Politics

SpaceNut · 2018-01-23 22:23:40

The issue is that that those laws that were "written to protection of everyone, including illegal immigrants" are being clearly ignored as immigrant crossing are leading to deaths when simple water is destroyed by border guards, which all there job is to do is "capture and deport" they the border guards have commited that crime on the illegal people that have chosen to try and cross to a better life.

I will agree that if no illegal immigrants cross, then there can be none to exploitation for any purpose regardless of what crime is committed by those that are doing the exploiting. That said the fact that what is not being gone after is the criminal element is telling.

The fact that we are even talking about illegals and the law says that it might not be correctly written in the first place and that it just might need to be changed to correct for the current times that we live in.

kbd512 · 2018-01-24 00:16:55

SpaceNut,

USBP agents are not murdering illegal immigrants. If any have, then they'll be put in prison or executed, same as any other criminal.

Regarding "the criminal element", we typically have no records on people we've never arrested before when they show up in our country, uninvited. We can't tell who is a real criminal just by looking at them. All illegal aliens are also criminals by legal definition, but some crimes are more offensive than others. If one illegal immigrant stole a loaf of bread to eat and another raped and killed a woman, I can tell you who I would focus my attention on.

The laws regarding illegal immigration are just as correct now as they ever were. You may believe our immigration laws are incorrectly written, but I don't. If our laws are incorrect, then so are the immigration laws of nearly every other sovereign state in the world. You keep talking about your beliefs and feelings, but our immigration laws weren't written to agree with your feelings.

RobertDyck · 2018-01-24 12:02:59

kbd512, you keep blathering about immigration.

I've been an immigrant from Canada, I followed the laws. In December 1996 my employer promised he would renew my contract; my 6-month contract was about to expire, he promised I would be employed for another 3 years. However, he didn't do it. My co-workers said he always does this, that they just keep working without a contract until he gets around to renewing it. But they were Americans, I was Canadian. I was there with a TN work visa (Temporary Nafta). When I entered the US, immigration made me feel as if I pulled something, that they didn't want to give me a work visa at all. So I was worried about renewing it. Rules said I couldn't renew while in the US, that I had to leave the country and re-apply at a border crossing from Canada. I'm sure that's so if there's anything wrong with my application, they don't have to deport me, I would already be out of the US so they would just deny me entry. This made me feel I would have to pack up everything, move back to Canada in preparation for not being allowed to re-enter. I was a skilled computer software developer, my computer career began February 1981. However, my employer didn't renew my contract, and without a firm renewal in writing, I couldn't renew my work visa. INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services) made my work visa expire the same day as my contract, so I was required to leave the country. It was illegal for me to work one minute beyond expiration of my work visa. As contract expiration got closer and closer, I repeatedly talked to my employer to urge him to renew my contract. Finally 2 weeks to the day from contract expiration, I told him this was the last minute, it had to be renewed now. He just repeated "Give me more time." That was it, my contract wasn't renewed. So I gave 2 weeks notice to my landlady, told co-workers that I wasn't renewed, and prepared to leave. My co-workers arranged a farewell lunch the last Friday I was there. I had packed everything that would fit in my car, rented furniture, so had the furniture rental place take it back. Cleaned my apartment, left cleaning supplies for the landlady. Packed everything back in my car and drove home. While driving, a co-worker called my cell phone to say our employer asked where I was. I responded that I told him about the contract renewal, but he didn't renew my contract. Although I explained all this to my employer, he seriously ignored me, expected me to work beyond contract expiration just like all his other employees. But it was illegal for me to do so. And I talked to him about this. So I went back to Canada. In the cell phone conversation, my co-worker said our employer was willing to renew my contract. He had arranged to renew through someone else, not the contracting firm I was hired through. Apparently the new guy agreed to give my boss a kick-back, the firm I was hired through did not. Uh huh! Well, I had a job interview waiting for me in Canada, so just kept driving. My work visa has expired, so US law required me to return to Canada. So I did.

