Political Potpourri VIII

srmeaney · 2005-08-10 19:25:43

Just caught a docufilm called "hunting of the president"-it covered the political assassination of Hillary's cheating hubby, Bill.

I'm realy surprised the folks on the Starr Commitiee didnt qualify for Treason Charges.

BWhite · 2005-08-10 20:18:32

Interesting analysis on why Iran is rattling the http://www.grokyourworld.com/louisxiv/2 … ml]nuclear saber.

If during the settlement of the Iraqi Constitution, the US pressures the Sunni & Kurd to accept pro-Shia concessions (in order to undermine potential Iraqi Shia support for Iran) Iran says "OK" and agrees to stop enriching uranium.

srmeaney · 2005-08-11 03:41:18

Ah yes, the new map of Iraq.

Iranian Border now at the Tigris. Up next the Syrian Corridor which will cut a nice slice of land to the Gulf of Arabia.

If they are lucky, the Republic of Kurdistan should have some oil. so they will be worth defending.

Mind you, if Iran doesnt stop with its own Shia interests and pursues nuclear weapons to expand control and reunification of Arabia under Shia rule...

clark · 2005-08-11 05:34:40

13,000+ stories just like this one (and counting):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 41_pf.html

The peanut gallery may call the newspaper another "liberal traitor", or the soldier who tells his own story something along the same lines, but I am inlcined to think otherwise.

srmeaney · 2005-08-11 08:46:18

Its not as if anyone is interested in holding government accountable for its crimes against the people in any nation.

Injured vets will continue to speak out and the propahganda guys will brush it off as unimportant.

The Warlord

Down, down the nation goes,
along the dark and shadowed roads.
Forget, forget the lost and old.
Oh how they crossed the Delaware
Paddled cross in dark and cold,
to murder men on Christmas
that a young nation might grow old.

-srmeaney 2005

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-11 11:30:17

I had this dream last night in the brief moments of sleep I managed to get. No, this shouldn't be in "Apropos of Nothing." Content isn't so important, it's that it was just a little off and got me thinking this morning. That subconscious has a way of dredging things up and connecting the dots.

Anyone familiar with the name Stanislav Petrov? Google it. He was driving the RV in the dream, or so the Chinese girl said. :?

So I start looking into some things and a few realizations coalesced. First, I must admit to. . . an error of judgment on my part. I missed something about this Iraq thing.

Yes, yes Bill and Clark, revel in it. Cobra missed a move or two on the array of chessboards before us. Or Go if you prefer.

Anyway, I recall reading a translation of some Soviet military doctrine text when I was a kid. I was a weird kid. Anyway, it repeatedly made the case that the United States, being a bunch of imperialist warmongering capitalist pigs, was planning to attack the Soviet Union at some indefinate point in the future. I'll have to dig up the text again, it went on to explore a multitude of indicators of what stage those preparations were in and thereby determine when the attack would occur, the idea being that he who launches the first strike has the best chance of surviving the exchange.

Those same indicators also work in reverse.

Now I'm not going into some paranoid rant about Russia saying "Fooled you" while they run the hammer and sickle back up the Kremlin flagpole as we wake up to "Red Dawn," but I am saying that modern Russia has near-Soviet capability, a soviet mindset and Soviet leadership. I don't trust this Putin guy, Bush looking into his soul or not.

Then we have China. Sure, we hear that nations which trade don't go to war. Maybe. We'll see how it plays out but they are most certainly preparing for a serious bit of fisticuffs.

So if you're leading a totalitarian state like China or Russia and you need to get your people conditioned to put up with all the crap of a major war that may well involve a nuclear exchange, how do you do it?

First, they need to be fired up about their own country. The Chinese have a resurgent uber-nationalism with thousands of years of history backing it up. Russia has a KGB President doing his damndest to stoke that warm commie glow in the hearts of the Russian people. All that superpower nostalgia seems to run deep. By comparison, we've got plastic flags.

But that's only half of it, you'd also have to make the enemy out to be a viscious warmongering monster. And we've been playing into that. Whether it be missile defense (what for, unless you expect to need it) or invading Iraq, we're helping the propagandists make us the bad guy.

Not that I'm saying we should cut and run, we still have significant interests at stake and we can still win this. But we need to be aware that a near-term victory for us also helps the big bad guys of tomorrow get their people ready for a confrontation. At the same time, it makes some things (like missile defense) much more important to perfect and deploy.

