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#76 2006-10-25 08:24:20

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Swell... as long as its just engineering design work, and we own, maintain, and can replicate the design on our own, then I could stomach it. If not, then Griffin has crossed a red line with me.


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#77 2006-10-25 08:31:25

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Swell... as long as its just engineering design work, and we own, maintain, and can replicate the design on our own, then I could stomach it. If not, then Griffin has crossed a red line with me.

APAS has been used by Shuttle ever since it started docking with Mir, the PMAs on ISS also use this system. As Orion is planned initially to dock with ISS it will need APAS. IIRC the Block 3 (RTTM) Orions will use the LIDS (Low Impact Docking System) as will LSAM.


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#78 2006-10-27 12:34:06

publiusr
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From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Whatever it takes.

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#79 2006-11-03 22:26:37

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Irvin Aerospace Selected to Design Parachutes for NASA's Orion Spacecraft

732.thm

Working with an integrated product team (IPT) that includes NASA,
Jacobs Sverdrup, and engineers from Irvin Aerospace, the design team will
develop a CEV Parachute Assembly System (CPAS) which is scheduled to begin
testing in approximately 6 months.

Irvin is also working with NASA's Langley Research Center to explore
the suitability of a Landing Airbag System for the final landing
attenuation for the Orion spacecraft. Irvin was recently awarded a
development contract from Rocketplane Kistler under NASA's recent
Commercial Orbital Transpiration Services (COTS) program to complete the
development of the RpK K-1 vehicle to provide commercial cargo deliver and
eventually crew delivery services to the International Space Station.

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#80 2006-11-07 04:19:47

Grypd
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From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,863

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

The CEV will use a novel means to be able to get the crew to safety in case a launchpad fire occurs.

They will have a roller coaster.

KSC Safety Roller Coaster


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#81 2006-11-07 12:18:47

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Orion could have integrated seat and suit (Flight International 7 November)

NASA's Orion crew exploration vehicle could have an integrated seat and spacesuit, says deputy associate administrator for exploration operations Michael Foale. The four- to six-crew Orion is to have couch-like seats and studies are ongoing as to whether the launch and entry suit will be separate from or integrated into the seat.

Interesting idea, has an integrated suit and seat been built before?


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#82 2006-11-09 12:12:09

dicktice
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Kind of. The individually fitted custom seat-liners used by each Soyuz capsule passenger is an essential part of the seating arrangements.

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#83 2006-11-09 17:32:35

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

No, those are intended to protect the Cosmonaut from excessive G-forces when the Soyuz capsule comes down a bit harder than its supposed to. The US invented memory foam for this purpose if memory serves. Anyway, the Soyuz still has a seat (which takes up mass and room) that the liner fits into, the NASA idea is to do away with the seat entirely, instead just having a frame that portions of the flight suit hooks into, not unlike a folding web camping cot.


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#84 2006-11-13 21:56:07

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Not really up to date with the recent rumors...
NASA'S Exploration Systems Progress Report

NASA recently completed a series of tests that will aid in the design and development of a parachute recovery system for the rocket and capsule that will return astronauts to the moon and later support missions to Mars. The system will be used for the first stage booster of the Ares I crew launch vehicle and for Orion, the new crew exploration vehicle.

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#85 2006-11-28 09:59:02

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

At the Astrophysics enabled by return to the moon workshop today, Scot Horowitz talked about putting a cargo bay into the Orion SM. This would be used when Orion visits the ISS in order to utililize the full lift capacity of the Ares I launch vehicle.


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#86 2006-11-28 13:45:38

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

NASA to Brief Exploration Strategy and Lunar Architecture

NASA Deputy Administrator Shana Dale and senior executives from the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate will host a press conference at 1 p.m. CST Monday, Dec. 4, to announce the agency's global exploration strategy and lunar architecture.

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#87 2006-12-11 10:26:14

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

orionwa2.jpg
Orion spacecraft general arrangement (ripped from Project Orion Overview, Lockheed Martin )

Presentation charts from the 2nd Exploration conference are now online, in particular:

Project Orion Overview, NASA
Project Orion Overview, Lockheed Martin


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#88 2006-12-11 21:34:43

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

A LITTLE Barrow firm has won a £1.8m contract from the NASA space agency to help it design a manned spacecraft to conquer Mars.

The firm is to supply computer software to help hundreds of NASA design engineers in the United States draw up the detailed design for the Orion spacecraft.

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#89 2006-12-11 21:40:25

SpaceNut
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Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Lockheed and NASA agree Orion changes

The number of parachutes, retro-rocket location, heatshield structure and use of crushable zones have all been agreed between the US space agency and Lockheed.

NASA and Lockheed have agreed to have three parachutes, not four to locate the retro-rockets behind the thermal protection system (TPS) heatshield, not in the parachute shrouds as Lockheed had proposed, with the shield being dropped just before landing to allow retro-rocket firing to segment the shield instead of using a monolithic structure and use Lockheed's choice of TPS material, phenolic impregnated carbon ablator (PICA). The Orion capsule will also have a crushable zone on its underside.

"As we drop the heatshield, we can take some area out of the parachutes and that saves weight,"

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#90 2006-12-12 04:13:50

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Good find SpaceNut. So:

o Three parachutes

o Segmented PICA reentery shield, "dropped"  before landing

o Retro rockets under capsule

o Crushable zone under capsule


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#91 2006-12-14 21:24:34

SpaceNut
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Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

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#92 2006-12-15 02:51:42

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
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Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Nice model. The full size capsule is 5m across, that's 16.4 feet. The solar arrays are very similar in design to those on the Phoenix - also built by Lockheed Martin.


