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#1551 2020-02-11 18:10:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

top of page is why in post 1526...

President Trump's budget is a reflection of his State of the Union: A dangerous litany of falsehoods President Trump lied again and again about his record on the economy. The president's budget for Fiscal Year 2021 is a roadmap for his destructive policies to cut Medicaid and lay the groundwork for cuts to Social Security and Medicare. It continues his ongoing war against access to affordable health care. Further, it proposes dangerous cuts to economic opportunity and diminishes the tools available to protect our national security.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u … t_fy21.pdf

President Trump, is still creating 42,000 fewer jobs each month than the last thirty-six months of the Obama administration.
Under President Obama, median household incomes rose a staggering $4,800, compared to just $1,400 under President Trump in which  December wages slipped to their lowest rate of growth in 18 months. He claimed that his 2017 tax scam would see GDP growth of 6 percent. Compared to GDP growth before he signed the tax scam into law, though, it hasn't changed at all. He continues to claim that the economy is performing miracles and that his tax cuts for the wealthiest pay for themselves. American workers and their families, though, haven't seen the benefits promised by the president and his allies. Indeed, the only major outcome of their tax scam has been trillions of dollars in new deficits and debt - a fact the president ignores when confronted with his campaign promise to eliminate the national debt entirely.

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#1552 2020-02-11 18:12:22

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,870

Re: Politics

I'm definitely not fascinated by skin colour. I agree with you that people are actually a lot more similar around the world than might seem the case. I think there might almost be a "Great Silent Majority" on Planet Earth of people who really don't want to make things like pigmentation, religion or political ideology determinants of how we interact one with the other. 

The USA is the only country in the whole world explicitly founded on ideas as opposed to ethnicity, religion or other group identity.

It has been stunningly successful to date but identity politics threaten to destroy it. I hope that Americans continue to adhere to their constitution, which Donald Trump - as the record shows - has adhered to in  every jot and particular, freely accepting all Supreme Court decisions.



kbd512 wrote:

Calliban / Louis / SpaceNut,

I really don't understand this fascination with skin color.  Then again, I've been around the world a time or two and couldn't help but notice that most people were far more similar than they were different, irrespective of what they looked like, until you start asking them what they believe in, which is where you find out just how different they can be.  I've met a cab driver from Nigeria that I have more in common with than people who look just like I do.  Much like myself, he just wants the opportunity to pursue what he considers worthwhile and wants our government to stay in its own lane.  I can't speak to anyone else's opinion, but for me this is about what we, as a nation, value.  I could honestly care less about the skin color of my fellow Americans, or where they hail from for that matter.  What I want is some set of worthwhile core values placed upon citizenship.  Skin color is definitely not a core value.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#1553 2020-02-12 02:51:04

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,304
Website

Re: Politics

The USA is the only country in the whole world explicitly founded on ideas as opposed to ethnicity, religion or other group identity.

Well, with the exception of free whites of good character.

It is a blatant lie to claim America was founded as a proposition nation, unless that proposition is "this country is for our descendants".


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#1554 2020-02-13 18:32:47

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

After the up and down yanking around that our troops have had to deal with from its commander its little wonder why congress saw that it needed to step In Bipartisan Bid to Restrain Trump, Senate Passes Iran War Powers Resolution

The bipartisan vote, 55 to 45, amounted to a rare attempt by the Senate to restrain Mr. Trump’s authority, Democrats joined forces with eight Republicans to try to rein in the president’s war-making powers weeks after he escalated hostilities with Tehran.

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#1555 2020-02-13 21:19:24

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

From your article:

“After many decades of abdicating responsibility — under presidents of both parties — it is time for Congress to take this so very seriously,” Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia and the lead sponsor of the measure, said.

It's funny how Democrats only take their responsibilities seriously when they're jockeying for personal or partisan political advantage.  I'm pretty sure that the only responsibilities that our Democrat politicians take "so very seriously" is doing everything possible to undermine America's national security and selling us out to their communist cronies overseas.

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#1556 2020-02-14 05:44:36

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 532

Re: Politics

Free speech dies in Britain.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/uk- … peech-dies

To all Americans: If you ever have reason to doubt the importance of the 1st amendment, look across the water to the country that doesn't have it.  Expressing the 'wrong' personal opinion can land you with a long prison sentence in Britain.  Whilst Britain has elections, a democracy can only function on the premise of free speech and free exchange of ideas and information.  When government and its lackeys control the narrative, you are living in a dictatorship.

If Trump is at all interested in helping Britain, he should be sanctioning the UK as an oppressive regime, not offering it a trade deal.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-02-14 06:18:52)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#1558 2020-03-09 19:11:43

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Typical fighting over ideology on whom it will help and hurt.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz
paid to stay home is what sick time is for but form many that get it all ready saving it is not possible in all companies for the future for when you need it. There are those that get none at all. So we need something that can be afforded by the small business and not abused by those that are not sick....

