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#176 2012-10-16 05:53:04

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT


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#177 2012-10-16 07:48:21

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

This is a link to the bright object that will be tested. I noticed upon landing some quartz like objects. I have no idea how quartz forms or if this is a candidate. Time to step-up rock guys.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl-raw-images … 1_DXXX.jpg

Vincent


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#178 2012-10-16 09:21:13

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Once upon a time I was on Bad Astronomy Today's forum and said, "Things are the same unless they are different." They sure did have a good time with that statement. This image is witness to it. Unlike the fines on our moon that we know are void of moisture and the cohesive ability of talc is compression.  These coagulants in these images are, "dirt clogs. " No compression involved. As a matter of "fact," decompression or dispersion is involved. Love those "facts."

How is this possible? Sodium can extract water vapor from the atmosphere. There is an undershoot at nocturnal saturation, with ground temperature. (Image below) In other words the ground temperatures are colder than the air. If humilities are at 100% at max cooling as observations have said, then the negative thermal enteria  would do the trick. Salts the anti-freeze, diurnal heating the catalyst.

Love it.

8093889780_dde19074d3.jpg
0067MH0077001000E2_DXXX by dfrank39, on Flickr

Humidity Ref: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/a … t99446.htm

Water extraction from atmosphere with salt antifreeze agent Ref: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/269474

Image:

2615735282_3de6d7c9b7.jpg
ice on leg by dfrank39, on Flickr

Undershoot thermal diagram NASA Ref:

8093954875_d7d7884f14.jpg
undershoot by dfrank39, on Flickr

Vincent

Last edited by Vincent (2012-10-16 09:44:59)


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#179 2012-10-18 11:49:45

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

3D of trench...

8100429068_ec170c25e1.jpg
0066MH0075001000E2_DXXX_s-c1 by hortonheardawho, on Flickr

Last edited by Vincent (2012-10-18 11:50:22)


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#180 2012-10-22 08:43:59

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Animation of false color enhanced image of vibration and dump of scoop 4. Must view original size to see animation, from Hort. Geeze, they better have a dang good reason to hold us hostage for two weeks in that pile of dust.

Vincent

8112510695_3309e5892c.jpg
0074ML0501000000E1_DXXX_G+4xd_a2-c1 by hortonheardawho, on Flickr


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#181 2012-10-25 10:54:14

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Curiosity continues to be held hostage by geologist. They have done soil samples and we should live long enough to get the results.

This is "a rock."


8119653269_022fe1fe6e.jpg
MSL Curiosity on Mars. Sol 76 by txNotAlien, on Flickr


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#182 2012-10-25 16:43:11

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Must view original size to see animation....From hort

8122093788_aa7dcbf8d7.jpg
0070-0077ML_4A-regSR-c1 by hortonheardawho, on Flickr


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#183 2012-10-25 19:22:00

louis
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Vincent wrote:

Curiosity continues to be held hostage by geologist. They have done soil samples and we should live long enough to get the results.

This is "a rock."


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8336/8119653269_022fe1fe6e.jpg
MSL Curiosity on Mars. Sol 76 by txNotAlien, on Flickr

I don't agree with everything you say Vincent, but I agree with this! smile


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#184 2012-10-27 08:21:32

GW Johnson
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Those are some very odd-looking rocks in post 181 just above.  I'd swear they look like lakebottom black mudstone that's been broken up and eroded in some fashion.  Wind erosion produces really odd patterns and textures like that. 

I see that kind of black lakebottom ooze in farm tanks and small lakes here.  It is definitely organic life-produced detritus here.  There's usually too much algae in those bodies.  That black ooze bottom material really stinks.  A lot of (but not all) the organics came from the rear ends of cows.   

GW


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#185 2012-10-27 10:22:50

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Err... Louis. I don't agree with everything I say either. That's why I delete it. Interesting analysis GW.

Curiosity sol 0071 0072 Chemcam Mastcam 3D of peculiar rock in the Glenelg area of Gale crater, Mars.

8126533984_e0e68eeb35.jpg
0072MR0559000000E3_DXXX_a-regA-CR0_403882608EDR_F0050104CCAM03072M_ffsky_s by hortonheardawho, on Flickr

Last edited by Vincent (2012-10-27 14:16:56)


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#186 2012-10-30 09:37:26

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

As the storm moves NW, let's talk Mars. News conference 2:30 EDT today. Will they throw us a bone? Let's hope so.....Anyone know how to dry carpet?.......