In short, the Jihad thing is a sideshow. An opening act. We're currently number one on the world stage. Russia wants back in the game and China is working its way in as well. To believe that we're all going to be buddies working hand in hand for a better, peaceful world is blithering nonsense. And they both think far more long-term than we do.

The era of large-scale war between nation-states is far from over. Perhaps it's time to examine the world through paranoid Soviet eyes from time to time. And time to look at ourselves in terms of the Sukhomlinov Effect.

At any rate, time for a joke about Russian computers and a toast to Colonel Petrov.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled horse flogging.

Palomar · 2005-08-11 11:52:17

But that's only half of it, you'd also have to make the enemy out to be a viscious warmongering monster. And we've been playing into that. Whether it be missile defense (what for, unless you expect to need it) or invading Iraq, we're helping the propagandists make us the bad guy.
Not that I'm saying we should cut and run, we still have significant interests at stake and we can still win this. But we need to be aware that a near-term victory for us also helps the big bad guys of tomorrow get their people ready for a confrontation. At the same time, it makes some things (like missile defense) much more important to perfect and deploy.
In short, the Jihad thing is a sideshow. An opening act. We're currently number one on the world stage.

*So what do we do at this point in the show?

Submit to and allow all the U.S. haters to destroy us? That's what they want.

I pointed out a long time ago that America is in the unfortunate and undesireable position of being ostracized. I mean that word in its fullest sense: Ostracized. Never a good place to be.

Berating and/or defending incessantly isn't helping. Neither is the Blame Game.

I'll reiterate my continuing to question the validity of the Iraq war.

So.

What do we do now?

How do we prevent a collapse from within? How do we prevent the minor players from ganging up on and doing us in?

--Cindy

P.S.: And again, it's interesting watching the minor players thumping their chests self-righteously, as though they are "above" this, that and the other thing (anything and everything they've damned and condemned the U.S. for). It's easy for them to criticize and point the finger; they have no true power. And if they did, I'm sure we'd found out rather swiftly how "wonderful" and "cultured" they truly are.

Human nature always outs itself. Anywhere you find it. -Anywhere-.

BWhite · 2005-08-11 11:53:28

Cobra, if you are saying that some nihilistic murderous 13th century al Qaeda gangsters are a much smaller threat to that project we call "Western Civilization" than the Chinese and the Russians, then I'd say;

"About effing time!"

Nation-states? I am still fond of Samuel Huntington.

BWhite · 2005-08-11 12:00:19

Cindy, you ask what do we do. We "triage" the threats we face. We forge genuine alliances and we read Thucydides to learn how NOT to treat our allies.

= = =

In a civilizational conflict, the Anglo countries are easily united. US, UK, Aussie-land. After that we need allies. ALLIES not subordinates. Therefore we need genuine diplomacy.

Europe is our BEST potential ally. India is #2 in my opinion.

Agree to disagree with Europe over stuff like 35 hour work weeks and nanny-state health care. Be open to the idea that police work and intelligence ops might be the best way to fight terror.

= = =

DO NOT forget South America.

If we mess with Chinese oil flowing from Iran, they might mess with oil flowing from Venezuela. Chavez inviting in the Chinese military would be a nasty thorn to have to pluck, especially if Saudi oil was also threatened for other reasons.

Therefore job #1 has to be ALTERNATIVE ENERGY!

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-11 12:31:33

Be open to the idea that police work and intelligence ops might be the best way to fight terror.

Only part of it. You often use the analogy of using a hammer to drive a screw. But sometimes it's a nail. I'd rather have the hammer and the screwdriver.

And some pliers, a torch and a roll of duct tape.

Cobra, if you are saying that some nihilistic murderous 13th century al Qaeda gangsters are a much smaller threat to that project we call "Western Civilization" than the Chinese and the Russians, then I'd say;
"About effing time!"

I don't think I ever said the contrary. I'm merely saying now that we need to pay more attention to the bigger threats than we have been due to a more sinister understanding of their planning. Not so much reducing our focus on the current mess but rather keeping an eye further afield at the current "friends" who are likely to be major enemies down the line.

*So what do we do at this point in the show?
Submit to and allow all the U.S. haters to destroy us? That's what they want.

Not at all. The present war on militant Islam must be won. Iraq must be won.

But we also need to know what the other players are up to and we need to prepare for all contingencies. We not only only need to prepare defenses against exploding fundie Muslims but we need to prepare for electronic attacks, economic attacks, and even good old fashioned nuclear missile attacks by Eurasian hordes.

We're too reliant on centralized computer systems and satellites. We need to spread it out, build in more redundancy and have protocols for what happens after losing them. Right now, if the US military loses a few satellites we're in a heap of dung. That can't stand.