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#1559 2020-03-20 09:13:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

The US is about to creat bills that will help the economics of the country but many are wondering The US owes $23.5 trillion – but can still afford a big coronavirus stimulus package
Plan 1: Help businesses
McConnell defends crafting $1 trillion stimulus plan without Democrats saying bipartisan negotiations were skipped in favor of speed.

The emergency economic aid proposal would include direct payments to Americans under a certain income threshold, $200 billion in loans to airlines and distressed industry sectors and $300 billion in forgivable bridge loans for small businesses

Plan 2: Help some of the people targetting the working
McConnell plan: $1,200 payments per person and $2,400 for couples; $1T rescue takes shape

phased out at income thresholds of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 per couple. Additionally, there would be $500 payments for each child.

Plan 3: No help for the rest of you that are homeless, not filing a tax return and retired

The elderly are worried about Don't worry: You'll still get Social Security amid the virus outbreak

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#1560 2020-03-21 19:24:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Something we do not need isTrump's right hand getting any more powers due to this virus...
DOJ appeals to Congress for new emergency powers amid pandemic asking for a slew of new emergency powers...

https://www.factcheck.org/person/donald-trump/

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#1561 2020-03-21 20:06:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

The dismantled agency that would have gotten the ball rolling sooner and not listening to the U.S. intelligence reports from January and February warned about a likely pandemic as lawmakers (yours truely) played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting. The course of action is still being left up to each state to control what to do and how to execute what can be done.

kbd512 wrote:

SpaceNut,

The only actions that would've appreciably slowed or prevented the spread of the pathogen are the very actions you and your fellow Democrats decry as racism and xenophobia.  With respect to your Post #157 in this thread, some of us can't help but notice that there's a running theme associated with virtually all of the political articles you post.  I don't think you've posted a link to a politics-related article that wasn't critical of President Trump for the nearly four years he's been in office.  You've never met the man and know nothing of his reasoning or actions, you only take the beliefs of people who don't like him, for their own ideological reasons, at face value.  If you don't understand the humor in that, then let me explain why it's so funny to me.

1. You and others here claim or insinuate that Republicans are always lying or "wrong" in some ill-defined way directly related to your ideology, yet any time you can find a Republican, or someone remotely associated with the Republican Party, or some previously anonymous official from President Trump's administration that the Democrat Party wouldn't deign to fart at, who says something that could be construed in some way to be derogatory about President Trump, you eagerly re-post / re-tweet your Democrat-run media's opinions about President Trump without any context.  I honestly think that history began yesterday for the Democrats, because that's the only explanation that holds water when they start making wild claims and accusations.  Unless what you're doing is directly linked to your ideology, why choose to believe anything that those Republicans have to say, other than your old and tired "orange man bad" standby?

Seriously, though, is there anybody from your own political party with credibility who can state their case for why they disagree with anything and everything that President Trump says or does, apart from spending more of our tax money (the one issue that never seems to run afoul of party politics)?

If you think you have any argument to make that holds water, then can anyone from the Democrat Party make that argument and provide specific policies that they could actually implement, outside of the normal broken promises associated with magical thinking about what any given President could realistically do, that would actually change the course of our country for the better?

2. After the personal attacks directed at me and Republicans in general, characterizing all of us as racists / bigots / xenophobes / deplorables for the "thought crime" of believing that silly little concepts like immigration laws should be enforced, and I guess for the accessory crime of holding those beliefs while also having pale colored skin, the first chance your party gets they go off and nominate people who are whiter than President Trump to run against him.  For years, if not decades, both former President Obama and former Vice President Biden, Senator Pelosi, and others were saying and doing the exact same things President Trump said and did about the need for enforcement of our immigration laws.

I use the example of Senator Pelosi here because she’s an active member of Congress and someone who’s been in government for decades, just like former Vice President Biden and former President Obama, but she succinctly states the issue that many Republicans have been saying.

"While we need to address the issue of immigration and the challenge we have of undocumented people in our country, we certainly don't want any more coming in." - Nancy Pelosi, 2008 Press Conference on Immigration

"But you just cannot say -- and there is a disagreement that anybody coming across the border is breaking the law, not until there has been a determination as to whether they can stay or not." - Nancy Pelosi, 2019 Press Conference on Immigration

I could go on to post quotes captured on television cameras and actual votes in the legislature from former President Obama and former Vice President Biden, but it's a waste of my time since anyone with the intellectual curiosity could either "A" - determine everything I've just stated is factual or "B" - determine that I've somehow mis-represented what they said or lied about it.  You could also "C", choose to contort what was said and done to suit your own beliefs about this or any other issue, but that also deliberately ignores your voting records as it pertains to who you and your fellow Democrats elected to represent the Democrat Party in our federal government.

Well, Nancy, that's not what the actual text of our current immigration laws happens to state- you know, the ones you voted for making illegal immigration a felony.  If you over-stay your VISA you are in fact in violation of the law and because that was signed into law after it was drafted and passed by the body you serve with, it carried criminal penalties with it, which included deportation.  Furthermore, the courts have consistently upheld that interpretation of the law and all laws in general- meaning all laws come with criminal penalties (fines, jail time, or deportation for breaking immigration laws when you're not an American citizen) for not abiding by the law.  Beyond that, when your own political party had complete control over both houses of Congress and the Presidency you did nothing to change the law, if you disagreed with it.

