at the same time and uploads lots of news, history and science content, he also does podcasts and made books on narration and audio production, he might also have mirror or sister websites and blogs.
'What’s Wrong with the Mars Sample Return Mission?'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_EjLTvhVrw
Final NASA 2024 spending bill defers decision on MSR funding
https://spacenews.com/final-nasa-2024-s … r-funding/
Congressional appropriators have released a final fiscal year 2024 spending bill that cuts NASA funding from what the agency received in 2023 while deferring a decision on spending for Mars Sample Return (MSR).
House and Senate appropriators released March 3 the bill text and report language for 6 of 12 appropriations bills for fiscal year 2024, including the commerce, justice and science (CJS) spending bill that funds NASA. Congress is expected to pass the bills before the continuing resolution funding the agencies covered by the bill expires March 8.
The bill provides $24.875 billion for NASA, 2% less than what the agency received in 2023 and 8.5% less than the $27.185 billion NASA requested for 2024. The final figure is also below the levels in the separate House and Senate bills of $25.367 billion and $25 billion, respectively.
On MSR, where the House and Senate offered vastly different figures, the final bill instead gives NASA flexibility. Uncertainty about spending on the program prompted NASA to reduce spending on MSR in November while under a continuing resolution, and that extended uncertainty led the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the lead center for MSR, to lay off 8% of its staff in February.
In the report accompanying the bill, appropriators noted NASA is reassessing the architecture of MSR through a group called the MSR Independent Review Board Response Team, or MIRT. “The agreement directs NASA to report no later than 60 days following completion of the MIRT report on the recommended path forward for MSR, within a balanced Science portfolio,” the report stated, including a year-by-year funding profile for MSR.
The report directs NASA to spend no less than $300 million, the amount in the Senate bill, on MSR, and up to the request of $949.3 million, the amount in the House bill. It also directs NASA to not lay off any more people in the MSR program until the agency provides Congress with the report on the future of MSR.
What seems to be the case is the Money does not add up, it is limited now so MSR isn't cut something else in planetary needs to be, the Moon, Europa Clipper, Titan Dragon Fly, Commercial Moon missions, possible future Enceladus mission, Ceres sample return.
maybe they can quickly re-design, its not dead yet
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-04 08:19:42)
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