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#51 2007-06-18 21:15:55

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Yup sure does and that small amount of change was inpart due to the efforts of another moon mars blitz.

There have been a few Moon -Mars Blitz as I recall since the announcement of the vision and with each it has been about making sure the congress and the House do the right thing to fund Nasa to the fullest that was recommended.

This time is no different Space Exploration Alliance Moon-Mars Blitz report

The Space Exploration Alliance is planning to run another Blitz in February 2008

Currently funds are being added but then some existing are being shuffled around to make up for other short falls...

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#52 2007-06-22 03:44:31

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

MARS IS UNDER ATTACK!

Last week, the House Appropriations Subcommittee for Commerce, Justice, and Science recommended an increase of over $280 million above the requested level for NASA. However, within this budget markup, there is language that would prevent work on programs devoted to humans to Mars. According to a House Appropriations Committee press release, the markup language states that NASA cannot pursue “development or demonstration activity related exclusively to Human Exploration of Mars. NASA has too much on its plate already, and the President is welcome to include adequate funding for the Human Mars Initiative in a budget amendment or subsequent year funding requests." THIS ANTI-MARS LANGUAGE MUST BE REMOVED! Otherwise, the program may turn into MOON ONLY program. We can't let that happen.

We need your help to tell Congress to remove the anti-Mars language from the budget. Tell your elected officials that Mars is a VITAL part of NASA’s new direction. How can you do that? The Mars Society is running two programs to help you get your message to Congress.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#53 2007-06-27 00:43:27

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Science appropriations Subcommittee Chairwoman Barbara A. Mikulski statement - 26 Jun 2007

The bill also includes increased funding for CJS science agencies, including $17.5 billion for NASA, fully funding the President’s request for Space Shuttle operations ($4 billion) and Space Station operations ($2.2 billion).

This is about $100 million under the House appropriation and leaves the shortfall in Exploration. ISS, STS, Science and Aeronautics all get fully funded or even more.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#54 2007-06-27 19:24:18

X
Member
From: Alabama
Registered: 2007-02-02
Posts: 134

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

How does that happen?  I know there's just a tiny group of folks actively supporting manned space flight, but surely there are more of us than folks who support NASA's pure science stuff?

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#55 2007-06-28 08:12:17

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,863

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

I suspect that as much as manned flight can attract the news the fact that with the white elephants like the shuttle and the ISS taking such a percentage of the funds and that NASA has over 55 other missions on the go then something has to give.

And the manned side is a very easy target. It at the bottom line cannot really say it is contributing to great scientific knowledge.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#56 2007-06-28 08:30:39

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Human spaceflight gets about 60% of NASA's budget and science has about 30%. STS and ISS have powerful lobbies to keep them fully funded but as they have the biggest share of the funding they are the biggest targets. Constellation (Ares/Orion) are building their own lobby but have to compete with everyone else.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#57 2007-06-28 11:13:42

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Senate subcommittees approve 2008 funds - 27 Jun 2007

Unlike the House bill, the Senate version does not include language blocking NASA from pursuing exploration of Mars.
<snip>
• $17.5 billion for NASA

Some good news at last!


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#58 2007-06-28 16:55:56

RobS
Member
From: South Bend, IN
Registered: 2002-01-15
Posts: 1,701
Website

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

For those who are not members of the Mars Society: The Mars Society has a nify web-based system that lets you send a fax to your Congressional representatives. You enter your name and address and write your message, then click and the information is converted into letter form and faxed to your representatives. Very nice and quick. They have asked people to write about the restrictive House language.

                      -- RobS

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#59 2007-06-30 04:43:57

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Senate appropriation press release (PDF) - 28 Jun 2007

The bill provides $17.46 billion for NASA, $1.2 billion above FY 2007 and $150 million above the President’s budget request. The bill fully funds the President’s budget request for Space Shuttle operations ($4 billion) and Space Station operations ($2.2 billion). The bill also provides: the full President’s budget request of $3.9 billion for development of the next generation Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV, called Ares) and Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV, called Orion), $5.66 billion for science; and $554 million for aeronautics research.

At last full funding for Exploration! (but still not enough to restore the 2014 operational date for Orion)


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#60 2007-06-30 19:52:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

What ever happened to the volunteering spirit to put forth effort without looking for their hands to be filled with gold...The desire to achieve for the betterment man and of having a job that needs your talents to make it happen....

