Froggy's

clark · 2005-11-08 15:00:19

Oh where oh where has my lost identity gone,
Oh where oh where can it be...

The smart cookies in the class will get it.

Am I froggy, am I not?
I always want what others got!
Mom and Pop don't speak a lick,
And what they speak makes me sick-
Where's my place, I don't know,
Burn this place, enjoy the show!
Call em scum, get them on the run
but in the end, they've already won.

Watch and wait, but se la ve
Whatever will be, will be.

Take care DonPanic. Apt name right about now.

Palomar · 2005-11-08 15:08:57

Yes, dear, in France, I struggle day after day against usual racism, against hate at Arab country originated peoples, I go and teach Science for free or very small wages in these poor districts

*I didn't know that. Very commendable.

--Cindy

noosfractal · 2005-11-08 15:21:26

I go and teach Science for free or very small wages in these poor districts

Then you see the culture clash up close and personal. Do you disagree with Wieviorka that this is a "total crisis" for integration?
_

DonPanic · 2005-11-09 02:44:57

I go and teach Science for free or very small wages in these poor districts
Then you see the culture clash up close and personal. Do you disagree with Wieviorka that this is a "total crisis" for integration?
_

When going in these wrecked suburbs with supposed to be agressive kids,
just saying them "hello" with a smile, they answer "hello, my brother"...

This is all about economics, total crisis has 3 causes :
1) Inemployment
2) Inemployment
3) Inemployment

Had parents a job, had the children a hope for a job, nothing would happen.
They just want to be as everybody, own a house, a car, be abble to get married, grow up children
This a a failure from french government, partly EU, to provide conditions for high employment rate.
I'm not a pro politician, I admit I can't say which would be these conditions.

noosfractal · 2005-11-09 04:00:49

I'm strongly against "Intelligent Design" as a non scientifical theory.

Here you go, something to cheer you up ...

'Intelligent-design' school board ousted in Penn
_

SpaceNut · 2005-11-09 07:17:14

DonPanic
You are not alone with what you see from the poorer areas of your nation. Even in America we can find much of the samethings with respect to the many that are unemployed, the poor living conditions and as a teacher you are to be commended for putting yourself out there to make a difference. To try to effect change though education but those you give this knowledge to must make the steps to use it. It is see how to use it that maybe just as big of a problem.

Here in my state we have usually about a 25% dropout rate in high school to which the state has on the law books that a student can quit school at age 16. The governor of our state recently went on record asking to just change the age to 18 in order to keep these kids in school. But this does not solve the reason for why a student must feel that he or she should quit in the first place.

DonPanic · 2005-11-09 17:01:05

DonPanic
You are not alone with what you see from the poorer areas of your nation. Even in America we can find much of the samethings with respect to the many that are unemployed, the poor living conditions and as a teacher you are to be commended for putting yourself out there to make a difference. To try to effect change though education but those you give this knowledge to must make the steps to use it. It is see how to use it that maybe just as big of a problem.
Here in my state we have usually about a 25% dropout rate in high school to which the state has on the law books that a student can quit school at age 16. The governor of our state recently went on record asking to just change the age to 18 in order to keep these kids in school. But this does not solve the reason for why a student must feel that he or she should quit in the first place.

When I give physical science lessons to these boys and girls which lack education, I always ask them to handmake experiments, and first to handmake tools of exprimentations, for example, building and assembly from raw material by themselves the trebuchets they will use to measure weights. I think that it's very important for these children which are too poor to have intelligent toys such as Lego or Meccano to devellop handskill as well as scientific and mechanic knowledge, if ever they want to find a handjob later on. And I always try to conceive lessons as an entertainment for kids as well.
Each time they get proud of what they did with their own hands, I think I didn't waste my time.

Find the mistakes...and see why we laughed at some foreign TV reports. Vive CNN and GoogleEarth

Commodore · 2005-11-09 17:33:56

I've been keeping an eye on this, and I must say its very disturbing because the "punishment" does not fit the "crime".

