Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

SpaceNut · 2018-06-16 17:20:44

Sample Return Technology Successfully Tested on Xodiac Rocket landing to collect a sample of more than 320 grams of top soil from the surface of the desert floor.

afrc2018-0107-007.jpg?itok=0qqWJNRE

PlanetVac is a surface soil collection system for a sample return mission. The configuration tested would replace a foot pad of a planetary lander spacecraft. The goal is to bring back a sample of surface soil from a celestial body.
“Bringing something back from another planet, celestial body, is the Holy Grail of planetary science,”
The pneumatic sampler foot pad starts operation after the lander touches down on a surface. Compressed gas is injected into the foot pad enclosure, lofting the soil into a cyclone separator for collection.
“What it does is kind of like your vacuum,” The pneumatic sampler foot pad starts operation after the lander touches down on a surface. Compressed gas is injected into the foot pad enclosure, lofting the soil into a cyclone separator for collection.
“What it does is kind of like your vacuum,” “It creates an area of high pressure in the front and uses an area of low pressure in the back to suck up the sample.
“The Flight Opportunities program allowed us to take the PlanetVac idea and actually strap it on to Masten’s rocket putting it in a situation more realistic to what it might encounter in a space mission,” said Spring. “This reduces the risk since we now know it can survive both landing and heating loads as well as the rocket environment and still collect the sample and retain it to come back.”

SpaceNut · 2019-06-04 22:03:59

The stuff that dreams are made of when Mars on Earth - what next?

SpaceNut · 2019-07-29 20:53:53

Europe prepares for Mars courier

The campaign aims to bring at least 500 grams of samples back from the Jezero crater that once held a lake and contains an ancient preserved river delta. The rocks in the area preserve information about Mars' diverse geology.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human … xploration

The main challenges are the electric propulsion and power generation. "Not to forget finding and navigating the spacecraft to rendezvous with the football sized orbiting sample over 50 million km away from ground control," adds Orson.
The spacecraft will use technological heritage from ESA's most recently launched science mission, BepiColombo: both use electric propulsion and multi-stage detachable modules.

http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images … nfographic

Once it has collected them in what can be likened to an interplanetary treasure hunt, it will return to the lander platform and load them into a single large canister on the Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV). This vehicle will perform the first liftoff from Mars and carry the container into Mars orbit.

SpaceNut · 2019-10-09 17:43:24

What does it take to get back home

http://www.hydrogen-peroxide.us/uses-mo … s-1997.pdf

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-bl … art-1.html

https://space.stackexchange.com/questio … h-would-be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BFR_(rocket)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propellant_mass_fraction

SpaceNut · 2019-12-08 18:52:40

Mission to bring back rocks to Earth

SpaceNut · 2020-01-11 22:32:16

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi … 002123.pdf
Development Concepts for Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV) Solid and Hybrid Vehicle Systems

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/marsc … f/4353.pdf
NOFBX™ MARS ASCENT VEHICLE: A SINGLE STAGE TO ORBIT APPROACH

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/marsc … f/4342.pdf
A STORABLE, HYBRID MARS ASCENT VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATOR FOR THE 2020
LAUNCH OPPORTUNITY

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2019-4149
A Design for a Two Stage Solid Mars Ascent Vehicle

SpaceNut · 2020-01-12 22:10:42

As much as I would want man to get to mars we have yet to do a sample return from mars making use of the small baseline of how we would get men back from mars. Many of the software, sensors for what we design with and communications will tested in making the mission possible.

https://web.stanford.edu/~cantwell/Rece … a_2011.pdf
Feasibility of a single port Hybrid Propulsion system for a Mars Ascent Vehicle

https://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/ … 059309.pdf
Planetary Science Decadal Survey: MSR Lander Mission Two-Stage Solid Motor MAV Concept tp return the sample home

MSL edl mass tables are present in document
It contains a specialized rover for moving the sample the the return cache chamber

https://web.stanford.edu/~cantwell/Rece … 3-3899.pdf
Hybrid Rocket Propulsion and In-Situ Propellant Production for Future Mars Missions

https://kiss.caltech.edu/lectures/Karp_Lecture_PPT.pdf
Hybrid Rocket Propulsion for a Low Temperature Mars Ascent Vehicle

SpaceNut · 2020-01-25 20:47:21

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ....
The Job Creators at NASA have an offer for someone ...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nasa-hiring- … 00762.html
The salary is competitive.
(th)

Wow what a dream job....for Mars Sample Return and will repost this there as well.