Curiosity sol 0082 MAHLI false color cross-eyed 3D of rock in the Glenelg area of Gale crater, Mars. From Hort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUK1fWWR84E

Vincent

8135769095_97b03415e7.jpg
0082MH0096001003E1_DXXX_s-c1_a by hortonheardawho, on Flickr

Last edited by Vincent (2012-10-30 09:43:54)


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#187 2012-11-02 09:27:44

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA will host a media teleconference at 10 a.m. PDT (1 p.m. EDT) on Friday, Nov. 2, to provide an update on Curiosity's studies of the Martian atmosphere.

The Mars Science Laboratory Project and its Curiosity rover are about three months into a two-year prime mission to investigate whether conditions in Mars' Gale Crater may have been favorable for microbial life.

Audio and visuals of the event will be streamed live online at: http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio and http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl .

Visuals will be available at the start of the event at: http://go.nasa.gov/curiositytelecon .

For information about NASA's Curiosity mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mars and http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl .

  DC Agle / Guy Webster 818-354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
agle@jpl.nasa.gov / guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
Dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov


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#188 2012-11-02 11:52:55

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Sounds like they are in denial, with methane readings. They reduced them to nothing. Seasonal plumes suggest biological vs. geological.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/ … thane.html


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#189 2012-11-05 10:19:24

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

This was posted on UMSF. No sol ref for ChemCam image. Eye candy for the Bio guys no doubt...... Reach for the sun.....

8157983024_c1c815d25f.jpg
CR0_1 by dfrank39, on Flickr


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#190 2012-11-05 10:49:20

GW Johnson
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Those definitely look like some kind of mudstones,  heavily eroded by wind.  Is there any data on composition?

GW


GW Johnson
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#191 2012-11-05 11:57:50

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Tell me about the green bother. That is the data comparision. See the green......Good to have you here GW.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG07WSu7Q9w


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#192 2012-11-06 12:41:23

RGClark
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Vincent wrote:

This was posted on UMSF. No sol ref for ChemCam image. Eye candy for the Bio guys no doubt...... Reach for the sun.....

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7122/8157983024_c1c815d25f.jpg
CR0_1 by dfrank39, on Flickr

Thanks for that. Great pic.

   Bob Clark


Nanotechnology now can produce the space elevator and private orbital launchers. It now also makes possible the long desired 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nano … 13319568#/

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#193 2012-11-06 12:43:53

RGClark
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

I missed this story when it came out last month:

Weather On Mars Surprisingly Warm, Curiosity Rover Finds.
by SPACE.com Staff
Date: 01 October 2012 Time: 07:00 AM ET

"If this warm trend carries on into summer, we might even be able to foresee temperatures in the 20s [Celsius], and that would be really exciting from a habitability point of view," Gómez said. "In the daytimes, we could see temperatures high enough for liquid water on a regular basis. But it’s too soon to tell whether that will happen or whether these warm temperatures are just a blip.”

http://www.space.com/17828-mars-weather … overy.html


  Bob Clark


Nanotechnology now can produce the space elevator and private orbital launchers. It now also makes possible the long desired 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:
Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nano … 13319568#/

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#194 2012-11-06 15:54:55

GW Johnson
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

I've seen some very strange-looking photos of rocks posted here.  Definitely not anything resembling igneous stuff-as-I-know-it.  But,  I am not a geologist.  Mudstone-looking items make me think of lakes,  of course,  or at least streams.  Definitely persistent over years to lay down what must have been layers of the stuff.  Which in turn suggests some kind of seasonality to the sedimentation process.  That's what happens here,  anyway. 

Dunno about methane-or-not.  It was my understanding from the detection-from-orbit stuff that the sources were both highly localized and transient.  Maybe irregularly-transient.  If my understanding of those prior detections is correct,  then having Curiosity find nothing quickly means very little.  It'll have to search long and hard to find anything,  statistically speaking. 

Warmer-than-expected weather on Mars is quite interesting.  If it gets significantly above 32F / 0 C,  then some ice somewhere is going to melt.  The air pressure is too low for liquid water to be anything but a brief transient,  but the measurable absolute humidity should rise sharply,  in localized zones on a transient basis.  Might even see frost or snow transients,  who knows?

