Followup on the Heim Drive

noosfractal · 2006-08-18 00:28:02

Has anyone considered the dynamic effects caused by the displaced air due to the radially outward force from the torus.

If a radial force does create a significant airstream, you could run it over an airfoil and use it to create lift.

John Creighton · 2006-08-18 01:19:37

Has anyone considered the dynamic effects caused by the displaced air due to the radially outward force from the torus.
If a radial force does create a significant airstream, you could run it over an airfoil and use it to create lift.

A radial force wouldn’t create an air stream it would create a low pressure. It would repel the air away from the torus. I think the azimuthally force might create an air stream. Azimuthally kind of sounds analogous to the magnetic flux lines around a current loop. The magnetic flux lines go around the wire. So the air would circulate around the torus. There would be an air stream, though it would also pull air back in the opposite direction around the outside. Perhaps if you block off some of the path around the outside you would have more air going though it then back around the outside. Kind of like a jet turbine or something but requiring a heck of a lot more energy. Of course this is just conjecture of how the equations work. I haven’t yet looked at the math that closely. A radial anti gravitational field kind of sounds like the gravity caused by negative mass which I think would be analogous to negative energy. So if you can have radial antigravities fields maybe you can build a huckleberry drive.

John Creighton · 2006-08-18 01:28:02

What you are describing reminds me of the article I read at howstuffworks.com on electromagnetic propulsion (not the stuffs that deals with ion engines and plasma).
I realize that the function of the solenoid and wire below vary greatly when compared to Heim's application to a space drive.
Here is the original article - http://science.howstuffworks.com/electr … ulsion.htm
That article uses traditional physics to explain how that form of propulsion would work.

I read the how stuff works article and it didn’t really explain how this concept works at all.

publiusr · 2006-08-22 17:34:03

Pixie dust.

John Creighton · 2006-08-22 23:43:45

Pixie dust.

Oh, I don’t think Quantum theory allows for Pixie dust. lol

noosfractal · 2006-10-27 13:38:43

Latest Tajmar paper ...

Measurement of Gravitomagnetic and Acceleration Fields Around Rotating Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0610015v1

At least two US labs working on replicating the result.

John Creighton · 2006-10-28 03:36:50

Latest Tajmar paper ...
Measurement of Gravitomagnetic and Acceleration Fields Around Rotating Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0610015v1
At least two US labs working on replicating the result.

I don’t think most people here are denying the connection between gravity and electromagnetism. Rather they are point out that some of the claimed consequences look more like fantasy then engineering or science.

noosfractal · 2006-10-28 15:41:47

I don’t think most people here are denying the connection between gravity and electromagnetism.

Really? It's news to me.

Rather they are point out that some of the claimed consequences look more like fantasy then engineering or science.

If the Tajmar result is true - that we can generate gravitational fields from EM fields at the level he describes - then all the rest follows. The Hiem stuff is interesting because it provides a theoretical justification, but it is incidental really.

The Tajmar result may be garbage, but it is the closest to non-garbage I've ever seen. UC Berkeley is taking it seriously. We should have confirmation or not by early next year.

PS. the howstuffworks (or doesn't in this case) article is unrelated to Tajmar's result.

Gennaro · 2006-12-04 20:41:11

Latest Tajmar paper ...
Measurement of Gravitomagnetic and Acceleration Fields Around Rotating Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0610015v1
At least two US labs working on replicating the result.

This sounds almost precisely like the spinning superconducter experiment Evgeny Podkletnov was pulling in a Helsinki lab in the early 1990's. Definitely zero point energy related. "Crank science" coming out of the closet by the backdoor, after being secluded for decades by the powers that are, just in time for the world waking up to the prospects of a looming Peak Oil crisis?

John Creighton · 2006-12-04 22:30:45

This sounds almost precisely like the spinning superconducter experiment Evgeny Podkletnov was pulling in a Helsinki lab in the early 1990's. Definitely zero point energy related. "Crank science" coming out of the closet by the backdoor, after being secluded for decades by the powers that are, just in time for the world waking up to the prospects of a looming Peak Oil crisis?

