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#26 2014-04-17 21:56:46

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

Terraformer wrote:

However, Person A never gets to go, so there isn't really any point.

You may well be able to grow the economy by creating more people, but *that's not important*. What's important is how much each individual has. It's no use being twice as wealthy if your population is doubled in the process, because you don't get any richer.

Ignoring, of course, the fact that you want to enslave trillions of AI persons...

that's not slavery, its merely taxation and redistribution. Lets say you have one trillion electronic people with a per capita income of $50,000 each and one billion flesh and blood humans that want to go to Alpha Centauri, if each electronic person pays $500 in taxes, that is $500,000 that can be spent on an interstellar ticket per year, so if the journey takes 13 years, that means $6,500,000 can be spent for each person on a one way ticket to Alpha Centauri, then all we got to do is get the travel cost down to $6,500,000 per person and have each electronic person pay 1% of their income in taxes to pay for the trip for each flesh and blood.

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#27 2014-04-18 00:38:30

JoshNH4H
Moderator
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,513
Website

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

I thought you were opposed to redistribution


-Josh

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#28 2014-04-18 20:49:27

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

If we are going to create people in electronic form, we need a reason to do so. The problem that needs to be solved is that we need to expand the economy tremendously in order to have interstellar colonization, all those people we create would be a means to an end, so in order to accomplish that end, a small portion of those created people's income needs to be redirected to finance the expensive interstellar voyages for flesh and bloods, consider it a debt they owe us for being created. 1% is an acceptable redistribution, what contemporary socialists want to do is redistribute in excess of 50% of a rich person's income to the poor for social programs. There is a big difference between 1% and 50%! I don't think we can create real people a fast as we could electronic people, and also flesh and blood humans would consume a lot more resources than the electronic equivalent of them, so we need a means of getting them off the Earth and transporting them to distance planets, including perhaps that Earth like planet orbiting a distant red dwarf 490 light years away. http://news.yahoo.com/found-first-earth … 57158.html
There probably are other Earthlike planets that are more Earthlike than this one, and transporting humans across a distance like 490 light years would be incredibly expensive, so we need a large enough economy to finance it. Today if people want more money they raise taxes, but in the future, we could just create more people paying the same 1% and can raise revenue that way.

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#29 2014-04-19 11:46:47

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,062
Website

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

But why should they be made to pay for you to go to another star system?

You seem to have this idea that it's acceptable to enslave people as long as they aren't organic...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#30 2014-04-19 12:55:52

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

So we don't get overcrowding on Earth. Electronic people don't make much of a crowd as they exist in cyberspace and can travel much more easily than physical objects, they are just information after all.

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#31 2014-04-19 16:20:32

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,062
Website

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

They still need something to run on, and that thing still needs to move if they want to. I wouldn't expect that they would tolerate being killed and copied so that some meatbag can go to another planet.

Of course, this is predicated on the idea of sentient electronic people - not only on the idea that we can create them, but that we would choose to make them sentient. Non-sentient AI is much better, since there are no moral problems with making them work entirely for our benefit, there being no person to be enslaved.

It's also predicated on the idea that our economy will fundamentally remain the same, even through a technological singularity...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#32 2014-04-19 20:33:18

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

Terraformer wrote:

They still need something to run on, and that thing still needs to move if they want to. I wouldn't expect that they would tolerate being killed and copied so that some meatbag can go to another planet.

Of course, this is predicated on the idea of sentient electronic people - not only on the idea that we can create them, but that we would choose to make them sentient. Non-sentient AI is much better, since there are no moral problems with making them work entirely for our benefit, there being no person to be enslaved.

It's also predicated on the idea that our economy will fundamentally remain the same, even through a technological singularity...

For the electronic people their would be no singularity as they are the singularity and amongst themselves the same laws of economics would apply as they would keep on improving themselves so they have marketable skills. The more electronic people, the larger the economy and the more things it can afford to do One trillion people still would not fill the Solar System. Ultimately the population which this Solar System could hold in physical beings could be from one million to one billion times Earth's current population given the amount of material in the Solar System and the amount of energy the Sun radiates. We could arrive at a very large population of electronic people. I think their is an advantage to sentient beings in that the more of them there are, the faster technology will advance, they can figure out a way to get human to distant star systems.

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#33 2014-05-16 23:46:02

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,252

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

Make believe people do not a future make.

Oh, the irony.

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#34 2015-10-12 05:23:29

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Is Alpha Centauri the new "Mars"?

What makes a person is the mind, not the body.

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