Economically we're too spread out in manufacturing and too centralized in exchange. We get way too much (even some military goods) overseas and our entire modern economic structure could be brought to its knees with disruption of some electronic assets. Hit a few satellites or crash a few servers and all hell breaks loose. We need to decentralize and tech-down.

Americans are in general soft, weak, unable to think beyond next week and unwilling to endure even minor hardships. A Chinese General is on record as saying China "will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian." Americans will crack if they lose their air conditioning. We need to toughen up a bit and start thinking long-term. Otherwise start learning Mandarin, but we haven't the attention span for that.

China and Russia are not convinced that the world is going to be all warm and fuzzy from here on. Neither should we. We need to start watching them closely and we need to keep up our military capacity. We need to bulk up the military like so many have argued, but not just to fight some brown guys with a tendency to spontaneously detonate. Perhaps most of all, we really do need a means of intercepting incoming nuclear missiles. At the very least, we need to retain our considerable capacity to deliver them.

No great power ever remained so by becoming a warm and fuzzy friend to everybody. We need to be less dependent on fragile, centralized assets and we need to remain a power capable of scaring the hell out of those who would be our enemies.

I don't want war with China or Russia any more than anyone else, but I won't dismiss the possibility either. They at least need to believe that we can be as hard and mean as they can while understanding how every action we take fits into their efforts. Be nice and friendly when warranted, but don't for a moment fool ourselves into thinking it's the natural order of things or that it will endure.

BWhite · 2005-08-11 12:36:34

A shared understanding of what it means to be "American" might help.

:?

What if this ". . . a means of intercepting incoming nuclear missiles . . ." is not technologically feasible?

Besides, block our oil imports and a missile attack becomes unnecessary.

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-11 12:43:52

A shared understanding of what it means to be "American" might help.

Does "American" mean anything at all anymore?

It isn't cultural, we're taught that diversity is inherently good and that the dominant white anglo cultural foundation is evil.

It isn't the principles of the US Constitution, those have been out the window for a very long time.

Is it just residing within a political boundary? Hardly seems like a powerful binding force.

Is it just some general "feeling" of being American?

Seems to be if we rectify the first two points we'll be a long way toward achieving that shared understanding.

I'm not trying to be all doom-and-gloom either, I firmly believe we can turn this around and really achieve something. But first we have to wake up.

What if this ". . . a means of intercepting incoming nuclear missiles . . ." is not technologically feasible?

It doesn't appear to be. Testing has been improving. Iraqi missiles actually were intercepted in the opening days of the invasion there. It can be done, maybe not 100% but good enough to significantly cut down the damage.

Besides, block our oil imports and a missile attack becomes unnecessary.

So kick up domestic production. We have plenty of oil right here in the good ol' US of A. At least having the capability to produce our own oil on short notice would be prudent.

C M Edwards · 2005-08-11 13:21:11

China and Russia are not convinced that the world is going to be all warm and fuzzy from here on. Neither should we. We need to start watching them closely and we need to keep up our military capacity. We need to bulk up the military like so many have argued, but not just to fight some brown guys with a tendency to spontaneously detonate.

Hold on a moment, I've got a serious dilemma here:

How did the dream with Colonel Petrov end?

(What, like I'm going to argue with that quote?)

srmeaney · 2005-08-11 17:34:41

Therefore job #1 has to be ALTERNATIVE ENERGY!

Priority is not alternative energy. Priority is people. If rationing energy is what that takes, so be it.

Grypd · 2005-08-12 16:37:05

Definition of an Empire,

A large multi ethnic state ruled from a single center. Most often created by cooercion but to be successful must be able to get the various states that form its makeup to want to be part of the Empire.

The Achaemenid Persians where a succesful Empire they managed to keep the various minorities in there Empire reasonably happy. They fell to a military genius and where subsumed.

The Alexandrian Empire was not succesful it managed to cooerce many nations under it but fell apart and disintegrated when the central leadership failed.

The Chinese where a sucessful empire but though a strong central authority dominated and surviving military invasions they eventually disintegrated under internal pressures that weakened them

The Romans again where an empire that was succesful but fell to internal weakening and to being destroyed by outside pressures.

The Spanish Empire was succesful but wracked by internal pressures it collapsed

The British Empire was succesful but weakened after fighting other emerging empires internal pressures made it collapse.

