NASA Exploration Roadmaps

Grypd · 2006-06-06 04:17:29

Dr Griffin has been recieveing a lot of flack over the Vision for Space Exploration and the changes he has to make to implement it.

Griffin Defends NASA Exploration Vision

publiusr · 2006-06-09 11:23:19

I can't get the link to work.

I really worry about the next administration. When Zubrin called for an HLLV, McCain rolled his eyes. (not a good sign).

McCain asked about a response to china, and one of the space libertairan frauds responded by saying that we don't need "one 'socialist space program to respond to another."

So Apollo was socialist and not a sign of the strength of the free-world.

That just shows the idiocy of the space libertarians who would no doubt nix VSE--while secretly getting NASA/taxpayer funds for a plethora of Rube Goldberg schemes--none of which will ever see orbit. McCain worries me. Too bad Jeb's last name is Bush.

cIclops · 2006-06-09 12:51:46

I can't get the link to work.

The Space Daily search box found it here

from the article:

... engineers are developing descent stage for the landing segment of the Crew Exploration Vehicle, which will be powered by liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen feeding NASA's RL-10 rocket engines.
"That is probably the highest likelihood engineering design statement I can make about our architecture at the present time," Griffin said. "It's the one thing I feel certain of."
That descent stage, he continued, "will not, cannot and must not be highly integrated with the human element - the ascent stage and crew vehicle right above it. And the reason for that is the descent stage must be capable of being guided and controlled by any number of different payloads," such as unmanned cargo pods and habitats delivered by robotic craft.

Grypd · 2006-06-09 15:07:35

I have fixed the link sorry for any inconvenience.

But it still applies Griffin and his vision do have a lot of very strong opponents.

cIclops · 2006-06-10 03:14:27

I have fixed the link sorry for any inconvenience.
But it still applies Griffin and his vision do have a lot of very strong opponents.

VSE is not only Griffin's vision it's the view of a large number of people who want to see space exploration continue. People who want to see people return to the Moon, explore the NEOs and Mars, and dare we dream of going beyond? Griffin has succeeded in reorientating NASA in this direction and got the support of Congress. Sure there are a lot of people who don't want this. They are the ones who benefited from the moribund state NASA was in, namely:

o micro gravity scientists
o astrobiologists
o fantasy spacecraft engineers
o absurdly expensive space based astronomers

All these people having lived off billions in funding are now squealing because some of their next generation, even more expensive projects have been delayed or heaven forbid, canceled. Meanwhile exploration has been starved of funds and trapped in LEO for 30 years. Exploration has been reborn, keep it alive!

Rxke · 2006-06-10 03:40:13

Still...

How probable is it tat the U.S.A.'s next elections see a Government less in favor of VSE?
The stick will probably be finished, but the large cargo hauler? Is it possible someone decides: "we already have enough big launchers, scrap it"?

(I know, it would be stupid, but that has never stopped politicians before...)

cIclops · 2006-06-10 09:25:06

Still...
How probable is it tat the U.S.A.'s next elections see a Government less in favor of VSE?
The stick will probably be finished, but the large cargo hauler? Is it possible someone decides: "we already have enough big launchers, scrap it"?
(I know, it would be stupid, but that has never stopped politicians before...)

This baseless scenario has been going around and around for some time, it seems to have sprung from the crowd that believes the fantasy that everyone hates Bush. Griffin has done an excellent job so far and crafted a program that is not only doable but affordable. Why should the next president want to cancel a working program that delivers results? The CEV will fly during the next presidency and the ISS will be completed and STS retired. NASA will then be firmly on the new path back to the Moon and onto Mars.

Rxke · 2006-06-10 10:40:35

I was careful *not* to imply the everybody-hates-Bush idea.

What I meant is: CEV will fly, but some Wooden-headed Prez might get it in his/her head CEV is enough. And scrap CALV, because it is not yet built by then. And would cost money.

And I said it would be stupid, but...

publiusr · 2006-06-16 13:55:44

Heavy Lift
http://www.spacefellowship.com/Forum/vi … 0484#20484
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Steve … icles.html
http://www.space.com/news/060602_nasa_moonlegs.html

http://www.space.com/adastra/adastra_le … 60615.html

Heavy Lift help?
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Griff … sions.html

But where is Kliper?
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca … o=0&fpart=

CEV
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_As … _2014.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_ … Tasks.html

SRB discussion
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 66&start=1

Large Launch vehicle architecture
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 4&start=31

Dnepr
http://www.tsniimash.ru/History/Utkin_kniga_eng.html
http://www.kosmotras.ru/

Zenit as sub-orbital ride?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 27&start=1

ESAS debate
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 6&posts=30

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca … o=0&fpart=

Space Ferry
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca … o=0&fpart=

New players in Space:
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology … _cots.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/One_F … Space.html
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Spa … ement.html

Fly-back booster
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca … art=1&vc=1

Mining in space
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Sudbu … osium.html

cIclops · 2006-06-30 12:50:45

Yep NASA announced 30 Jun 2006 the new launch vehicles will be named Project Ares.