Why do you keep voting for these people who don't do what you say you want done, SpaceNut?  I think your party's politicians will change their minds whenever the wind changes directions because the Democrat Party has no enduring principles.  They do whatever "feels good" in the moment or secures the most votes, completely oblivious to the consequences of their behavior.  They certainly won't hold their own party members to account for making poor decisions.

Why aren't your Democrat representatives fighting against closing the border now, SpaceNut?  You told me you believe in open borders and that anyone who wants to come here should be allowed to do so.  You're not becoming one of the racist / bigoted / xenophobic / deplorables, are you?  We should be bringing everyone we can from Italy and Iran to America to receive better medical care.  I always get a good laugh over Democrats being exposed to the results of their ideology, which for some strange reasons always coincides with the flurry of finger pointing they do at everyone but themselves after their behavior creates the very problem they're blaming on other people.

Democrats fought tooth and nail in the legislature and courts to prevent President Trump from doing anything at all to improve the control our government has over who enters this country and under what conditions they may enter.  Well...  Newsflash, geniuses, the virus was free to propagate to America and nearly every other country in the world specifically because national immigration control is so egregiously poor.

Blaming the unpreparedness of the federal government to respond to global pandemics is just laughable.  It's blatantly obvious that no government, no matter the people or politics involved, was prepared to deal with that- even after decades of new viruses and bacterias that could and in some cases did result in what we choose to define as global pandemics.  President Obama didn't even declare an emergency during his administration until after 1,000 Americans had already died of another one of these respiratory diseases.  So, no matter what you think about President Trump, you received a much faster response after far fewer American lives were lost that also involved invoking the war powers act to get production rolling on the items needed to combat the pandemic or treat the afflicted.

3. Instead of focusing on what became a pandemic- largely through media machinations rather than the butcher's bill since the influenza pandemic that occurred under former President Obama's watch killed far more Americans and never received a minor fraction of the media coverage that this new COVID-19 virus has received, the elected Democrats chose to focus all of their attention and our President's attention on impeachment instead of a real public health issue now named COVID-19.

Senator Pelosi and her gang of radical leftists blathered on about putting country ahead of politics as she and her fellow Democrat politicians were slobbering over the prospect of impeaching President Trump, all while this COVID-19 virus was slowly but surely making its presence felt.  When a reporter asked Senator Pelosi why she hated President Trump so much, her "un-hate-filled" mindset was made clear to the rest of us, when she responded by screaming and flailing about like a drunk schizophrenic.  Those of us who aren't completely brain dead couldn't help but notice the myriad of expressions of seething rage over the fact that someone was elected that Democrats disapprove of.

Maybe you'll give them a pass on that because you hate President Trump more than you love your fellow countrymen and your political ideology is more important than your life, but many of us don't feel that way.  I'd rather have someone who I can't stand in office than to distract them from governing our country with endless political frivolity over a difference of opinion.  I express my political opinions at the ballot box and you won't see me throwing a temper tantrum like the pink hat wearing yahoos who were screaming and crying and pounding their fists into the pavement like little two year olds because someone they had political disagreements with was elected to office.  Then again, that's probably because I'm an adult, whereas most of those people are merely the same size as adults but have none of the requisite maturity and critical thinking skills that should have been imparted to someone their age.  Perhaps during this upcoming elections cycle, as part of a very refreshing change from false accusations of collusion with foreign governments or whining and crying over elections results, we can have simple statements of belief associated with congruent actions that demonstrate adherence to those beliefs.  A four year long temper tantrum over who won a single election is too much.

What's it like electing people who are so infatuated with their ideology that they'll never even think about paying heed to issues beyond the scope of their ability to use those issues or events as weapons against their political opponents?  I really want to know, because that describes today's Democrat Party to a "T".  Do they just tell you what you want to hear and that's good enough for you?

Finally...

We always read about the chaos and terror of the Trump administration that these always-anonymous sources "close to the President" try to portray as it pertains to President Trump's administration.  Personally, I think they're upset that President Trump was elected to make the decisions rather than them.  In any event, shortly thereafter these partisan ideology driven false narratives fall apart completely the instant the first ray of sunshine strikes their little subversive schemes, which are little more than pissing contests regarding who has power and authority- and the people peddling such drivel clearly don't since President Trump remains President, not them.  I think the real cover story here is that whenever our media or political ideologues have no clue about whatever is currently happening, they just start making things up to buttress their failed ideological belief system and place their opinions in the spotlight, rather than the person the American people elected to office.

In closing, can you or someone else here actually express, in your own words, whatever it is that you think should be done, rather than re-hashing / re-tweeting opinions from people in our media about someone you've never met and likely have no intention of ever meeting or trying to understand?

For my Democrats out there, is there anything at all that doesn't get passed through your political ideology filters?