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#61 2007-07-02 05:20:54

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Putting NASA’s budget in perspective - 2 Jul 2007

The naysayers often speak as if the country’s social problems would be solved if only we took the money given to NASA and devoted it to social programs. Does anyone seriously believe that increasing spending on social programs from $1.581 trillion to $1.597 trillion would make any appreciable difference?

Nicely argued article by Jeff Brooks.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#62 2007-07-02 07:49:14

ven_aura
Member
From: Indiana
Registered: 2007-06-18
Posts: 7

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

That's a very nice article there, cIclops.

You'd think by now people would figure out throwing money at social problems hasn't really been working.

What ever happened to the volunteering spirit to put forth effort without looking for their hands to be filled with gold...The desire to achieve for the betterment man and of having a job that needs your talents to make it happen....

And not to sound cynical, but when was this apparent golden age? There hasn't been a time since the before Wrights that invention hasn't been parallel with monetary gain. And even then, inventors were always looking for ways to sell their products.


"Never underestimate the power of a junior high science teacher."

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#63 2007-07-02 21:09:38

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Apollo, Saturn V during the 60's into the early 70's volunteering spirit was still alive and it was not about money. Family was still first even if they were not rich, you gave of your time and not money.

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#64 2007-07-02 23:04:27

noosfractal
Member
From: Biosphere 1
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 824
Website

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Apollo, Saturn V during the 60's into the early 70's volunteering spirit was still alive and it was not about money. Family was still first even if they were not rich, you gave of your time and not money.

I think the general consensus (in the West, at least) is that there is less traditional community, but greater individual liberty, particularly for minorities.  Whether you think that is a good thing kinda depends on which you value most at a particular point in time. 

I don't think people are less generous, but they generally have less unscheduled time.  There has certainly been a professionalization of nonprofit organizations so that membership consists mainly of mailing a check every few months to a team of policy entrepreneurs (all with Masters degrees or first class social connections).  Though their power has been moderated recently by the ability for the grassroots to give a lot more public feedback in internet forums.

but, um, anyway ... I assumed your posting was just a random "kids these days, sigh."  Was there an actual connection to the NASA budget?  Should they "do more with less" by engaging volunteers?


Fan of Red Oasis

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#65 2007-07-03 08:27:33

ven_aura
Member
From: Indiana
Registered: 2007-06-18
Posts: 7

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Volunteer spirit during Apollo?

I'd believe that if Apollo wasn't such a bloat on the budget. Gemini? Maybe. I'm quite fond of the Gemini program from a technical history standpoint.

I'm not even going to touch on the family point, because that is completely a matter of perception.

But I don't think there's any less of that, you could say, dreamer mentality in this generation. We just lack a common competitor (I'm not counting the Chinese quite yet) for us to get all together against. Americans typically don't get their act together unless they're someone to compete or fight against (think about what brought us out of the Depression--a world war).

Not trying to argue, but "kids these days" type of comments aren't exactly helping us kids to want to pick up the slack when people retire.


"Never underestimate the power of a junior high science teacher."

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#66 2007-07-08 13:26:19

Vir Stellae
Member
From: Cow Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2003-12-08
Posts: 83

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Apollo, Saturn V during the 60's into the early 70's volunteering spirit was still alive and it was not about money. Family was still first even if they were not rich, you gave of your time and not money.

...But then came the LBJ and the Hippy revolution, and we gave birth to the gluttonous government-welfare complex that has been eating up about 15%+ of our income ever since, with not one ounce to show for it. Crime increased with it, the Gini index hasnt budged since this "War on Poverty" began, but we got double digit unemployment and inflation, stagnation, massive dropoffs in R&D (public R&D fell by half as a percentage of GDP), The end of the space program, etc, all to pay for people not to work...

The average economic growth rate dropped almost perfectly in line with the increase in social spending as a % of GDP. Growth fell from about a 4-4.5% average from the 40s to mid 60s to 3% by the 80s, where it leveled off (again in tandem with Social Spending which leveled off at Reagan). This abomination has cost the US probably over $20 trillion dollars directly since it's inception... and if the economic growth rate had remained the same about another $30 trillion indirectly in lost economic growth. We could already almost have colonies on mars with just fractions of that money. Our economy would be over 25% larger today.

Hurray for socialism, the bane of democratic civilization; the auctioning of stolen goods in return for votes or political power...

Maybe someday before I die we will go to mars, and stop throwing away more money to subsidize the lazy/weak/stupid.