NASA is offering a salary of up to $188,066 for the role.

The space agency needs someone to direct a mission to get the first rocks from Mars back to Earth. Once on the red planet, the robot is tasked with collecting and storing samples in sealed caches. Scientists have been itching to study pristine Martian soil in their own labs for many years. So far, they've only been able to examine fragments of Martian meteorites that hit Earth.
For the director of this ambitious program, of course, NASA has a long list of qualifications. The simplest are a bachelor's degree in science, willingness to travel, and demonstrated leadership. Experience executing end-to-end space-travel mission development is also required, since the job responsibilities include the design of the program and its budget, as well as continued project management and oversight.

Heavily relying on designers to accomplish the task and what you will be doing is directing the team hopefully to success.

12901c1f1df78b46cd59245a149bdb08

SpaceNut · 2020-02-11 18:17:50

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … ZRAPu]NASA gives JPL green light for mission to bring a piece of Mars back to Earth
The budget for the 2021 fiscal year would also provide nearly $2.7 billion for planetary science, including $233 million to develop the Mars Sample Return mission.
Still, if all goes as planned, the Mars Sample Return mission would launch in 2026 and, with the aid of a third satellite mission, return its first Martian cargo by 2031.
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine on Monday unveiled a $25.2-billion plan that would send astronauts back to the moon by 2024 as part of the space agency's Artemis program, and ultimately prepare for a crewed mission tothe Red Planet.

The White House's budget request for NASA earmarks more than $3.3 billion for a lunar landing system for humans

SpaceNut · 2020-10-21 20:38:41

2026 mission of the Mars Sample Return
Leonardo at work on robotic arms for the NASA and ESA Mars Sample Return mission

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en

SpaceNut · 2020-10-22 20:37:54

The path that ExoMars 2022 will follow to reach the Red Planet is set. The trajectory that will take the spacecraft from Earth to Mars in 264 days foresees a touchdown on the martian surface on 10 June 2023, at around 17:30 CEST (15:30 UTC).

http://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/ … on/ExoMars

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-06-09 07:34:11

How NASA is hunting for signs of life on Mars
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/na … fe-on-mars

Musk has plans for Mars but no mention of a MSR mission...yet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Mars_program

ESA Mars rover programme makes significant advance with tests of duplicate unit
https://news.skygoal.education/esa-mars … cate-unit/

Russia returned samples from Space during the Space Race era of the coldwar

Japan has returned Asteroid samples, the sample capsule landed at the Woomera Test Range in Australia.

China's Chang'e-5 spacecraft returned Moon samples to Earth in 2020
https://www.planetary.org/space-missions/change-5

Mars Ascent Vehicle from Northrop Grumman takes shape for Mars Sample Return mission
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/06 … le-update/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-06-09 07:39:48)

SpaceNut · 2021-11-25 20:25:39

https://edspace.american.edu/davidrose/ … rtinez.pdf

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-21 17:38:12

All of a sudden there were 3

China plans Mars sample return mission, sets same deadline as NASA
https://www.aerotime.aero/29368-chinas- … e-as-nasas

Airbus, ESA, SpaceX ?
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/2695 … s-2026.htm

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-12-21 17:39:03)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-03-13 11:27:24

Exomars mentioned here

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is redrawing the geopolitics of space
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00727-x
The International Space Station is operating as normal, but other partnerships are unravelling.