For example, if President Trump said the sky is blue, do you feel the need to express your disapproval or disagreement or prove that he's "wrong" or "lying", or does whatever meaning that does or doesn't carry with it not require political filtering or agitation?  In other words, can you ever accept that sometimes certain ideas or events "just are", and don't need to carry special political ideology or opinion with them?

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#1562 2020-03-21 21:32:58

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

So, no response then?

I can see the headline now:

President Trump Invokes Emergency War Powers Act In Response to Virus in China to Avoid Impeachment

The rest of us aren't thinking that the Democrats' utter nonsense means anything outside of their three pound universes.  Dismantling do-nothing government agencies is about making responses faster, not slower.  The government isn't in the business of making face masks, ventilators, anti-viral medications, or trained medical personnel, which means it's only effective responses to any pandemic is limited to reducing the number of paths for transmission of a disease- primarily by restricting travel to areas affected by such diseases and preventing public gatherings.  I also noticed that no other government did anything beyond restricting travel and treating the injured.  Monday morning quarter-backing aside, maybe that was the only sensible course of action at the time- at least to people who aren't intent on generating mass hysteria over problems that produce casualties at levels far below other existing diseases.

Going back to what I stated in that last post, the only way the virus would've been slowed was by having our government halt travel between America and foreign countries.  Each and every time President Trump attempted to do that before the failed impeachment attempt, he was called every name in the book by our illustrious media and taken to court by Democrat politicians for trying to protect our country.

It's quite rich that you think some government agency you never could've told me the name of prior to this ideologically motivated attack would've had any effect on the matter and if you truly believed that it would, then you would've leveled the same criticism at former President Obama for the exact same failing during the pandemic experienced by his administration, yet you never did because you never knew it existed and, of course, former President Obama could do no wrong and was never permitted to be criticized by anyone for any decision he made, as that would be racist and not simply pointing out bad decision making.

Each state's situation, with respect to the casualties produced by COVID-19, is radically different.  There's no reason to treat one or a handful of casualties the same way as 10,000 casualties.  That's something you'd intuitively know from military service.  We don't treat the death of one person or three people on a ship the same as the death of half the people on a ship, for example.  New York's COVID-19 situation is drastically different from Utah's, so rather than having a single response for every situation, there's a little nuance permitted in the response to deal with very different situations.  Similarly, there was little reason to instantly put the US and every other country in the world on total lockdown because a few people were sick in China.

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#1563 2020-03-22 09:35:51

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

The no fly is little more than building a wall which did not stop the virus as its not just sprayed in droplets but is also air borne around those that have it in shedding mode as the cdc puts it.

The out break of N1H1 or swine flu was why Obama created that agency so as to detect and give incite to how we should proceed. When you hobble an agency that you can not comprehend you get a no response and no advice. That does not matter when you are kingdom building as you tare down your predecessors labels and organization when you want you name on it.

Agencies like FEMA are just like what should be done for the medical aspects in assuring the equipment and gear are available for doctors and hospitals as that is no different than providing food, water shelter for the displaced as you are being dsiplaced from being able to "work". I have a pre-existing respitory and want to work to keep our nation strong but was sent home as its about protecting our nations greatest assets, "The People".

America has a history of unifying in trying times and rallying around the president that leads. Words matter, Trump called it a “hoax.” That some get it and get better, that there is no issue with going to work ect.... Trump was only half right in for most people, the new virus will causes only mild or moderate symptoms, such as fever and cough for those healthy not having any underlying health issues. That said he was totally wrong especially with older adults and people with existing health problems, it can cause more severe illness, including pneumonia. The stakes are higher than they’ve ever been as body count will rise; the economy will almost certainly crater from the direction chosen of half truth. Just looking in January for cruise ships and the isolation said that we were not going to be a short game of a few days but was going to be a month possibly two to stop its spread. The Nursing home was a good example of why we could not just go to work as its impact to there elderly was a death sentence.

The census for Americans is about to be a go and the checks to give aid are about to get to most americans. Combine the 2 events such that you only get it when showing proof. That keeps illegals, non americans from getting the help and leaves only the real americans to recieve benefits. Lets go one step further and add in voting registration for accurate state registries ahead of schedule.

We have already been over the dumb things that Obama did but that means the current president should keep doing the same just because the other did.

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#1564 2020-03-22 13:06:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

The struggle to find and then pay for hospital PPE is still happening as the price gouging has started for these supplies. Trump administration scrambles to offer guidance on what to do if hospitals run out of basic supplies for coronavirus as the country taps the strategic national stockpile and ramps up efforts to produce more protective equipment for health-care workers.

This fox news article is correct in the opinion that we need a planned future response for the nation from Mark Penn: In coronavirus fight, America needs a 60-day plan to battle virus and save our economy

Manufacture 5 million suitable masks, develop a working multimillion testing regime, and use the military to secure up to 300,000 ventilators or stripped-down machines that can serve the same purpose.