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#67 2007-07-08 13:33:46

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Hard hitting Vir.

Please continue the politics here unless it can be brought back to the topic of the NASA 2008 budget.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#68 2007-07-10 09:36:35

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Accounting Error

... no one caught this blunder before the Commerce-Justice-Science Appropriations Committee passed the new NASA budget on June 28. It is now scheduled for a vote by the full Senate in the next few days. Presumably the Senate will have to clean this mistake up before the coming House-Senate conference at which the two houses' different recommended NASA Fiscal Year 2008 budgets will be resolved.

Until then, it remains uncertain just how much of an increase in NASA's Earth Sciences budget the Senate Appropriations Committee actually ordered -- $138 million, or only $83 million.

Will the committee appear at a hearing to explain their failure to NASA?  smile


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#69 2007-07-13 02:47:55

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Weldon Passes Vital NASA Amendment

Washington, Jul 12 - Following months of intense pressure and lobbying from U.S. Rep. Dave Weldon M.D. (R-FL), the House Appropriations Committee today approved a spending bill that gives NASA a $1.3 billion increase from 2007 and $290 million above the President’s 2008 request.  Weldon, who has been leading the charge to get NASA’s budget back on track after recent cuts to the manned space program, also successfully added an amendment to the bill that will help protect NASA jobs as the agency plans the upcoming transition from the Shuttle to the Constellation. 

According to Weldon, NASA workers represent some of the nation’s “best and brightest” and ensuring their future must be a top priority, particularly now that Congress has agreed to retire the Shuttle.

“The highly skilled workers and contractors who support NASA’s manned space are a tremendous asset to our country,” said Weldon, who represents thousands of NASA workers at Kennedy Space Center (KSC). “Today’s amendment will require NASA to report to Congress a comprehensive, forward-looking plan that addresses the flight gap employment between the Shuttle and the Constellation, and beyond. With NASA fully funded, the goal is to provide its workforce insight about what new tasks they will be assigned.”

NASA recently released a Shuttle/Constellation transition plan. While he commended NASA’s effort, Weldon expressed concern that the plan did not sufficiently address, among other things, future challenges to NASA’s contractor workforce, which comprises the bulk of KSC jobs. Weldon noted that only one page of the 44-page report was devoted to that difficult issue.

“NASA workers and their families deserve more than a general outline of how the agency intends to keep their jobs operational during the transition,” Weldon continued. “My amendment will encourage more thorough planning and open communication between NASA’s leadership and its workforce.”

Specifically, Weldon’s amendment holds NASA accountable by requiring the agency to provide specific details of how it will integrate the current Shuttle workforce into the Constellation program and other NASA initiatives that may need to be reassigned to the various centers within NASA.  Among other things, the measure requires NASA to prepare a detailed list of job transitioning initiatives, a strategy for implementation, and semi-annual progress reports to Congress and workers whose jobs could be affected by the transition.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#70 2007-07-13 21:37:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Well it was a while back that a transision page was made avaialble but it was only 8 pages long so went searching for the one mentioned and found lots of documents but not the particular one mentioned. Sure it may be findable but the issue still is that the shuttle army is left to fat after the last flight. Maybe Nasa can off load some contractors to the new spacers so as to give them a boost while looking to there being a need for them in the future.

Human Space Flight Transition Plan

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/oig/hq/au … 07-005.pdf

2006 NASA Strategic Plan

The Next Step in the Vision for Space ExplorationMay 08, 2006 Shuttle Program Transition & Retirement

NASA Advisory Council Space Operations Committee

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#71 2007-07-24 21:12:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

SUBCOMMITTEE REVIEWS NASA’S PLANS FOR SPACE STATION AND SHUTTLE

The Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics today held a hearing to examine the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s (NASA) Fiscal Year 2008 budget request and plans for the Space Shuttle and International Space Station (ISS) programs

Subcommittee Examines Challenges Facing Space Shuttle & International Space Station Programs

An ongoing labor strike, the approaching retirement of the Shuttle program and the challenges of operating and utilizing the International Space Station (ISS) after the Shuttle is retired were among the major issues considered today

Congress questions shuttle schedule

During a hearing before the House Science and Technology Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics, a congressional auditor expressed concern over NASA's launch schedule.