I'm sure that's what you expect. However, that's not what this is about. When the North America was first colonized, indentured servants from Europe were used as farm labourers. They were white poor people, treated as slaves. However, an indentured servant has a contract with an expiration date. When it expired, he was free. Plantation owners found as soon as a worker was skilled and productive, he would leave. Then Europe discovered slaves from Africa. Europe bought slaves from Africa for many years before America discovered them. They were bought as indentured servants as well at first. But then a court case in Virginia tried a black worker who escaped. He had been captured by a black warlord, sold into indentured servitude against his will. But the court in Virginia found the worker guilty of trying to escape, so sentenced him to slavery for the rest of his life. From that day on, America had slavery. The US economy was dependant on slaves. After the Civil War, America had to find a way to work without slaves. They brought in illegal immigrants from South America and Mexico, as low-paid workers to replace slaves. They were treated as slaves, paid very little. Still to this day farm labourers are paid less than federal minimum wage. US economy cannot operate without them. People often talk of illegal immigrants maintaining lawns of rich homes, house work, or other scut work; but farm labour is built right into the economy. The US is dependant on them, has been since the Civil War, so why treat them as criminals?

SpaceNut · 2018-01-24 21:34:53

It appears that we are in Nazi Germany all over as Customs and Border Protection agents demand proof of citizenship from Greyhound bus riders in Florida. ICE asked every passenger for their papers and to prove citizenship. Proof of citizenship is NOT required to ride a bus or to walk anywhere in the US borders.

Customs and Border Protection said its agents routinely patrol transportation hubs “as part of a layered approach to preventing illegal aliens from traveling further into the United States. The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution protects people from arbitrary stops and searches, but federal law allows this to be overlooked in areas within 100 miles of U.S. borders. American Civil Liberties Union indicates that, Border Patrol “cannot pull anyone over without ‘reasonable suspicion’ of an immigration violation or crime,” nor can it search vehicles within that 100-mile zone without a warrant.

Motel 6 faces another suit from employees that regularly turned over guest information to immigration agents to target Latino guests.
Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Arizona as a class-action complaint by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) on behalf of unidentified Latino guests, calls the practice "racially discriminatory, unconstitutional, and violates laws that protect privacy rights and the rights of consumers." The plaintiffs suffered economic damages as well as "emotional distress, depression, anxiety, mental suffering, loss of liberty, fear, and humiliation," the suit states.

Houston and Dallas are the two Texas cities counted among the top five cities with more undocumented immigrants in the United States. New York City is at the top with 1.15 million undocumented immigrant residents, followed by Los Angeles with 1 million, Houston with 575,000, Dallas with 475,000, Miami with about 450,000, and Chicago with 425,000. Still, with less undocumented people.

Trump wants $25 billion for border wall which is insane..but "will build it way under budget." ..granting citizenship to Dreamers after a 10-to-12-year period as part of a comprehensive plan if someone does a great job, they’ve worked hard, it gives incentive to do a great job.

Sen. Cory Gardner, R-Colorado, who has been on the frontlines in the battle to hammer out an immigration deal, wants to reassure "Dreamers" There won't be 'mass deportations' as legal status is set to run out on March 5.

Terraformer · 2018-01-25 04:55:52

They should just build a big beautiful wall, and then they won't have to worry about illegal immigrants moving further into the United States.

EdwardHeisler · 2018-01-25 08:53:17

Terraformer wrote:

They should just build a big beautiful wall, and then they won't have to worry about illegal immigrants moving further into the United States.

Is it true that it will be called "the Great Trump Wall" with his name on it every mile?

China-Built-A-Wall-And-They-Have-Almost-No-Mexicans-Funny-Donald-Trump-Meme-Image.jpg

They have found a way to easily get over Trump's bigley Wall!

71cPfeL6ASL._SX355_.jpg

Terraformer · 2018-01-25 10:01:29

Damn. I knew United were bad, but I didn't think they'd stoop to landing at hidden airfields to avoid their passengers having to go through immigration and customs. An entire parallel infrastructure, set up to cheaply import Mexican labour via air travel. They must have guys at the FAA as well to be able to get away with it.

elderflower · 2018-01-25 11:03:02

China may have very few Mexicans but it has a lot of Mongols, a good number of Turkmen and an awful lot of Manchus. All of these came from North of the Great Wall, two of them as conquerors. The latter have been assimilated with the Han but not the Turkic people as yet. Walls are not the best idea for a long term solution.
How about putting more effort into incentives for the Mexicans to stay home- like moving some factories and jobs south and helping the Mexican police.