Now America stands at the door of becoming an Empire it has cooerced other ethnic societies into its control but has yet to state it is an Empire. But if you see the trend of the ages you will see that the main cause of the failure of these Empires is always an internal failure and unless conquered by a more powerful force it is this that will make an Empire collapse.

America is an Empire but it has competitors and it has internal pressures. One of the greatest is that it struggles with the term imperialism. Empires are not necassarily a bad thing they spread new inventions and generally ensure there citizens a chance to have a good life. They do bad things too but it is often outweighed by the good they do.

At the moment the USA is not a state that is going to collapse but there are pressures that could do it. It is time for the USA to accept what it is and gird itself to the struggle that is keeping an Empire going.

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-15 07:48:53

America is an Empire but it has competitors and it has internal pressures. One of the greatest is that it struggles with the term imperialism. Empires are not necassarily a bad thing they spread new inventions and generally ensure there citizens a chance to have a good life. They do bad things too but it is often outweighed by the good they do.
At the moment the USA is not a state that is going to collapse but there are pressures that could do it. It is time for the USA to accept what it is and gird itself to the struggle that is keeping an Empire going.

There is wisdom in this. Success has consequences. We have responsibilities. The mantle of Empire has been passed from Britain to us, it's time we acknowledged the reality even if we deny the label.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that stronger cooperation in military, economic and scientific endeavors between the descendents of the British Empire could yield great good. America, Britain, Australia and Canada together to Mars anyone?

BWhite · 2005-08-15 08:25:41

America is an Empire but it has competitors and it has internal pressures. One of the greatest is that it struggles with the term imperialism. Empires are not necassarily a bad thing they spread new inventions and generally ensure there citizens a chance to have a good life. They do bad things too but it is often outweighed by the good they do.
At the moment the USA is not a state that is going to collapse but there are pressures that could do it. It is time for the USA to accept what it is and gird itself to the struggle that is keeping an Empire going.
There is wisdom in this. Success has consequences. We have responsibilities. The mantle of Empire has been passed from Britain to us, it's time we acknowledged the reality even if we deny the label.
Then again, I'm of the opinion that stronger cooperation in military, economic and scientific endeavors between the descendents of the British Empire could yield great good. America, Britain, Australia and Canada together to Mars anyone?

As for this: "America, Britain, Australia and Canada together to Mars anyone?"

An objective that will be far easier to accomplish with a measure of subterfuge that allows the rest of the world to believe they will get to come along, also.

srmeaney · 2005-08-15 12:01:58

Then again, I'm of the opinion that stronger cooperation in military, economic and scientific endeavors between the descendents of the British Empire could yield great good. America, Britain, Australia and Canada together to Mars anyone?

America is going to surrender to the Commonwealth? We humbly accept your joining our World spanning regime.

Grypd · 2005-08-15 13:43:12

Not a commonwealth more like a confederation of independent states. Probably go by the name of the New Anglian Confederation or something like that.

C M Edwards · 2005-08-15 14:53:51

Not a commonwealth more like a confederation of independent states. Probably go by the name of the New Anglian Confederation or something like that.

Sounds like a church. :? No, "Commonwealth" has worked before, it would work again. Canada aside, confederacies have a bad name here in the States, anyway.

There's technically a US Commonwealth already, consisting of the USA proper, Puerto Rico, Guam, and a host of other little islands. I could see us with a few additions, but I'm not sure Tuvalu's worth open warfare at this juncture. Perhaps the British could swap us something?

Grypd · 2005-08-15 17:56:11

There's technically a US Commonwealth already, consisting of the USA proper, Puerto Rico, Guam, and a host of other little islands. I could see us with a few additions, but I'm not sure Tuvalu's worth open warfare at this juncture. Perhaps the British could swap us something?

Well Tuvalu is an independent country now but with the same head of state as Britain. It is part of the commonwealth but so is Canada, Australia and since Commonwealth countries provide very dood basing for the USA not to mention those that are still British colonies. I doubt the USA objects to its Ascencion Island base or even the base on Diego Garcia.

Your joking of course about Tuvalu being poor have you worked out since Tuvalu is the only country with t and v in its name its computer domain name is TV. I know it has already lent the name out for 5 years for $50 million but that deal ends next year and the likehood is that the fight for that domain rights is going to cost the purchaser to lease for the next 5 at least $250 million. One other thing is that Tuvalu has the international prefix code 900 and they are making money from that. For a countries whose population is just over 10000 thats guite good. Of course they are in deep doodah if global warming continues with the likehood of the nation disapearing for all time. But with a growing trust fund to ensure there population can do well heres hoping for the best for them.

ps due to an agreement and Tuvalus location the US is paying to use there waters something to do with the very extensive fishing.