Partnerships stalled
More broadly, Russia’s space partnerships are fraying along geopolitical lines. The country halted launches from Europe’s spaceport in French Guiana and stopped rocket engine sales to the United States. Rogozin announced on 26 February that Russia would no longer work with NASA on a planned mission to Venus called Venera-D (although the two agencies did not have a formal relationship to do so). ESA is looking for a new ride for its ExoMars rover mission, after its launch aboard a Russian rocket this year was cancelled. And a German astronomy team, led by the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, switched off a German-built instrument on the Russian astronomical observatory Spektr-RG halfway through its planned observations.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-28 04:47:00

NASA and ESA remove rover from Mars Sample Return plans

https://spacenews.com/nasa-and-esa-remo … urn-plans/

SpaceNut · 2022-07-28 21:01:37

Well that just added a delay for getting samples here to earth for study.

Seems that there is a plan B A joint NASA-European mission to bring rock and soil samples back from Mars will now include two small helicopters, it was announced on Wednesday.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-21 12:50:26

Tianwen-3: China's Mars sample return mission

https://www.planetary.org/articles/tian … rn-mission

SpaceNut · 2022-09-21 18:44:54

Just proves that if we get our thumbs out from under us that we could achieve such samples from mars as well.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-27 10:29:10

Extremophiles on Mars could survive for hundreds of millions of years. The findings increase the probability that microbial life could still exist on the Red Planet.

https://www.space.com/mars-microbes-con … m-survival

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-09 04:54:04

China's two plans to return Mars samples, both require two launches of Long March 5 in 2028 and will return in July of 2031.

The return orbiter will launch in November of 2028 in both cases. The lander/ascender will launch in Dec or May.
This is from a speech of Sun Zezhou,...

https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 7961435137

SpaceNut · 2023-03-09 18:46:32

considering that the current rover is being relayed by an unconvential means its data one can only wish them well...

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-19 06:38:03

This thread was originally posted in 2017, MSR was an amazing concept, a very complex mission it is now 2023 and MSR is eating some sizeable level of NASA's budget

Sample return were considered in the 60s and 1970s, they probably would have done it successful in the 90s with the political willpower and keeping things simple. The NASA mission is far more complex than China's mission, searching around for samples of greater scientific value, a committee of different people adding their own packages maybe that is what has been adding to costs. The Russian or Soviets also once looked at a Mars sample-return mission they also have been look at a Mars-Moon sample with Mars-Grunt but the Russian program is going nowhere these days and all its money and energy is for war and the invasion of Ukraine. The Chinese mission seems more simple like what was studied in the 60s and 80s, send a Long March 5 and an orbiter and return module, launch it all, grab a bit of Mars and then comeback. Samples would be returned to Earth in July 2031, this gives China less science but more political bragging right, news media will say perhaps they did it first.

JPL/JSC Mars Sample Return Study I (1984)
https://www.wired.com/2012/12/jpljsc-ma … dy-i-1984/
NASA and its contractors have planned missions to return samples from Mars since the mid-1960s. Mars Sample Return is considered by many to be the most advanced robotic Mars mission. In the 1980s, NASA conducted a multi-year study of a large-scale Mars Sample Return mission. Beyond Apollo blogger David S. F. Portree outlines the initial phase of the study then criticize NASA for a sample return which has yet to materialize.

'Mars Sample Return cost growth threatens other science missions'

https://spacenews.com/mars-sample-retur … -missions/

NASA’s effort to return samples from Mars is facing increasing costs that is putting pressure not just on other planetary science missions but also a major heliophysics mission.

https://twitter.com/NASAPersevere/statu … 1463883776
'We've got some good sample hunters in the comments! Many can pick out two tubes fairly easily by following my tracks. And if you download the high-res selfie you might spot several more'

Video
The mission to return martian samples back to Earth will see a European 2.5 metre-long robotic arm pick up tubes filled with precious soil from Mars and transfer them to a rocket for an historic interplanetary delivery.
The sophisticated robot, known as the Sample Transfer Arm or STA, will play a crucial role in the success of the Mars Sample Return campaign.
The Sample Transfer Arm is conceived to be autonomous, highly reliable and robust. The robot can perform a large range of movements with seven degrees of freedom, assisted by two cameras and a myriad of sensors. It features a gripper – akin to a hand – that can capture and handle the sample tubes at different angles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0SqlCr_jY