Terraformer · 2018-01-25 11:24:48

Moving factories? Won't that put Americans out of work?

If Mexicans want jobs, what's stopping them from creating them, just as America did? Is the American government engaged in ensuring the Mexican government is corrupt and worse than useless? Okay, so maybe the deep state are...

EdwardHeisler · 2018-01-25 11:56:45

Terraformer wrote:

Damn. I knew United were bad, but I didn't think they'd stoop to landing at hidden airfields to avoid their passengers having to go through immigration and customs. .

Rep. John Carter, Republican-Round Rock, Texas pointed out: "The reality is that about 40 percent of the people came in on an airplane, with a legal visa, and just overstayed their visa and have never gone home."

You didn't know that, Terraformer?

If Trumpy builds a "Great Northern Wall, to keep Canadians out could the twin Trumpian walls be used to keep U.S. residents in.

Last edited by EdwardHeisler (2018-01-25 12:00:03)

kbd512 · 2018-01-25 13:22:57

RobDyck,

You and SpaceNut both want our federal government to ignore the law because you don't agree with the law. I don't want any slaves or indentured servants in America. We don't need to import any second class citizens. If Americans want their fruits and vegetables picked or their yard work done, then they can do that themselves.

SpaceNut,

The notion that the US is anything at all like Nazi Germany is truly absurd. You want open borders, but every sovereign nation has enforced borders and deports illegal immigrants. I'm just guessing here, but I'll wager that there are more illegal immigrants in Houston than the entire state of New Hampshire. When you have to live with those people, maybe you'll appreciate what that does to crime rates.

RobertDyck · 2018-01-25 15:19:03

A lot of Americans don't want the US to be Nazi. But just saying it, doesn't make it so. The US is behaving more and more fascist; it's becoming Nazi Germany. Don't forget how the Nazis happened. Germany wasn't always Nazi. In fact, Hitler and his Nazis never won any election. The best he ever did was 30%, and that was during the Great Depression of the 1930s, when citizens of Germany were absolutely panicked to get out from under economic oppression of the Treat of Versailles. Hitler had Nazi brown shirts forcefully remove from any rally anyone who spoke in opposition to him. Those removed were beaten as soon as they were outside. Remind you of someone? The US has slowly become fascist since World War 2. It became rapid under George W. Bush. Obama didn't do much to reverse it. Now there's Trump; he promised to "Make America great again." Hitler promised to "Make Germany great again." Literal translation. Trump did promise to "drain the swamp"; that's good. I'm just not seeing much of that. "The swamp" is fighting back, but seriously, how much is Trump really trying? Now there's the incident that SpaceNut reported. A number of years ago my mother took a road trip with her then boyfriend. One thing they visited was Hoover Dam. A government official demanded ID papers from everyone in every car. That's not within 100 miles of a US border, it's about 245 miles from the coast. Los Angeles appears to be the closest coastline, then add territorial waters. I'm not sure how long ago that was; I think George W. was still president. One criticism of the Soviet Union was lack of freedom, a major difference was Americans could move throughout the country, state to state, without any papers. Now government officials are checking papers.

You told SpaceNut "When you have to live with those people, maybe you'll appreciate what that does to crime rates." From beginning of June 1999 through end of March 2000, I lived in Miami Florida. There was razor wire round the top of many buildings; that looked scary. My apartment was downtown, two buildings and a parkade (Canadian term for a multi-level parking structure). It had a concrete wall around the compound, and an armed guard at the gate. There was far too much prejudice. I heard someone from Argentina complaining about Cubans. Other Hispanics complain about Mexicans. Blacks complain about Hispanics. The worst was one white guy complain about all the non-white immigrants. The only incident I experienced myself was in a convenience store, it happened to be within a block of my apartment. I had to set down something in my hand so I could open a refrigerator door to take something else out. This guy picked up what I set down, handed it to me. I found both my hands full, so had to set it down back where I had put it so I could open the door. He reached down to pick it up again. I put my foot on it and scowled. He stared me in the eyes, then ran away. I just took the 6-pack of beer from the fridge, picked up my frozen dinner, and proceeded to the checkout. He looked quite scared as I lined up behind him at the check-out. Stupid condescending idiot, should mind his own business. This was a white guy. No violence.