Federal loan guarantees combined with an aggressive Federal Reserve policy. Unlike the financial crisis in which the banks arguably had culpability for what happened, our airline and cruise ship companies did nothing wrong here.

Government-backed furlough programs that allow companies to send employees home for 60 percent of their pay with lowered payroll taxes. Unemployment insurance is important, but it’s a backstop and should not be the primary program.

A clear 60-day timeline that starts people going back to work beginning in 30 days community-by-community, depending upon the statistics showing when coronavirus infections have passed their peak there, and ending with 90 percent or more of the workforce back on the job in 60 days

But the issue is when the supplies which are still under quantity for the national stock of need as they are being restocked by the military first from the same companies rather than turning on new manufacturing for these goods.

The loan are a plus but you need a viable for big, small and non profit business to get them and if you are closed thats not going to be a good indicator of a future once we do come out of this crisis.

The help for those told to stay at home based on what they normally earn prorated is a no fly zone as the people that need help are everyone not just those which were working. The essential should not be bypassed just because they are still working as they are the lowest of paid to begin with...To which making the Americans emergency cash payments based on taxation is also a problem for those that do not need to file a tax return as they do not make enough. Congress Can Do for People What the Fed Did for Banks ...each american should be getting the same help of income level from this.

Trump can't even play a president on TV. America, we're on our own.

Trump not using his Defense Production Act powers will cost lives federal government should order factories to manufacture masks, gowns, ventilators, the essential medical equipment that is going to make the difference between life and death.

New York Gov Cuomo’s coronavirus TV briefings may have Biden, Sanders worried has been telling it like it is for whom should be getting things done...

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#1565 2020-03-22 16:29:07

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Speaking of hobbling federal agencies...  Border control doesn't work when you're not given the resources to enforce it.  Who could possibly have predicted that?  Oh, wait, yeah...  Both Republicans and law enforcement not only "predicted" precisely what has happened, but one of scenarios that both law enforcement claimed would happen and the President himself claimed would happen numerous times (that porous borders would lead to the unintended transmission of diseases from people from other countries to Americans), ACTUALLY HAPPENED!  Democrat politicians have repeatedly said they want to abolish BP and ICE, which sounds like an ingenious plan for ensuring that such events continue to occur in the future.

Our Democrat politicians seem to care more about people from other countries than they care about their fellow Americans, so try to imagine what this virus is going to do to the poor people living in Mexico and other countries in South America since their health care systems and border enforcement are practically nonexistent...  Or don't "imagine" anything and just keep watching.  Border enforcement isn't just about protecting Americans, it's about protecting everyone.  I've even made that point here on this forum.

CDC and FEMA were specifically created to deal with emergency situations such as COVID-19.  HHS was created to deal with public health issues.  We did not and still do not need another federal government bureaucracy to deal with the problems that those agencies were specifically created and tasked to deal with.  If former President Obama couldn't get a coherent pandemic response from his own people at CDC and FEMA, then whomever he appointed was the source of the problem, not "We need another government agency to deal with the problem of global pandemics when our existing agencies created to sort out such problems weren't dealing with them effectively".

That's like saying, "The car I purchased doesn't have brakes installed because someone at the factory forgot to install them, so I need to create a new car company to ensure that brakes are included with the car I purchase."  No, I think not.  You need to take the car back to the factory and have the person who neglected to install the brakes fired so they can't endanger anyone else.  Oh, and by the way, you own the factory that built a car with no brakes!

According to you, this new government agency that former President Obama created was going to "sound the alarm" and provide "insight regarding what to do about the problem", which was already being done by the WHO and CDC and HHS and CIA and DHS and USBP and and and, but SOMEHOW "providing insight about what to do about respiratory disease pandemics" DIDN'T INCLUDE PURCHASING AND STOCKPILING FACE MASKS AND RESPIRATORS AND ANTI-VIRAL DRUGS (OR NOT HAVING 50% OF THE WORLD'S MANUFACTURING CAPACITY LOCATED IN A COUNTRY WHERE MOST OF THESE VIRUSES CAME FROM)...  So this new government agency former President Obama created specifically to deal with this "new class of problem", which is not "new" in any sense of the word, was every bit as useful as a car with no brakes installed in it.  Can you even begin to imagine how stupid that sounds?

We have already been over the dumb things that Obama did but that means the current president should keep doing the same just because the other did.

I think you just made a valid point.

Democrat voters just nominated former President Obama's now-senile former Vice President Biden, someone who can't distinguish his wife from his sister.  Former President Obama didn't direct industry to start making the equipment and drugs needed to combat the respiratory viruses his administration had to contend with, whereas President Trump did, so the value of the government agency he created was effectively nonexistent.  Now please explain to me how vastly different things are going to be under a President who doesn't know what planet he's on half the time, nor what political office he's running for, much less have the ability to keep up with current events?

