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#26 2006-05-30 17:57:22

RedStreak
Banned
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Ion to Mars

Work with existing technolgy drive motor systems we could use to get to mars .

Larger Vessels :

- Standard Engines ( Hydrogen / LOX )

- Nuclear Engines

- Plasma Drive

Smaller vessels and long range probes

- Standard Engines

- Ion Drvive Motors

I wouldn't call nuclear engines an existing technology - NERVA was a prototype but that was a few decades ago - long shelved and forgotten, and, if you recall both the Galileo and Cassini (and even New Horizons to a smaller degree), there's been continuing protest of nuclear material in space.

Plasma drive needs perhaps one more decade of refinement, including at least one Deep Space-style mission to test it, otherwise I'd say that qualifies.

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#27 2006-06-05 05:05:37

MarsDog
Member
From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Ion to Mars

 
I see it in 2 steps.

Near Earth,
High power engines for low Earth orbit insertion.
Present designs, and possibly beamed power later.

Interplanetary,
Ion drive and plasma engines are here, but without a high power source.
Solar power satellites are needed to beam the power, but the cost is high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite
 

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#28 2006-06-09 11:16:45

publiusr
Banned
From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Ion to Mars

CaLV/NTR

That is the winning combo.

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#29 2006-09-13 14:33:22

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,776

Re: Ion to Mars

Why are we even bothering with Ion Engines?  Nuclear Pulse Detonation, Anti-matter, and just about anything that's not a solar sail will go faster than the ion engine.  Even the old liquid oxygen/hydrogen will go faster.

The ion engine has a very high exhaust velocity because the particles being expelled from the engines are going pretty fast.  However, the particles aren't very big, making the energy coming out very little.  It would be good for long distance travel, not short distance trips like mars.

Now let me explain anti-matter engines.  The thrust is fast, because the particles are being expelled at the speed of light (being light after all, it has to go at the speed of light).  The acceleration would be relatively fast because of the insane amount of energy coming out of the rear due to e=mc^2.

That type of tech is beyond NASA or any other space agency going to Mars on Anti-matter power is for science fiction movies and comic books

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#30 2006-09-14 08:12:48

GCNRevenger
Member
From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Ion to Mars

Ion drive isn't though. Actually ion drive is kind of the "plan B" for the NASA DRM Mars plan: put the Mars ship and a solar ion tug into LEO, the ion tug pushes the ship almost to escape velocity over a number of months, and only then is the crew brought up with a capsule. Crew is transferred, final checkout is done, and then the Mars ship uses chemical engines for the final push out of Earth orbit to Mars.

Problems with this include, however:

  • ~An ion tug of that magnetude would be expensive to develop and build
    ~Long soak in the Van Allen belts would probably preclude reuseability of the tug, may be a problem for the Mars ship too.
    ~Fuel mass, though smaller, is still substantial enough to make reuseability questionable.
    ~Ion tugs not as reliable as plain old rockets
    ~Cryogenic fuel preferred for the Mars ship, which would boil off while spiraling out to escape velocity
    ~Generally tightens launch schedules
    ~Likely requires super-heavy version of CEV and Ares-I to make very-high-orbit rendezvous with fuel for emergency return.

Overall, alot of trouble for reducing the total launch mass by 1/5th to a quarter, but it could be done.


[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

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#31 2024-06-06 10:25:22

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,776

Re: Ion to Mars

an old topic and Nuclear is back in space, Two Heavy Lift rockets in operation and the USA looking at new designs with some kinds of Nuclear Electric Ion System explored

many years ago some of us did not expect Ion-propulsion to be so successful although it still have very low thrust, although science has changed there are still limits and the speeds required for interstellar travel in a human lifetime far exceed what current methods of space travel can provide. 

Asteroid-bound Psyche spacecraft fires up ion thrusters, starts cruising through space

https://www.space.com/psyche-asteroid-m … se-control

Perhaps used not for manned missions but to supply robots for material to build a base.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-06-06 10:31:25)

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