SpaceNut · 2018-01-25 19:35:29

I think that the main difference between the northern border and the one you experiences is that on the northern border we are about the same economically on both sides so we appreciate the scenes from both, the slower life style and enjoy wat we have as we work hard to gain it. I would cross the border and return without any reason to want to stay as its the same and does not benifit me to want to stay illegally for financial gain. The southern border that is not the same as for those that come over are coming for a financial gain a better life. My grand mother did live on the southern tip of texas and traveled often to El Paso but thats so long ago and she is not with me any more to tell me more about down there.
So you have a crime problem to which, have you belonged to a neighborhood watch group, called the police on the crimes, report the slum lords, even attended public meeting to rid the area of the issues. As that is what is needed to be done in the cities to get change to happen it works as I lived in the seedy side of the near by city many years ago now. That neighbor hood is much better now for it.

kbd512 · 2018-01-26 13:05:01

Rob Dyck,

Anecdotal stories aside, illegal immigration increases crime rates. US government officials (law enforcement) are checking papers of people entering and exiting the country. There's a difference. The only time I went to Canada, the Canadian Police checked my papers. I take no issue whatsoever with that. Canada is a sovereign nation and the Canadian people have a right to know who I am, what I'm doing in their country, where I'm going, and how long I'm staying. Incidentally, a Canadian Police Officer asked me all of those questions and once they were answered to his satisfaction, he waved me through.

SpaceNut,

There aren't millions of people illegally crossing the norther border and major international criminal gangs are not running guns and drugs through our northern border. If we were having the exact same problems along our norther border instead of our southern border, then I would want a wall on our northern border instead. Regressives are so enamored with their fanciful ideas regarding racism and xenophobia that they refuse to accept or even consider that problems with open borders. I would rather that we didn't have the associated problems and don't care about who does or doesn't look like me. That's a regressive idea and the regressives believe in it, but I don't.

The idea that I don't support immigration or that I am prejudiced against immigrants is facially absurd. I'm married to a first generation immigrant who was born in Saigon, Viet Nam. I want you to tell me why it is that my wife's sister has to wait her turn in line while we pay thousands of dollars to the US federal government for her to immigrate to America while millions of people illegally cross into our country via our southern border. Now we're going to legalize them. Break the law, get rewarded, follow the law, get punished. Where's the justice in that? To me, that's a bunch of BS.

kbd512 · 2018-01-26 14:50:41

SpaceNut wrote:

So you have a crime problem to which, have you belonged to a neighborhood watch group, called the police on the crimes, report the slum lords, even attended public meeting to rid the area of the issues. As that is what is needed to be done in the cities to get change to happen it works as I lived in the seedy side of the near by city many years ago now. That neighbor hood is much better now for it.

SpaceNut,

I do call the Police to report crimes when I see them. I don't belong to the nosy neighbors association, but we do talk to our neighbors and they talk to us. We share information about what goes on where we live, as I would expect any real neighbors to do. Speaking of nosy neighbors, our home owner's association cut down 12 of our trees while I was on a business trip at our expense. On the bright side, there won't be any shade over any future solar panels.

The most recent little incident was when my Silverado was stolen from in front of my house in broad daylight several weeks ago. It would've been paid off this year and we just paid off our Tahoe. I intended to use the extra funds available to buy solar panels and eventually trade in my truck for a downpayment on a Tesla Model 3 that I was hoping would become available this year. Unfortunately for me, my wife had other ideas, so now I drive a Cadillac Escalade. That's what she wanted, rather than what I wanted. Recall that I have children with this woman and have to keep her happy at some level, and want to, because I'd like to stay married. For me, one marriage is enough per lifetime. Women are not always reasonable or logical, but once you have children with them, none of that matters.