Palomar · 2005-08-15 20:20:16

*The word empire seems outdated or only pertaining to fiction. Of course that's not so, but I never think "I live within an empire" or "My nation is an empire." ::shrugs::

Can only speak for myself, of course: I can't relate to that word. I can't relate gravel roads, blue-ribbon winners at county fairs, tornado alley and cornfields (past residence) OR indigenous pottery, canyons, cacti, coyotes, stucco homes, fields of cotton and chile peppers (current residence) with an empire. Perhaps the issue is my rural-agricultural orientation. Perhaps folks living in NYC or another major metropolitan area feel more in tune with "empire"...

Frankly, the most recent empire to my mind was Great Britain.

I don't feel I'm in denial; rather, I simply can't relate to the word "empire" in regards to my -home- nation.

Just some thoughts.

--Cindy

P.S.: To be honest, in some ways I think I still don't "get" how powerful and influential the U.S. is. Probably I'd have to do some international travel to get an idea of the extent of it all. Forest for the trees, you know...

srmeaney · 2005-08-15 22:25:15

Your joking of course about Tuvalu being poor have you worked out since Tuvalu is the only country with t and v in its name its computer domain name is TV. I know it has already lent the name out for 5 years for $50 million but that deal ends next year and the likehood is that the fight for that domain rights is going to cost the purchaser to lease for the next 5 at least $250 million. One other thing is that Tuvalu has the international prefix code 900 and they are making money from that. For a countries whose population is just over 10000 thats guite good. Of course they are in deep doodah if global warming continues with the likehood of the nation disapearing for all time. But with a growing trust fund to ensure there population can do well heres hoping for the best for them.

I suppose tuvla could get in some private sector investment to build a hightech city of tomorrow (a bigger and better HongKong), build a watertight dome and rename itsself New Atlantis.

A city state with a population capacity of ten million... If theysurrender to becomming the Capital city for the Entire Commonwealth, we could call it New Atlantis. All the member nation flags could have a little fish in the upper left corner.

C M Edwards · 2005-08-16 05:38:31

Well Tuvalu is an independent country now but with the same head of state as Britain. It is part of the commonwealth but so is Canada, Australia and since Commonwealth countries provide very dood basing for the USA not to mention those that are still British colonies. I doubt the USA objects to its Ascencion Island base or even the base on Diego Garcia.

Yeah, but Tuvalu is still part of the British commonwealth. I'm sure they could do it if they wanted. I wonder what they would take for Scotland? I'd offer Louisiana, but it's sinking just like Tuvalu... Texas maybe?

Shaun Barrett · 2005-08-16 05:48:46

Cindy:-

*The word empire seems outdated or only pertaining to fiction. Of course that's not so, but I never think "I live within an empire" or "My nation is an empire." ::shrugs::
Can only speak for myself, of course: I can't relate to that word. I can't relate gravel roads, blue-ribbon winners at county fairs, tornado alley and cornfields (past residence) OR indigenous pottery, canyons, cacti, coyotes, stucco homes, fields of cotton and chile peppers (current residence) with an empire. Perhaps the issue is my rural-agricultural orientation. Perhaps folks living in NYC or another major metropolitan area feel more in tune with "empire"...
Frankly, the most recent empire to my mind was Great Britain.
I don't feel I'm in denial; rather, I simply can't relate to the word "empire" in regards to my -home- nation.
Just some thoughts.
--Cindy
P.S.: To be honest, in some ways I think I still don't "get" how powerful and influential the U.S. is. Probably I'd have to do some international travel to get an idea of the extent of it all. Forest for the trees, you know...

Interesting thoughts.
I happen to know for a fact that the average citizen in Britain in the closing days of Empire didn't see much of the splendour and wealth of that empire either. I don't think the average person ever does.

But then I don't see America as an 'empire' in the traditional sense anyhow. Countries like Britain walked into numerous countries all over the world, with varying degrees of military force, and declared those countries provinces .. possessions of the Crown.
-- The U.S.A has rarely done things in that way. She probably didn't have to. America's claim to 'Empire' is, in my view, very largely economic; her influence being much more commercial than military.

Of course, there are those who will say that a country throwing its financial weight around is just as dangerous and overbearing as a country unashamedly annexing other countries by military force. And perhaps that's correct.
-- But I can think of several historical empires I'd happily flee from, into the arms of today's American 'Empire' - if that's what you want to call it.

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