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#101 2008-05-27 11:01:14

Rune
Banned
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2008-05-22
Posts: 191

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

Unless Israel treats Arabs like decent human beings l who can't be bought off with paltry offerings they will never find peace.

The thing is I'm not sure peace is strategically interesting for Israel. As a country with little population an a strong military, and with few if any friends on the region, it is entirely understandable that they are so agressive.

After all, a continued peace would mean their economic asimilitation by their more popoulus and resource-rich arabic neighbours. Destroying their infrastructure periodically, as cruel as it sounds, is their best long-shot plan. Not that it isn't cruel, or wrong, it's just economically sound. Israel cannot continue to be a democratic jew state if it accepts an islamic majority of citizens...


Rune. Economics is another name for the driving force of the universe.

Why should it accept an islamic majority of citizens anymore than we should accept a hispanic majority of illegal aliens from Mexico?
The problem is you can have either an islamic country or a democracy, not both. Muslims have a bad habit of imposing their will, religion, and customs on all minorities, they give muslims special status, special rights that others don't have, and woe to the fellow that insults Islam, or tries to convert a Muslim to a different religion, because the barbaric practise of head-chopping, stoning, or whiplashing may be employed to punish those transgressors. I think people in a more liberal Israel may have some qualms about letting in hordes of Muslims who will vote to change laws with their majority status and trample on many of their hard won freedoms of free speech, freedom of the Press, freedom of religion, seperation of church and state, and equality between men and women under the law. Muslims tend to be very pious, and their religion tells them that the supream law is derived from the will of Allah and the Koran and that anyone who opposes them is an infidel. I think its perfectly understandable that Israelis wouldn't want hordes of Muslims migrating to or "returning" to their country. One of the reasons they talk about ceding the West Bank and Gaza is so there will be places to put all the aggreived Muslims so they can live in their seperate societies that won't interfere with the democracy of Israel. So far though all Muslims know how to do is take, and there is no give in them. Israel may eventually grow tied of being missiled from Gaza and may simply choose to expel the entire population there when they feel they've had enough. Wouldn't you after all? Even Europe has found it Muslim populations difficult to live with, how can they expect Israel to do something they would not?

Wow, wow, woooow!!! Hold on a minute. There ARE islamic democracies. Turkey, for one, is about to enter the EU. Granted, there are problems of integration (as with every minority everywhere) and many non-democratic islamic coutries out there. But it is not impossible for an islamic state to be democratic, or secular for that matter. Any affirmation to the contrary is just misinformed.


Rune. What would be tricky is democratic jew state with an islamic majority.


In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a "bad move"

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#102 2008-05-27 12:51:08

Gregori
Member
From: Baile Atha Cliath, Eireann
Registered: 2008-01-13
Posts: 297

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

wait, isn't this thread about Iran and space?


On that note:

Iran has done a bunch of very impressive stuff developing its own nuclear power aswell as satellite and missile lauching capabilities.

Most of this is to improve military and defence capabilities and doesn't really apply to space exploration atm.. I could see them getting into the commericial launch market at some point with their technology. In a few decades, they could play a role in space exploration. Nearly all other space exploration programs started of as millitary ventures. Iran could co-operate with other nations or entities in space, providing lauch technology etc etc.

I don't really approve of Iran's goverment or the human rights record, but that doesn't mean I think they should be isolated or threatened. Its slightly hyprocritical of the West considering their dealings with Saudi Arabia, an equally aweful regime.

I think we can have more of a positive influence on Iran and its public through openess and economic co-operation. Threats will just cause the country to become insular and rally behind its leadership. We should be heavily supporting pro-democracy groups in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt..

I think we can have a positive influence on Iran, just like we are now having a positive influence on Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think Iran has a very dangerous government, I'd hate to have to subdue Iran after it has aquired nuclear weapons and has attacked us with them! I don't want to have a Cold War and 75 years of b**s**t with them either. What I really find discouraging after the end of the Cold War is the return of the "Reality Bubbles" that many leftwing types have constructed around their heads. For a time after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were forced to confront reality, after their "Planet Soviet" had collapsed and their "reality bubbles" had popped. After all those Soviet plots were reveals and Soviet villany unearthed, many left wing professors struggled with the situation and on how to proceed from there. Later on they got MoveOn.org and they managed to weave their own tale of American villany and their favorite Antichrist George W. Bush, who must be "evil" because they say so. The leftwing media has waisted no time in putting the "White Hat" on Iran and the "Black Hat" on the United States.

turning countries into war zones isn't being a positive influence. Making them the most dangerous places on earth isn't either. the majority of Iraqi's support attacks on us soldiers because of the occupation and hell they've brought to the country. 

Iran isn't very likely to attack with a nuclear weapon because they would be wiped off the map by the counterstrike. Owning a nuclear weapon however deters from being attacked by the US or Israel.

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#103 2008-05-27 22:03:10

Commodore
Member
From: Upstate NY, USA
Registered: 2004-07-25
Posts: 1,021

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

I would have hoped that after 40 years of living under the threat of mutually assured destruction, the world would go to great lengths to avoid sliding back into that situation.