We both need vehicles to get to work, but no Model 3's were available for purchase when my truck was stolen. I just needed to hold onto my truck a little longer to get what I really wanted, but someone stole it. Oh well, it was useful while we had it. There's still hope, though. My wife loves electronic gadgets and she wants the front row parking she'd get at work if she drove an electric vehicle. I would've preferred to have a pair of them, but she's big into protecting her children. I've always thought of "safety" as a human brain construct that exists nowhere in the real world, but to other people it's very real.

We won't have money left for that solar system as a result. That Escalade is a very nice car, but it burns gas like there's no tomorrow and it's more money than I would ever spend on car. Fortunately, it's only driven a few miles per day, so the gas lasts about two weeks per fill up. That's still a little crazy to me. I would fill up my Silverado every month or so, sometimes a month and a half. I brought all of that up, but she's about as stubborn as I am once she makes up her mind. That's the law of unintended consequences in action.

RobertDyck · 2018-01-26 15:11:52

Published March 17, 2017

Reported Rates of Delinquent or Criminal Behavior in Previous Year

Declining Violent Crime Rates Amidst Increasing Levels of Immigration, 1990-2014

U.S. State and Federal Prison Populations by Citizenship

Federal Criminal Sentences for Non-Citizens by Offense, 2015

SpaceNut · 2018-01-26 18:16:38

Kbd512 have you gotten any follow up reports on the "Silverado was stolen from in front of my house in broad daylight" as to the progress or even what they have done to locate your vehicle and or lead to capture of the criminal or criminals to did this act? Sound like there is a lack of surveilance cameras and use of them in the area security even here in NH we are fully within the zone that is border patrol system and the security camera's are every where, the use of road blocks unannounced set by border enforcement and state troopers and county sheriff's as well to capture the bad guy's.

I can say that not all car thefts are by illegals as a 16 yr old that had lived up here in NH was only down in Texas for a year and was drawn in by the gangs click to which he did steal a vehicle, was captured and is doing time for this crime.

With the invention of facebook live videos, these give another means capable to capture the crimes to be sent to the police directly or through the anonymous websites that they use for the tips that would lead to arrests.

As for the family visa issue is there a possible avenue for other types such as the H1, H2 to be able to start the process for reuniting the rest of the family. Such as setting up a famiily business in veitnam (foods, handy crafts, textiles ect..) to which you leverage a satelite office to which she would come too here in the states to generate sales?

I know the feelings of the wife and family members with the support that they count on everyday as she has had 3 strokes, fibromyalgia, chronic pain and the 3 sons that are adults with educational, learning, speech issues plus more... I also had to get a gas guzzler for the replacement large enough for the wheel chair and family when the other one died from at the time I thought it was the server cold but during this warm spell I found that the timing belt was gone....

The 12 trees being cut up here would have been about 800 to 1,000 each to be removed by tree specialists , so ya that is quite a savings to you for the solar that you are trying to set up for sure.

Nice charts RobertDyck....

elderflower · 2018-01-27 06:07:13

Well done Robert. That graph supports what I have always suspected. A lot of15 year olds are hooligans. We should lock up all teenagers.:)

Last edited by elderflower (2018-01-27 06:07:48)

GW Johnson · 2018-01-27 11:40:19

Teenager = hooligan, just spelled differently. I know, I once was one, long, long ago, but not in a galaxy far, far away.

So were we all. Remember?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-01-27 11:41:18)

RobertDyck · 2018-01-27 13:03:36

I was a good boy. I wanted to graduate early, but wasn't allowed to. Competed with my best friend for top grades in computer science. He had friends in university tell him stuff that he wouldn't tell me, so he won. He got 93%, I only got 92%, but that still meant we both got A+. But I sucked at English. Never was a hooligan.

GW Johnson · 2018-01-27 14:56:39

Hi Robert:

Well, I suppose there's hooligans and then there's hooligans of a more serious nature. I was the former, being merely a teenaged boy. I've heard it said that boys should be locked in a barrel as they become teens, and fed through the bunghole. When they turn 18, you make a decision: whether to open the barrel or to drive in the bung.