The CLV is now called Ares 1 and the CaLV will be known as Ares V. More very strong echoes of the Saturn 1 and V.

Blurb here

publiusr · 2006-06-30 13:10:03

Some HLLV links here:
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=33414&page=3

GCNRevenger · 2006-06-30 13:20:18

Ares-I and Ares-V... I think I like it. Nice mission patch logo too.

cIclops · 2006-07-01 04:57:06

Exploration update briefing - NASA TV 30 Jun 2006

with: Scott Horowitz, Jeff Hanley (presentation PDF) and Steve Cook

Key points:

o Ares 1 wind tunnel testing started
o Ares 1 first flight test will use a 4 Segment SRB + dummy segment
o J-2X component testing - will be starting next year with turbo machinery from X-33 aerospike engine
o CEV TPS materials testing started using four/five materials including ones from Apollo and MER heatshield
o CEV Procurement targeting September for contract award
o LSAM conceptual studies underway
o KSC launch pad study - launch complex 39 is "strongest contender"
o Ares project name official

GCNRevenger · 2006-07-01 07:16:57

I wonder if somebody got a little... inspiration from somplace:

Rxke · 2006-07-03 14:07:58

Naming these babies Ares gives a strong message of where NASA's vision is headed eventually, IMO.

I like it a lot, this is what every Mars-nut could only dream of, some years ago, and now...

Wow, looks like we're finally heading out of LEO, for real, yay!

Ian Flint · 2006-07-04 13:06:26

I was shocked to see the name Ares on this VSE thing. I truly thought the Mars part of Moon-Mars was all hot air, but this name is promising. I sure hope they carry through and use the Ares to send explorers to its namesake.

cIclops · 2006-08-04 03:11:34

Mike Griffin's speech at the 2006 Mars Society Convention outlined the way forward to human Mars missions.

Next year, I hope to make plans as to how to carry out manned missions to Mars, building on the heavy-lift launch vehicles, landers, and other capabilities from the lunar exploration architecture. We will especially call for the support of our international partners for this long-term endeavor, as we build on the relationships forged in assembling the International Space Station.
...
We are turning science fiction into reality. We do what others dream.

Marsman · 2006-08-04 19:54:49

Wow, we've been thrown a few more crumbs, yipee. Tell me this. If NASA is going to Mars whenever they want then what is the point of the existence of groups like the Mars Society?(and don't tell me R&D, NASA do their own). If we can't succeed at bringing forward the date of a Mars mission then what is the point of anything? No wonder its next to impossible to raise any support. Some here might say that our efforts are worthwhile but even if they are that doesn't justify the existence of a group like the Mars Society.(and I'm a member). If TMS R&D efforts have no impact on bringing a date forward or on the mission itself then maybe its time we disbanded? I mean the universities and private corporations NASA looks to for R&D do quite fine without us. Or perhaps we should direct our efforts to groups and nations who do want to get to Mars asap? Tell me, what is the point of the Mars Society if we have no impact on NASA or on their progress on a Mars mission? The naming of the Ares launcher etc are to me just cheap token gestures and probably have nothing to do with TMS anyway. NASA have been saying "20 years more" for decades now. Nothing has changed. Doing another design study will just add to the pile of good and bad ideas out there and will nicely distract groups like TMS into thinking that progress is being made. More cheap tokens. I'm sick of them. I don't want another paper mission to mars. I want a real one, and soon. If NASA won't do it then it's time for someone else to.

Martin_Tristar · 2006-08-04 20:26:14

Marsman,

We need to build a financial base to expand the services of the Mars Society , If NASA won't do it then , someone needs to do it !!!!, Why can't it be the Mars Society.

Its the membership of the Mars Soiety must make a decision on the direction, it should take in the development of Mars space on their timeline or NASA Timeline ?, then the decision made follow through and make it happen.

Mars Society Timeline :

Say you use the Ares Launcher as your vehicle base but we need the develop the upper stage/s for the mars direct mission from concept to design to prototyping then production. Secondly, we need the crew for the mission , not from nasa, but equally trained to their level on our equipment.