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#1566 2020-03-22 16:33:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Something to be cautious of is the number of increasing positive congressional personnel as the number of infected are rising ....
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/09/politics … index.html

tested positive
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, a Florida Republican
Rep. Ben McAdams, a Utah Democrat

period of self-quarantine
Rep. Mark Meadows of North Carolina Republican

29 members of Congress have announced steps to self-quarantine or otherwise isolate
Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas
Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz Florida
Republican Rep. Doug Collins of Georgia
Democratic Rep. Julia Brownley of California
Democratic Rep. Don Beyer of Virginia
Republican Sen. Rick Scott Florida 
Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham South Carolina
Democratic Rep. John Yarmuth of Kentucky
Democratic Rep. Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico
Democratic Rep. Gwen Moore of Wisconsin
Republican  Sen. Cory Gardner's Colorado
Democratic Rep. Jason Crow of Colorado,
Democratic Rep. Matt Cartwright of Pennsylvania
Republican Rep. Drew Ferguson of Georgia
Republican Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana
Republican Rep. Ann Wagner of Missouri
Democratic Rep. Stephanie Murphy of Florida
Democratic Rep. Kathleen Rice of New York
Democratic Rep. Kendra Horn of Oklahoma
Democratic Rep. Anthony Brindisi of New York
Democratic Rep. Joe Cunningham of South Carolina
Republican Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma
Republican Rep. David Schweikert of Arizona
Democratic Rep. David Price of North Carolina
Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff, a Californian
Democratic Rep. Sharice Davids of Kansas
Democratic Rep. Andy Kim of New Jersey
Democratic Rep. Vicente Gonzalez of Texas

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#1567 2020-03-22 17:14:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before coronavirus outbreak China refused access to U.S. CDC officials

Jan 2020  Chinese authorities agreed to allow the World Health Organization to send experts to China to assist with research and containment of the coronavirus outbreak.
The World Health Organization, based in Geneva is an international organization, praised China for its handling of the coronavirus outbreak back in late Feb of this year.

Jan 28, 2020 · Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said at a briefing Tuesday that the Trump administration has offered China’s minister of health, China refused help

Cdc & FEMA were specifically deal with emergency but they are reactionary not preemptive


Thats 6 months of delay from leaks coming out of china to action

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#1568 2020-03-22 19:10:30

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

All responses to diseases are reactionary.  We don't develop vaccinations and drugs to treat diseases that don't exist.  There is no such thing as "preempting a disease" because in the overwhelming majority of cases you can't distinguish a new strain of an existing type of virus or bacteria from the myriad of other known viruses without having an accurate test for it.  Nothing is fundamentally "new" about this latest coronavirus.  Merely knowing that some new strain of virus exists can't be used to formulate an effective response.  We first had a test of any kind to identify COVID-19 cases in January, but those tests had to be sent back to specially-equipped labs to get the results.  Those took hours to days to process and required special lab equipment only available at CDC headquarters and other infectious disease control centers.  Nobody was satisfied with the speed of those tests, so several American pharmaceutical companies developed much faster tests that don't require specialized lab facilities to process the results, and that was approved by FDA a day or two ago.

To this day, no country on planet Earth, no matter who their leader is nor whether or not you agree with their politics, has widespread manufacturing and distribution of testing kits in place for the COVID-19 virus.  I know you're desperate to blame President Trump for every conceivable problem on the planet, but it's quite obvious that not even a communist government (a government supposedly completely unrestrained from bringing whatever resources are required to bear on a problem such as this, though clearly that hasn't helped much) has actually implemented what you think should be implemented.

At present, the fastest and most accurate tests are currently being manufactured as I write this, and were created here in America by those evil Big Pharma companies everyone loves to hate and they accomplished that in the span of about 2 months, starting from nothing to an FDA-approved product in current production.  How much faster do you think another government agency "sounding the alarm" (but doing nothing to actually develop a test for the virus nor drugs to treat the virus) was going to make that process?

The Chinese government, along with all other governments, have an obligation to report what they know about public health issues when they know it.  Instead of reporting what they knew, the communists very selfishly decided to try to suppress information about this new corona virus.  This is not even close to the first time they've tried to suppress information about a public health problem that they knew existed.  One way or another, such problems always become public knowledge, yet they still can't get onboard with the idea that reporting problems is a good thing and prevents small problems from becoming really big problems.  These are definitely NOT the type of clowns I want running any country I live in.  I take no issue with the people of China, but their government is a menace and even they know that.

Maybe, just maybe, countries run by communists are unreliable trading partners.  Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be doing business with them until they start following the rules.  The Democrats' supposition, under former President Clinton's administration, was that bringing them into the global trading market would change their behavior for the better.  That clearly never happened, so maybe Democrats can stop carrying water for them and just admit that our trade "deals", if you could call it that, were a mistake.  Maybe, just maybe, we should have the manufacturing plants here in America to make our own drugs and medical equipment.  For some strange reason, former President Obama's administration didn't think that was a public health priority after he declared that the US was afflicted with another new respiratory illness pandemic with Chinese origins.

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#1569 2020-03-23 18:43:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Boeing to suspend production in Seattle because of virus Puget Sound area production operations for 14 days starting Mar 25.

Of course bussiness need help but also do the people that can not work due the conditions.