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#93 2006-12-15 08:17:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Beefing up Lockheed is priming Orion pump. Firm leasing space, hiring workers for spaceflight program

Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Jefferson County, which landed the $8.2 billion Orion contract in late August, has 250 or more employees already on the job here. That's up from the 150 who initially drafted Lockheed's winning bid for NASA.

And Lockheed has leased a four-story building in the southwest metro area encompassing about 140,000 square feet to house the 600 employees who ultimately will work on designing Orion.

the company expects to be at the 600-employee level by late 2007 or early 2008.

Looking ahead, McKenzie said that in two to three years 3,000 to 3,500 people around the country will be involved in the design and manufacture of Orion. The company is working with a variety of subcontractors.

Lockheed has parceled out its work on the project to employees around the country.

Lockheed's main hub of operations for building Orion is in Houston, where the company is co-located with NASA's Johnson Space Center.

Lockheed officials plan to perform final assembly and testing on Orion at Florida's Kennedy Space Center. The company plans to build large "structural" components at facilities in Michoud, La.

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#94 2006-12-16 23:38:11

RedStreak
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From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Nice model. The full size capsule is 5m across, that's 16.4 feet. The solar arrays are very similar in design to those on the Phoenix - also built by Lockheed Martin.

I noticed that too.  I think that might be an improvement over the accordian-style arrays used on the ISS...and the flaws they have during deployment due to their fabric-like-nature: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16224153/  That also explains why the Hubble's (relatively) new arrays are compact and solid; during its legendary repair I remember how one of them failed to work properly and had to be dumped.

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#95 2006-12-21 03:46:28

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Orion On Track But Overweight; Funding Crunch Could Hit In '07

NASA's Orion crew exploration vehicle remains on schedule to carry humans to the International Space Station no later than 2014, and possibly earlier, but it will need to go on a New Year's diet to lose about 3,000 pounds of excess weight.

Managers are confident the weight can be trimmed, but they are still studying how the lack of a NASA appropriations bill will affect Orion spending in 2007. Congress adjourned without passing one, and spending levels set by the continuing resolution adopted instead - based on last year's levels - could start to pinch in a few months.

Over the next two months designers will analyze every Orion subsystem to squeeze out weight, with a "challenge" set by management of finding ways to reduce each by 20 percent. There are also some "big-ticket" weight savers under study, including a redesign of the spacecraft adaptor that will connect Orion to the upper stage of its Ares I launch vehicle.

By extending the adaptor over the propellant tanks, engines and other systems in the Orion service module so that it reaches almost to the command module on top of that, the project would gain some load-carrying structure that could be jettisoned during ascent rather than taken all the way to orbit.

"It would be almost like a shroud," Hatfield said. "As you go to orbit, once you're at the point of the second stage engine lighting, when you're above most of the atmosphere, you could kick the aerodynamic panels off of the thing, and it saves somewhere between 500 and 1,000 effective mass to orbit."

Nice idea, so the SM sheds its skin on the way to orbit.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#96 2006-12-21 13:10:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Good find SpaceNut. So:

o Three parachutes

o Segmented PICA reentery shield, "dropped"  before landing

o Retro rockets under capsule

o Crushable zone under capsule

Went to see the FMI plant and was shown the area where the PICA shield material as it was being made. There is a limiting factor in the treatment of the raw material in that the chamber for the process makes a bilet (large brick) about 18 inches by 3 feet by about a foot thick. The carbon is impregnated with yellow phenolic in solution that then is baked out to leave the brick.

This granted is in the developement stages and still under developement for the very large Orion versus its previous use on StarDust.

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#97 2006-12-28 21:11:05

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,936

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Nice idea, so the SM sheds its skin on the way to orbit.

By extending the adaptor over the propellant tanks, engines and other systems in the Orion service module so that it reaches almost to the command module on top of that, the project would gain some load-carrying structure that could be jettisoned during ascent rather than taken all the way to orbit.

"It would be almost like a shroud," Hatfield said. "As you go to orbit, once you're at the point of the second stage engine lighting, when you're above most of the atmosphere, you could kick the aerodynamic panels off of the thing, and it saves somewhere between 500 and 1,000 effective mass to orbit."

While if this is jetisonned at the time the SRB falls off to allow for a lighter starting weight for the upper stages it does bring to mind what happened with SkyLab.

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#98 2006-12-29 07:11:52

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

While if this is jetisonned at the time the SRB falls off to allow for a lighter starting weight for the upper stages it does bring to mind what happened with SkyLab.

The sequence is unclear. As the load bearing adaptor shroud extends over the SM it seems logical that the shroud would be jettisoned with the adaptor after US burnout. However Hatfield is quoted as saying the panels would be kicked off when the US is lit. A misquote perhaps.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#99 2006-12-29 17:04:04

publiusr
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From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Now they want Orion for asteroid missions.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology … orion.html

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#100 2006-12-29 17:21:03

cIclops
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Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Orion (CEV / SM) - status

Indeed. However the article fails to mention that Orion by itself won't have sufficient propulsion to rendevous and return from an asteroid. One idea is to use an extra Ares I cargo flight to lift another SM plus maybe an airlock/hab that Orion would dock with to provide the delta V and supplies. This combination could make a useful vehicle for L1 servicing (eg JWST) and perhaps even a fifth HST mission.


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