But before we can do that we need to build the necessary financial and human resources necessary to mount and maintain a mission to mars .

SpaceNut · 2006-08-04 21:02:55

Marsman,
We need to build a financial base to expand the services of the Mars Society , If NASA won't do it then , someone needs to do it !!!!, Why can't it be the Mars Society.
Its the membership of the Mars Soiety must make a decision on the direction, it should take in the development of Mars space on their timeline or NASA Timeline ?, then the decision made follow through and make it happen.
Mars Society Timeline :
Say you use the Ares Launcher as your vehicle base but we need the develop the upper stage/s for the mars direct mission from concept to design to prototyping then production. Secondly, we need the crew for the mission , not from nasa, but equally trained to their level on our equipment.
But before we can do that we need to build the necessary financial and human resources necessary to mount and maintain a mission to mars .

This sounds like a new thread of descusion for how to leverage what Nasa will have with the Ares V to allow one to speed up the time line for mars mission.

As for the funding and generation of such one needs to take a business approach to how as well as for the spending of what you will get to make your efforts pay off.

SpaceNut · 2006-08-05 20:07:33

A new report from the Government Accountability Office the watchdog arm of Congress warns NASA faces up to $14 billion in cost overruns on its moonship program by 2011, unless the agency changes the way it does business with contractors.

The GAO is so concerned it wants NASA to wait until 2008 to sign off on its moonship and moon rocket programs, giving the agency time to revise contract plans with contractors.

GAO-estimated pricetag of $230 billion by 2025, NASA's moon-Mars program.

It's also recommending that Congress restrict NASA spending to make sure it happens.

That would cause delays in the moon program that NASA doesn't want, so it's pushing ahead to:

Select Lockheed Martin or Grumman in September to build the shuttle's manned replacement, the Crew Exploration Vehicle.

Award contracts in October and November for construction of the first and second stages of the rocket that will carry the craft into orbit.

publiusr · 2006-08-11 16:12:50

Naming these babies Ares gives a strong message of where NASA's vision is headed eventually, IMO.
I like it a lot, this is what every Mars-nut could only dream of, some years ago, and now...
Wow, looks like we're finally heading out of LEO, for real, yay!

So let's show some appreciation and start up a webpage supporting Mike Griffin? Lots of Signatures.

Friedman and Tumlinson have their mouthpieces--I say we turn this site into a couter against the idiots like Cowing, Tumlinson Jeff Bell, etc.

Who's with me?

GregM · 2006-08-12 10:49:50

Award contracts in October and November for construction of the first and second stages of the rocket that will carry the craft into orbit.

nasaspaceflight.com is strongly implying that they have inside information that the Stick is going to be killed off very soon. It has become too problematic.

GCNRevenger · 2006-08-12 11:31:29

Nonsense, just heresay, and silly heresay at that. If NASA cancels Ares-I, then what will they do?

GregM · 2006-08-13 20:04:07

Nonsense, just heresay, and silly heresay at that. If NASA cancels Ares-I, then what will they do?

They are implying that there has been a "showstopper" on Aries 1 (the Stick) related to the second stage, or how the second stage relates to the first stage. Apparently this was exposed at a recient design review. Details to come out soon.

Meet the new Aries 1 - "Stumpy". Basically, the 5 segment SRB first stage of the Stick is broken in half and each half is placed on either side of the second stage (3 segs per side). The Stick's second stage is widened to STS ET dimensions and given an extra J-2X.

http://www.miomanager.com/Mio_Files/lib … /CLV1a.JPG

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#26 2006-06-06 04:17:29

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#27 2006-06-09 11:23:19

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#28 2006-06-09 12:51:46

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#29 2006-06-09 15:07:35

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#30 2006-06-10 03:14:27

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#31 2006-06-10 03:40:13

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#32 2006-06-10 09:25:06

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#33 2006-06-10 10:40:35

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#34 2006-06-16 13:55:44

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#35 2006-06-30 12:50:45

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#36 2006-06-30 13:10:03

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#37 2006-06-30 13:20:18

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#38 2006-07-01 04:57:06

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#39 2006-07-01 07:16:57

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#40 2006-07-03 14:07:58

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#41 2006-07-04 13:06:26

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#42 2006-08-04 03:11:34

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#43 2006-08-04 19:54:49

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#44 2006-08-04 20:26:14

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#45 2006-08-04 21:02:55

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#46 2006-08-05 20:07:33

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#47 2006-08-11 16:12:50

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#48 2006-08-12 10:49:50

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#49 2006-08-12 11:31:29

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

#50 2006-08-13 20:04:07

Re: NASA Exploration Roadmaps

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