Governor says increased testing highlights need for more hospital beds & supplies

Coming top a state near you and at least to 3 so far Trump outlines National Guard activations for New York, California and Washington

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#1570 2020-03-24 05:42:36

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

We need as many people working as we can get, else we'll not have the food, fuel, and medical supplies required to contend with this new virus.  Prior to industrialization and modern medicine, people rarely lived to what we now call retirement age.  People who are over the age of 60 or so are essentially living on borrowed time, typically purchased at great expense.  I'm not in favor of stopping that practice, which means we need to put young and healthy people back to work.  Boeing, for example, has the aerospace fabrication technology required to make the metal and plastic parts found inside ventilators.  The textiles industry has the equipment and know-how to make gowns.  The much vaunted N95 masks are a piss poor substitute for powered positive pressure systems.

Mike Roman, CEO of 3M, said they're producing 35 million N95 masks per month at their manufacturing plant here in America, 90% are now going directly to health care workers, and they're ramping up production to 100 million masks per month.  At that production rate, how is it even possible that health our care workers don't have masks?  There only about 35 million doctors and nurses in the entire world.

Do governors and their health care staff members not understand how to pick up a telephone and call 3M to order more masks or use the internet to order more supplies?  When I was in the Navy, all I had to do to get PPE was to talk to one of our Store Keepers and if they didn't already have supplies on hand, the supplies would arrive within a week, if not sooner, and that was when I was stationed in Japan and prior to everyone having an online store.

Clearly the hospitals, most of which are supposed to maintain supplies on hand for worst-case disaster scenarios, by law, have not been maintaining proper equipment levels.  That issue needs to be handled when this is over.  When our children were born, we were charged for an entire box of gloves when the doctor only used a single pair, maybe 4 or 5 if you counted the nurses in the room, so why wasn't there most of a box of gloves left for them to use for whatever?  I don't care all that much that they did that, but since I know they didn't use that many gloves there should be extras for them to use to work with other patients.  The nitrile gloves are maybe $10 to $20 per 100 and even cheaper than that if you order 1,000 or more, and I would think hospitals would be ordering them by the 10's of thousands.

We should have enough alcohol to last several lifetimes, assuming we use it for medical purposes rather than to get drunk.  Grainger and other supply shops can source truck loads of gowns and gloves, even if they're not sterile.  Douse them in alcohol and then they will be sterile.  I see that all the sources I'd normally order from have the requisite products in stock and I know I haven't ordered a thing since this nonsense started and don't plan to, either.  Apart from the diabetes medications for my wife, we already had medical supplies for years before this latest little fiasco.  Medical training and equipment became a priority right after Hurricane Ike.

So long as people don't go nuts and buy stuff they don't need, there's plenty of products available.  I've been working from home, mostly living off of PB&J and chips plus some meat and cheeses and ramen noodles.  It's pretty quiet outside, but there's still plenty of traffic on the main roads.  We haven't been anywhere except to the pharmacy and a couple of fast food places.

My next-door neighbor called me the other day and said she wanted to buy a gun.  She's a lifelong Democrat, been on this Earth for more than 70 years and thankfully never needed one (my own personal experience differed somewhat from hers, but that's life), and has never shot a gun in her life.  I didn't try to talk her into it or out of it, but I gave a fairly complete explanation of what happens after you actually have to use a gun (you know, that whole "live by the sword, die by the sword" pep talk), the training required to understand the basic of how to use one, etc.  I think I actually talked her out of it, but we'll see.  I told her to call me if something happens or they can stay with us if they feel the need to.  Even if the Police don't show up, which has never happened here, I know I will.

In other news, my wife might have another brain tumor, same place as the last two.  We're waiting to go back to the doctor for the results, but they did 2 MRI's.  When it rains, it pours.  It has been a little rainy here, too, so everything is really green, which reminds me I need to clean the mold off the brick to keep the HOA happy.

Anyway, hope things are better in your neck of the woods.

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#1571 2020-03-24 18:20:59

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Some of what you are talking about is business market that does not normally exist and only is required when they are not meeting demand from the normal suppliers. That small business is not going to change markets of manufacture if its not got a sales agreement order in hand to switch over to what others are in need of as a result of under capacity of others.

I did hear that another auto industry maker was partnering up to aid in factory line production of ventilators.

The disinfecting with alcohol makes for a flamable gown which is normally coated with a flame retardent for hospital use.

From what I understand about the supplies needed is that they do call and are told that the cost has gone up and its going to be months before they can get the product that they are in need of.

The gun thing is just the desire to protect onself being manifested by the hysteria...

I do not over buy foods as the item will most likely be tossed out from shelf life being exceeded in the storage area and thats not all that large to begin with.

Sorry to hear the wife is battling again with health issues.
Mine is stable for the moment with just the normal water retention in the legs and fatty tumors hurting...
Insurance only allows under rules of dispensing a supply of 90 or 30 day of any of her medications with a perscription that expire usually a year after being created.