In support of the NASA-ESA Mars Sample Return, rock, regolith (Martian soil), and atmosphere samples are being cached by Perseverance. Currently, out of 43 sample tubes, 21 of them have been cached, including 15 rock sample tubes, two regolith sample tubes, an atmosphere sample tube, and three witness tubes. Before launch, 5 of the 43 tubes were designated “witness tubes” and filled with materials that would capture particulates in the ambient environment of Mars.
https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26218/p … e-tube-266

Perseverance's complex Sampling and Caching System takes almost an hour to retrieve the metal tube from inside the rover's belly, view it one last time with its internal Cachecam, and drop the sample ~0.89 m (2 ft 11 in) onto a carefully selected patch of Martian surface.
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/9323/nasas-p … rs-surface

Mars Sample Recovery Helicopters are a pair of robotic unmanned helicopters being developed by the engineers of the American company AeroVironment Inc. and proposed in March 2022 as a means of delivering Martian soil samples from the sample depots made by the Perseverance rover to the location of the Sample Retrieval Lander (SRL) that will load these samples onto the Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV), which, in accordance with the NASA-ESA Mars Sample Return program, will deliver them to low Martian orbit for future return to earth

Mars 2020 Rover Adaptive Caching Assembly: Caching Martian Samples for Potential Earth Return
https://dataverse.jpl.nasa.gov/dataset. … 2014/52365

2021: Samples in Review
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/ … in-review/
Written by Rachel Kronyak, Systems Engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Sample Recovery Helicopters would take off and land at predetermined sites, or helipads, that have been found suitable and safe, and would use in-flight, map-based navigation to reach the known locations of sample tubes left on the surface
https://mars.nasa.gov/msr/spacecraft/sa … licopters/

The tubes will not be piled up at a single spot. Instead, each tube-drop location will have an "area of operation" 5.5 m (18 ft) in diameter. To that end, the tubes will be deposited on the surface in an intricate zigzag pattern of 10 spots for 10 tubes, with each sample ~5 m (16 ft) to 15 m (49 ft) apart from one another near the proposed Sample retrieval lander's landing site. There are various reasons for this plan, biggest for placing them far apart being that is that sample recovery helicopters because they are designed to interact with only one tube at a time. Alongside, they will perform takeoffs and landings, and driving in that spot. To ensure a helicopter could retrieve samples without any problem, the plan to be executed properly and would span over more than two months.

Mars Ascent Vehicle MAV is a two-stage, solid-fueled rocket that will deliver the collected samples from the surface of Mars to the Earth Return Orbiter.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-19 06:46:33)

SpaceNut · 2023-06-29 22:29:06

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

SLS not the only one eating the budget but also MSR costs
The Mars Sample Return Mission is Starting to Look Expensive
https://www.universetoday.com/162174/th … expensive/

It is sort of three mission in 1 for the parts that are needed to get just a small amount of mars back to study directly in labs

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-03 11:24:40

Cost Over-Runs?

How did NASA and ESA screw up MarsSampleReturn? Even JAXA could have NASA beat and Japan has also shown interest in participating in taking samples from the Moons of Mars. From the surface only the USA and China have successfully operated Rovers in exploration on the surface of Mars.