Zero point energy doesn’t give you something for nothing. No need to draw peek oil connections.

noosfractal · 2007-08-09 03:39:58

If the Tajmar result is true - that we can generate gravitational fields from EM fields at the level he describes - then all the rest follows.

But we can't

Tajmar rules out his own result in his latest paper ...

Search for Frame-Dragging in the Vicinity of Spinning Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.3806

He finds something else, but it is hyperweird ( signal when rotating clockwise but not counter-clockwise - WTF? ).

Blah.

Antius · 2007-08-14 06:04:33

The paper even said that you can’t use the gravity machine as a space ship drive.
My reading of section 7.1.3 ... "From these numbers it seems to be possible that, if our theoretical predictions are correct, the realization of a workable space propulsion device that can lift itself from the surface of the Earth seems to be feasible with current technology" ... is that you can.
To bad my electromagnetism knowledge is getting fuzzy because the math looks really similar.
Yep. My understanding is that they're saying you generate gravity just like you generate electricity - rotation in a magnetic field. The constants are different, so we haven't noticed it before.

I've read about this effect before, it isn't entirely sci-fi and it can be deduced from general relativity, that every magnetic field also generates a gravitational field. The 'problem' is it's generally a weak effect, requiring an electromagnet kilometres long, just to produce an effect that would be measurable. I've never heard serious discussion of using it as a space propulsion technology, but I will shut up and read the paper.....

John Creighton · 2007-08-14 13:11:31

If the Tajmar result is true - that we can generate gravitational fields from EM fields at the level he describes - then all the rest follows.
But we can't
Tajmar rules out his own result in his latest paper ...
Search for Frame-Dragging in the Vicinity of Spinning Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.3806
He finds something else, but it is hyperweird ( signal when rotating clockwise but not counter-clockwise - WTF? ).
Blah.

One day we will have the answer.

Nik · 2007-08-26 19:06:55

I could not get the recent document to open, but that may be my paranoid firewall's doing...

Um, the theory is questionable, but the science looks good. If it works and is reproducible, then there are, indeed, possibilities.

IMHO, one such rotating whatsit could be considered analogous to a homopolar motor or generator: Interesting, but limited by topology.

But, take two or more, turn them sideways-- Assemblages may have interesting multi-polar and far-field effects. Whether or not these have any use is another matter entirely.

FWIW, the recent generation of super-cooled space-telescopes may supply ways to keep cryo-kit cool long enough to try these effects under lower gravity...

noosfractal · 2008-02-27 06:12:34

But we can't
Tajmar rules out his own result in his latest paper ...
Search for Frame-Dragging in the Vicinity of Spinning Superconductors
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.3806
He finds something else, but it is hyperweird ( signal when rotating clockwise but not counter-clockwise - WTF? ).
Blah.

But it was enough to apply for a patent for a "Gravitational Field Generator" ...

http://science.orf.at/science/news/150722 (in German)

... or has he found more since?

The article says Aerospace Corp. is working on something similar.

It seems also that EarthTech is seriously trying to replicate Tajmar's experiment ...
http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/tajmar/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-06-06 06:29:05

ZPE thread
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1596
Subatomic particles popping in and out of existence?

Scientist are building a 100 petawatt laser to rip apart empty space and produce matter out of the vacuum
https://asiatimes.com/2021/05/china-on- … akthrough/

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#26 2006-08-18 00:28:02

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#27 2006-08-18 01:19:37

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#28 2006-08-18 01:28:02

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#29 2006-08-22 17:34:03

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#30 2006-08-22 23:43:45

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#31 2006-10-27 13:38:43

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#32 2006-10-28 03:36:50

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#33 2006-10-28 15:41:47

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#34 2006-12-04 20:41:11

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#35 2006-12-04 22:30:45

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#36 2007-08-09 03:39:58

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#37 2007-08-14 06:04:33

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#38 2007-08-14 13:11:31

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#39 2007-08-26 19:06:55

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#40 2008-02-27 06:12:34

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

#41 2021-06-06 06:29:05

Re: Followup on the Heim Drive

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