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#72 2007-08-07 22:33:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

American Association for the Advancement of Science

AAAS analysis finds Congress would add billions to FY 2008 R&D investment


Ya and it probably will be veto'ed

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#73 2007-10-05 01:20:20

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Senate votes more money for NASA space shuttle

By Richard Cowan Thu Oct 4, 6:22 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - NASA's space shuttle program would get a $1 billion boost under a measure passed by the Senate on Thursday, as lawmakers fretted that U.S. space exploration could be overshadowed by Russia, China or India.

The Senate approved the additional money for NASA in the fiscal year that began on Monday. But the Senate would still have to work out details with the House of Representatives.

The funds, which would also help pay for science and other aeronautics programs at NASA, were attached to a bill being debated that already provided a $1.2 billion increase in agency funding over last year.

The White House has threatened to veto the broader spending bill that also pays for law enforcement, science, economic development and other programs, because it would spend more than President George W. Bush has requested.

The increase in space funding came on the 50th anniversary of the Soviet Union's surprise launch of the Sputnik 1 satellite, marking the start of the space age and a race with the United States on developing technology to sustain manned missions in outer space.

The legislation would give NASA about $18.5 billion for the year, including $2.2 billion for space station operations.

Republican Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, which houses NASA's mission control operations, said years of insufficient funding for NASA created the possibility of "another Sputnik moment" for the United States. She warned that U.S. leadership in space eventually could be eclipsed by "the Chinese or to the Indian nation or to Russia."

Sen. Bill Nelson, the Florida Democrat who in 1986 orbited Earth 96 times while aboard the Columbia space shuttle that broke apart in flight 17 years later, called for reinvigorating U.S. space exploration.

"China is now graduating five times the number of engineers as the United States. I want to return to that era when we can get people excited about science and technology," Nelson said.

The disintegration of Columbia above Texas during its descent from space in 2003 put financial strains on NASA as it tried to investigate the cause of the accident and fix engineering problems.

Democratic Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland, who sought the additional $1 billion for the space shuttle program, said it would help "cover the cost of repairing and upgrading the space shuttle fleet."

She added that following the 1986 explosion of the Challenger space shuttle, Congress provided nearly $3 billion to correct problems and get the shuttles flying again.

Mikulski also said the money would help NASA fill a funding gap it faces between 2010, when the shuttle fleet is scheduled to be retired, and 2015, when a new space transport vehicle is supposed to be delivered.

The new vehicle would help prepare for planned U.S. missions to the moon and Mars.

At last another step forward!


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#74 2007-10-05 05:47:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Great, so it is not a done deal, go figures....

NASA's space shuttle program would get a $1 billion boost under a measure passed by the Senate on Thursday, But the Senate would still have to work out details with the House of Representatives.


So they see the light .....

lawmakers fretted that U.S. space exploration could be overshadowed by Russia, China or India.

I do not think that they really do understand...

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#75 2007-10-05 11:49:43

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: NASA 2008 Budget

Volunteer spirit during Apollo?

I'd believe that if Apollo wasn't such a bloat on the budget. Gemini? Maybe. I'm quite fond of the Gemini program from a technical history standpoint.

I'm not even going to touch on the family point, because that is completely a matter of perception.

But I don't think there's any less of that, you could say, dreamer mentality in this generation. We just lack a common competitor (I'm not counting the Chinese quite yet) for us to get all together against. Americans typically don't get their act together unless they're someone to compete or fight against (think about what brought us out of the Depression--a world war).

Not trying to argue, but "kids these days" type of comments aren't exactly helping us kids to want to pick up the slack when people retire.

That's kind of cynical thinking we all need a common enemy to get us motivated. Vladimir Putin thinks this way, he needs America to be his enemy and he feels only that will motivate his countrymen to do great things. "Russia is great only when measured against someone, and in order to get ahead, it is necessary to beat back someone else." Or "it seems you just can't feed the hungry without making someone else starve." That is a zero sum philosophy, some people live by that "Great Nations need to have victims."

I think our democratic way of life is superior to some of the ideas that dictators have, and to spread that idea, we should really spread throughout the Solar System and fill out the nitches before the forces of dictatorship and oppression get there. Russia is the "Empire" and we're the "Republic". Russia does things for the glory of its Czar Vladimir Putin, Russians have given up their right to control their destiny all for the greater glory and political ambitions of Vladimir Putin. I think the time of the Dictators should be over, and I'm tired of my country being pushed around and having to make compromises with these dictators that have no standing in a World of nations.

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