Mars sample-return (MSR) is a simple enough idea, the mission is a proposed landing on Mars to collect rock/soil and dust samples on the Martian surface and return them to Earth and see what Mars is made from by examining the samples in a Lab back on Earth or even there were ideas for checking samples on the ISS Station...there was paranoia at first about how to examine samples, maybe this was due to watching scifi movies and fear of cross-contamination. Stored samples returned to Earth can be studied with the most sophisticated science instruments and Laboratory available. Doing joint missions is not a bad idea, the Hubble Space Telescope was a joint mission, the ISS a joint international project, the Cassini-Huygens exploration of the Saturn system. However something went wrong with Mars Sample Return mission, what are those factors sending it out of control? Perhaps the USA and mankind should already have a smaple returned, its possible with the right will power this could have been done already with the right will power with the Vikings landing in Chryse Planitia and Utopia Planitia. The US National Research Councileven one time declared an MSR campaign its highest priority Flagship Mission. Decades pass by, over twenty years ago JPL requested mission concepts and proposals from industry-led teams Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and TRW. Reports suggest that MSR of today has severe cost difficulties already, it is already an enormously complex mission, NASA and ESA's proposal is still in the design stage and facing significant cost overruns as of August 2023. 20 Years ago an ESA satellite Mars Express arrived at Mars in 2003, there was later an ExoMars programme led by the European Space Agency and the Russian Roscosmos State Corporation.The mission was scheduled to launch in July 2020 but postponed to 2022. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has caused an indefinite delay of the programme, the Rover Rosalind Franklin was going to move off a Russian lander named Kazachok which is gone. The NASA–ESA potential mission schedule anticipated launches from Earth in 2018, 2022 and 2024 to send Rovers with drills, science labs on the surface, helicopters, respectively a sample caching rover, then a Rocket on the surface, a sample return orbiter and a sample retrieval lander and then another complex mission for the return home which would probably do something else complicated before it got to Earth. The new Sample Fetching Helicopter (SFH) idea was talked about and talk about the Sample Transfer Arm (STA) development. In the month of April 2021, the Planetary Science Advisory Committee was "very concerned about the high cost" of MSR https://science.nasa.gov/researchers/na … ittees/pac
Mars Ascent Vehicle or MAV is to be launched in on board the SRL lander. US Congress has set the price limit on MSR at $5.3b. https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-puts- … 00280.html.
NASA’s Mars Sample Return has a new price tag—and it’s colossal
https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/t … ker-shock/
"It is better to not do it than to torch the whole science community."
Some people on social media said other companies such as Elon Musk's Space X in particular should be allowed bid or propose ideas to fix whatever is going on with Mars Sample Return although Space-X has not proven itself in landing planetary science missions it does flawlessly deliver people and cargo to the ISS.
The Senate Approps rpt on CJS has pretty harsh language about Mars Sample Return. "Alarmed" at cost growth, skdl slip, impact on other sci program. Wants a yr-by-yr funding profile that stays within the $5.3 B lifecycle cost from the Decadal Survey or the mission is cancelled.
https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/statu … 2816675845
The news from last year stated 'NASA Will Inspire World When It Returns Mars Samples to Earth in 2033'
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa … th-in-2033

As NASA's MSR stumbles with money and complexity problems, another nation like China now has the possibility of landing on Mars, doing a simpler mission grabbing any sample and bringing it back all in one-go before the USA or NASA or Europe get any sample.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2018-06-16 17:20:44

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#27 2019-06-04 22:03:59

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#28 2019-07-29 20:53:53

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#29 2019-10-09 17:43:24

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#30 2019-12-08 18:52:40

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#31 2020-01-11 22:32:16

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#32 2020-01-12 22:10:42

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#33 2020-01-25 20:47:21

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#34 2020-02-11 18:17:50

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#35 2020-10-21 20:38:41

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#36 2020-10-22 20:37:54

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#37 2021-06-09 07:34:11

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#38 2021-11-25 20:25:39

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#39 2021-12-21 17:38:12

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#40 2022-03-13 11:27:24

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#41 2022-07-28 04:47:00

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#42 2022-07-28 21:01:37

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#43 2022-09-21 12:50:26

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#44 2022-09-21 18:44:54

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#45 2022-10-27 10:29:10

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#46 2023-03-09 04:54:04

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#47 2023-03-09 18:46:32

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#48 2023-03-19 06:38:03

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#49 2023-06-29 22:29:06

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

#50 2023-08-03 11:24:40

Re: Mars Sample Return (MSR) Mission

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