"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

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#104 2008-05-28 16:26:59

Stormrage
Member
From: United Kingdom, Europe
Registered: 2005-06-25
Posts: 274

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

Why should it accept an islamic majority of citizens anymore than we should accept a hispanic majority of illegal aliens from Mexico?

Mexicans are from Mexico.

The problem is you can have either an islamic country or a democracy, not both. Muslims have a bad habit of imposing their will, religion, and customs on all minorities, they give muslims special status, special rights that others don't have, and woe to the fellow that insults Islam, or tries to convert a Muslim to a different religion, because the barbaric practise of head-chopping, stoning, or whiplashing may be employed to punish those transgressors.

Where did you get that from? I need hardcore facts not opinions.

I think people in a more liberal Israel

Liberal Israel? Is that an another joke of yours?


may have some qualms about letting in hordes of Muslims

You don't even hide your hatred for muslims. So now we know you hate Arabs and Muslims. Is there anybody else you hate that you would like to tell us now?


who will vote to change laws with their majority status and trample on many of their hard won freedoms of free speech, freedom of the Press, freedom of religion, seperation of church and state, and equality between men and women under the law.

Muslims tend to be very pious, and their religion tells them that the supream law is derived from the will of Allah and the Koran and that anyone who opposes them is an infidel.

First of all. If you believe in a religion where Gods word isn't the ultimate. I think it's a big sign that you need to stop believing in that faith.

I think its perfectly understandable that Israelis wouldn't want hordes of Muslims migrating to or "returning" to their country. One of the reasons they talk about ceding the West Bank and Gaza is so there will be places to put all the aggreived Muslims so they can live in their seperate societies that won't interfere with the democracy of Israel. So far though all Muslims know how to do is take, and there is no give in them. Israel may eventually grow tied of being missiled from Gaza and may simply choose to expel the entire population there when they feel they've had enough. Wouldn't you after all? Even Europe has found it Muslim populations difficult to live with, how can they expect Israel to do something they would not?

Seriously dude. You really need to stop with your crazy ideas. Israel can never and will never "expell" (a nice word for ethnic cleansing) Palestinians. In fact during 1948 their biggest tactic was to scare Arabs away. They didn't force the Arabs they just made them think that they will be killed or raped. Also the reason why Israel doesn't want Palestinians in Israel is because it wants Israel to be a Jewish country. They don't want to live in a Jewish-Arab country, They want a Jewish country where the Jews are the ones with political and economical power.

I think we can have a positive influence on Iran, just like we are now having a positive influence on Iraq and Afghanistan.

American influence in Iran died when USA and the UK got rid of a democratically elected government and put in a mass murdering dictator.  Try explaining that to the people you want on your side in that country.


I think Iran has a very dangerous government, I'd hate to have to subdue Iran after it has aquired nuclear weapons and has attacked us with them! I don't want to have a Cold War and 75 years of b**s**t with them either. What I really find discouraging after the end of the Cold War is the return of the "Reality Bubbles" that many leftwing types have constructed around their heads. For a time after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were forced to confront reality, after their "Planet Soviet" had collapsed and their "reality bubbles" had popped. After all those Soviet plots were reveals and Soviet villany unearthed, many left wing professors struggled with the situation and on how to proceed from there. Later on they got MoveOn.org and they managed to weave their own tale of American villany and their favorite Antichrist George W. Bush, who must be "evil" because they say so. The leftwing media has waisted no time in putting the "White Hat" on Iran and the "Black Hat" on the United States.

Oh god no. You sir are a nut full stop. You need to go to a library and read some books that haven't been written by right wing nutters. Unless your to busy playing the banjo bubba.

I would have hoped that after 40 years of living under the threat of mutually assured destruction, the world would go to great lengths to avoid sliding back into that situation.

It doesn't help when USA,The UK and France are interfering with other countries that ALWAYS leads to deaths of innocent civilians.  The worst thing about it is that the vast majority of civilians in the named countries are ignorant. There are people like Tom who put their head in the sand and believe that their government is pure has snow  and there are others who just can't be bothered to check up whats going in the world because their lives are to busy.


"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."

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#105 2012-10-17 16:04:42

falkor
Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 2004-08-21
Posts: 112

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

The worst thing about it is that the vast majority of civilians in the named countries are ignorant

this has always been the case throughout history and in the case of Iran what can their civilians do anyway? they did not even vote that President IN, he falsified the elections to stay in power! where do they go from there? hmm

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#106 2012-10-28 23:53:12

bobunf
Member
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: 2005-11-21
Posts: 223

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

Talk about raising the dead.  The last post was 4-1/2 years ago.  The last two posters haven't been around since May of 2008.  Falkor, you're writing to the dead and gone.

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#107 2021-08-08 11:25:24

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 1,267

Re: Did Iran become a player in space ?

Turkish mohammedans, Iranian islamists, Saudi jihadis, Pakistani radicals, near the moslim world is Greece, India, Israel, Lebanon and much of Africa. ...

...launch related?
https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/sta … 8821059589

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