To keep the water stable for anything but a brief transient,  the water vapor partial pressure (only a small piece of the total air pressure!) has to exceed 6.1 mbar above a free liquid surface at 0 C.  If the liquid is warmer,  the required vapor (partial) pressure is even higher,  right out of the standard steam tables.  For ice sublimation,  the 6.1 mbar at 0 C vapor pressure requirement decreases as the ice temperature decreases,  again,  right out of the standard tables. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2012-11-06 15:59:38)


GW Johnson
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#195 2012-11-29 21:22:49

bobunf
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Do keep in mind that it is not only the Curiosity observations, but also the Mars Express and ground based observations that are all compatible with zero methane.  All three are also compatible with a non-biological origin for the methane. 

It is not hard to imagine a geologic process taking place on Mars that would emit some methane periodically or continuously. 

I wouldn't get your hopes up on, at most, a trace amount of methane which could easily have a non-biological origin.

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#196 2012-12-01 09:56:08

GW Johnson
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Myself,  I'm less worried about methane detection-or-not,  and more worried about the fossilized presence of organic compounds in some of the obviously-water-deposited mudstones and conglomerates.  Surface samples probably have had the organics destroyed by the harsh environment,  but subsurface samples could yield results,  especially those not just buried by transient dust.  They gotta dig in the right places.  That's why they picked Gale Crater.  It'll take a while.

The recent "noise" in the news about something "for the history books",  with the subsequent downplaying,  sounds like another Allan Hills meteorite microbe fossil thing.  I'd bet they found something,  maybe some organics,  but haven't been able to confirm it yet at an incontrovertible level of proof.  So,  rather than repeat the debacle they went through over the meteor fossil incident,  the managers have quashed the initial enthusiasm that leaked out from the actual researchers.  But,  they did find something.  It will be very interesting to hear what it really is. 

BTW,  I still think the traces in the Allan Hills meteorite might well have been microbe fossils.  I thought those two NASA researchers were badly treated by the science establishment back then. 

If Curiosity did find organics,  and they can duplicate and prove it,  then we may have to revise our history books regarding the Viking results.  I rather doubt Viking actually found life that close to the surface.  Probably just organics in some kind of an activated chemical state,  made so by the harsh environment.  But it would not surprise me to learn someday that there really is active microbial life deeper underground.  It would be a remnant from much earlier times when the climate was better on Mars,  and microbial life was all over the surface,  leaving fossil organic traces everywhere. 

GW


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#197 2013-01-01 17:33:25

Koeng
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Where did everyone go hmm

I loved the pictures.

-Koeng


Lets terraform today!

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#198 2013-01-02 10:42:02

GW Johnson
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

Hi Koeng,  Happy New Year!

I dunno where everyone went.  Traveling for the holidays,  I guess.

Updating what I said previously:  it appears Curiosity found some chlorinated organics.  This is just about what one would expect with perchlorates interacting with organics in the soil under harsh UV and in near-vacuum conditions.  They (NASA) are still trying to figure out where the organics and the chlorine came from "for sure",  a response to the Allan Hills meteorite debacle several years ago.  Once that is done and they know "for sure" this stuff is of Martian origin (and I think that is what they will eventually find),  then they will finally understand what the Viking probes actually found "for sure". 

My best guess is that the organics in the soil really were mostly biologic in origin,  but have been modified by the action of perchlorate (and other) evaporite salts from loss of surface water bodies around 3 billion years ago.  Those water bodies acidified and salted-up as they evaporated away. 

GW


GW Johnson
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#199 2013-03-31 15:26:11

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT

I don't know where everyone else went but I get tired sometime. I guess the other guys do as well. We all have ideologies and seek witness to them. We perceive, not see, through the lens of them. We will see the witnesses we call fourth. This is not vision.

Organics have been found in every sample that they no longer sterilize. The discovery of perchlorates have moved us forward. Tip of the hat to Phoenix.

In the end Levin's experiment on Viking will prove the existence of microorganisms. This simply means that life is universal and the Universe is life. The self we hold so dear is nothing more than a complex protein in the cosmic scheme.

Evolution will move from biological to nonbiological. Consciousness is experienced with memory. We create as we were created, maybe not in form, but, liken to. We will create in our likeness as our creator created in His. We are His Son......

The really cool pictures have been released. The question of whether Mars was every suitable for simple life has been answered. The presence of organics is no longer in question. They have more images no doubt, we should live long enough to see them, I hope.

Vincent

Last edited by Vincent (2013-03-31 15:43:23)


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#200 2013-03-31 16:17:46

Vincent
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Re: Official MSL / Curiosity Rover Thread | Aug 5, 2012 10:31 p.m. PT


Argument expected.
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-Dana Johnson

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