As for computers, well, I predate you considerably. When I was in high school, the only computers were slide rules. Industry had a few such things, card batch input, and about the size of a house, that could do only what most pocket calculators do today. When I went to college, I learned on such devices, and that's what industry still had when I went to work, about the time the very first pocket calculators appeared.

The accountants hated it when the engineers ran a model on "their" mainframe, and complained loudly about the engineers delaying payroll. That's why I designed my first airplane and my first 6 supersonic missiles with a slide rule. Shifted to pencil and paper with calculator, for everything but the impossible fully-3-D problems. That was card batch input to programs I often wrote and debugged myself. My first ramjet cycle analyses were about 2000 cards (a full tray), and my "modern" ones are still around 2000 lines of code.

I say "modern", because they were written recently, but in a dead language (an advanced BASIC) from the DOS days. You can write spaghetti code in languages that old, but not the modern ones, so I never learned them. For my ramjet, motion dynamics, and trajectory work, spaghetti code was required.

GW

PS: During Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, the "computers" in NASA mission control were NOT computers, they were slave-screen teletype communications devices, each slaved to a back room full of people with slide rules. NASA mission control only started using actual computers with the shuttle program.

The most state-of-the-art computers were the avionics in the shuttle itself (only slightly better than the Apollo LEM flight computer), based on the original 8086 chips, and NEVER upgraded. By that program's end, NASA was reduced to buying used 8086 chips on Ebay to keep its shuttles flying at all.

THAT was a big part of the obsolescence and reliability issues that induced the shuttle's retirement, most of the rest being the two lost crews.

PPS: the Mach 3 SR-71/A-12 and the D-21 drone were both designed with slide rules, as were the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo vehicles, and the Mach 6.7 X-15. The only mainframe computer application was the patched-conic figure-8 orbit for Apollo to the moon and return. All the changes to it on any of the flights were figured with slide rules in the back rooms.

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-01-27 15:09:57)

RobertDyck · 2018-01-27 16:22:41

When I went to high school we used punched cards, batch, a modem to a mainframe that served all schools for the city. Stores had TRS80 model 1 with audio cassette tape. University second year also used punched cards, but they got dumb terminals for third year. High school taught Fortran, Cobol and a fictitious assembler language. I studied 1802, 8080 and Z80 with my friend. I also studied digital logic design with my friend. Half way through first year I got a job programming in MBASIC. University taught Pascal. So I'm not that far behind you.

SpaceNut · 2018-01-27 18:03:03

I remember the pdp11 and nova computer thumb switches and paper tapes to load boot strap loader to start the OS. 8" single sided floppies, washing machine sized 10 meg hard drive removable platters, 4 bit processors , trainer pcb for the 8085, 8080, z80 and others did write in debugger code or machine code at bit levels for computer cpu and other pcb cards trouble shoot and repair. College was paper punch cards for fortran, extended basic ect... continued with advance military OS at the time, drawing software picaso, plus others. Debugged power linear and switching circuits to part level analog and digital, was part of a product transfer group of engineering design for a battery backup power supply for the large mainframe computers, Optic CDROM developement lab protyping design long before these existed.

SpaceNut · 2018-01-27 19:48:48

Its funny I was just talking about this technology ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

Now ICE can track license plates, and fears are mounting

They should be using this on finding the criminals that take advantage of peoples vehicles and more as this is just the right tools for that job....

GW Johnson · 2018-01-28 14:10:09

Well, I think ICE has been misbehaving. What they are doing looks like mass deportation, even though they (and the administration) claim it is not.

What REALLY disturbs me is ICE agents asking for papers of riders on buses, with the implication that if the person cannot prove citizenship, they get deported.

American citizens are not required to carry anything proving their citizenship. THAT is what they did in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Legally, the onus is on ICE to prove the person of interest is not a citizen. What they are doing presumes guilt, in violation of our Constitution and laws.

For now, this is mostly restricted to persons of Hispanic heritage. Already some US citizens of Hispanic heritage have been mistakenly deported. I have not seen any consequences to the government for that. And THAT really disturbs me!

The purpose of the Second Amendment is to make the threat of armed revolution credible, specifically so that government will behave better. The government is behaving very badly. Keep your powder dry! I fear you are going to need it.

GW

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