I myself am still fighting off bronchitus as usually happens in winter but lately I have been having increased sinus infections with headaches. Lungs are drying with a cough ocasionally with good breathing since coming down sick but I am watching for other signs to indicate that it might be something else.

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#1572 2020-03-24 19:31:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

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#1573 2020-03-24 22:43:56

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 3,723

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Right now we need sterile gowns and gloves.  One way to sterilize something is to dump alcohol or bleach or peroxide on it.  The military routinely does that when required because it works.  The overwhelming threat is the virus, not a fire.  I saw governor Cuomo sitting in front of a pile of masks, so they clearly have supplies in New York.  Whether or not they're using them effectively is an entirely different matter.  Maybe he needs more manpower or trucks to get them delivered, but the National Guard is there and I know for sure that they didn't walk there.

Modern ventilators are vastly more complicated than the PLSS in the space suits that our astronauts wear.  The idea that any company is going to be able to crank them out by the tens of thousands, merely because the President said to, is wishful thinking- even with a blank check.  The mechanical components aren't the problem, it's the computerized control and sensor suite that's not easy to replicate.  Each one is extensively tested at every stage of manufacture, kinda like spacecraft avionics and communications equipment.  Even Governor Cuomo said they can't be made in 2 weeks, so by his own admission I don't know why he thinks President Trump ordering people to make certain things is going to fix that, especially when major corporations with the manpower, machines, and know-how is already preparing to make them.  Ford, GM, and Chrysler are going to be producing ventilators in the coming weeks, but right now they have to prepare to do that, get the technical data, and program machines to make the parts.  If the government truly does have ventilators stockpiled, not things made in the 1970's that are as likely to kill someone as they are to keep them alive, mind you, then that should be resolved immediately with a phone call from the HHS Secretary.

My neighbor wanting a gun came from her talking to all of her friends, who apparently all had guns, or so she said.  We're fine here.  Nobody is doing much of anything except staying home and every so often you might see someone going for a walk by themselves.

I agree that hoarding tends to lead to waste.  I do know that most people don't buy and sell things for entirely rational / logical reasons, but that's also part of what makes them humans rather than machines.

Good to hear your wife is doing passably well.  I hope you get over your infection.

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#1574 2020-03-25 01:11:21

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 6,161
Website

Re: Politics

kbd512 wrote:

One way to sterilize something is to dump alcohol or bleach or peroxide on it

If you're going to use alcohol, it has to be 70% or greater. That means whisky won't work, it's typically 40%.

I got more interested in alcohol this winter. A couple years ago I noticed one store that sells supplies for home brewing and vinting (beer and wine making), started to offer home distillation equipment. A countertop distiller is about the size of a bread maker. Turns out home distilling is perfectly legal in the province. The catch is you can't sell it, can't trade. If you do, the government owned liquor store will have the police come down on you hard! But home distilling for personal consumption is perfectly allowed. Bought a unit for Christmas. Also got a proof & tralle hydrometer, so I can measure strength of alcohol that comes out. The "head" (first part) was 72% alcohol. What comes out of a countertop distiller has to be blended with water and/or flavour. But I was thinking this could be used for home made hand sanitizer.

Went grocery shopping Monday. Superstore is a big grocery store; their isle of paper products was completely cleaned out of toilet paper and facial tissue. I ran out of tissue. Turned out Walmart set a limit of one package per customer, so still had some. Their largest package had 12 boxes, I only needed a package of 6 boxes, but they still had stock.

Hmm. If you add gelling agent to alcohol, could that be sold? Starch might work. I have a large bag of pea starch from a Mars life support project. Commercial hand sanitizers use carbomers such as polyacrylic acid and polyethelyne glycol. I read hydroxyethylcellulose is used in cosmetics. For my life support project, pea starch in water produced a translucent white milky product. Hydroxyethylcellulose is said to be clear. Considering the wording of the law, it would be safer to give away a recipe for home-made hand sanitizer. Keep me out of trouble.

(Ps. Jello-shots made with 70% alcohol. wink )

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#1575 2020-03-25 08:08:48

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,719

Re: Politics

Kbd512: The ventilators can also be moved from hospitals to the surge site locations which are surplus in areas in other states with low infection where they are idle. That bumps the numbers in the mean time buying time for NY and others.

Robert: the sanitizer was in the motherearth news site. I think I posted those links.

edit:
What do you do when the store shelves are empty and you can not keep traveling around to find another that his it in stock?

DIY How to Make Your Own Hand Sanitizer; Learn how to make your own hand sanitizer as a healthy alternative to commercial sanitizers that are drying, costly and contain 60 to 90 percent alcohol
and Essential Oil Hand Sanitizing Gel; Keep the kids in tip-top shape with an essential hand sanitizing gel that does not use harmful chemicals.

Some stores are putting in limits but there are those that are still being cught buying up everything before that goes into effect and they are getting posted to facebook and shared accross the nation.

trump-kept-saying-it-was-basically-pretty-much-a-cure-woman-whose-husband-died-after-ingesting-chloroquine-warns-the-public-not-to-believe-anything-that-the-president-says

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