These people have been treated as second class citizens (in France) for 40 years, completely dependant on welfare, and they come completely inhinged because 2 idiots got themselves snapped? At least there was actual evidence of police brutality in the Roodney King case. The police didn't even touch these kids. The only way you can go nuts about this is if you think your kids are somehow above French law.

I'm sorry, but something else has got to be going on here. If you don't like government policy, economic, social, or otherwise, you don't just go around burning things. That You sit in front of Chiracs house and yell hell no we won't go, or something like that. These people are skipping steps.

Something more sinister is going on. Somehow these people, all over the country, at the same time, are getting the idea that this is going to help. And given the age and education level of these people, its not historical knowledge of the French love affair with the white flag. This isn't just boys being boys. You can guess who is using this non-event to stir up trouble.

DonPanic · 2005-11-09 18:29:57

LO

I've been keeping an eye on this, and I must say its very disturbing because the "punishment" does not fit the "crime".
These people have been treated as second class citizens (in France) for 40 years, completely dependant on welfare, and they come completely inhinged because 2 idiots got themselves snapped?

First, is a question : why 2 kids feared so much police that they endangered they lives to try to escape if police wasn't usualy very rough at arab native kids ?
It was first reported that these two kids where listed by police as usual delinquents which is absolutely false.
This added to the previous Mr Sarkozy (our equivalent for a State Secretary for inland security) speeches claiming he would "karcherize suburbs" set fire in the two boys district, teens interpretating the two deaths as the begining of the "karcherization" policy.

The only way you can go nuts about this is if you think your kids are somehow above French law.

Feeling in youth is that police is above laws, be true or not. As an ordinary citizen, I have this feeling too, I've often seen police cars outpassing red traffic lights with no alarm sounds on, what means that they weren't in any state of emergency.
Police is supposed to respect laws, and traffic lights, by the way.

I'm sorry, but something else has got to be going on here. If you don't like government policy, economic, social, or otherwise, you don't just go around burning things. That You sit in front of Chiracs house and yell hell no we won't go, or something like that. These people are skipping steps.

Almost all the french citizens think that the kids went completly mad

Something more sinister is going on. Somehow these people, all over the country, at the same time, are getting the idea that this is going to help. And given the age and education level of these people, its not historical knowledge of the French love affair with the white flag. This isn't just boys being boys. You can guess who is using this non-event to stir up trouble.

The Police "general survey services" say that there is no terrorist organization behind these events, Ulemas and all muslim authorities published fatwas to condemn any act of violence against other peoples' and public goods, in vain.
Objectively, there is a police usual harassment at black and arab origin youth which is far enough to rise these kids wrath.
In France, number of african or arab originated policemen as well as politicians is ridiculously weak compared with the rate of african and arab originated people in the population. This is a very heavy governmental fault.

Commodore · 2005-11-09 22:40:21

LO
First, is a question : why 2 kids feared so much police that they endangered they lives to try to escape if police wasn't usualy very rough at arab native kids ?
It was first reported that these two kids where listed by police as usual delinquents which is absolutely false.
This added to the previous Mr Sarkozy (our equivalent for a State Secretary for inland security) speeches claiming he would "karcherize suburbs" set fire in the two boys district, teens interpretating the two deaths as the begining of the "karcherization" policy.

They didn't fear for their lives, they feared getting caught. A lot of suspects run cause they think they get away with it. They rarely do. And whats the average police officer going to think when a couple teens break out in a dead sprint?
Enless these kids have reason to fear for their lives when under arrests, or the police intentionally herded them into that substation, this is much ado about nothing, and these kids deserve a darwin award.

Feeling in youth is that police is above laws, be true or not. As an ordinary citizen, I have this feeling too, I've often seen police cars outpassing red traffic lights with no alarm sounds on, what means that they weren't in any state of emergency.
Police is supposed to respect laws, and traffic lights, by the way.

So that excuses the mass destruction of private property? A police car running a red light?

The Police "general survey services" say that there is no terrorist organization behind these events, Ulemas and all muslim authorities published fatwas to condemn any act of violence against other peoples' and public goods, in vain.
Objectively, there is a police usual harassment at black and arab origin youth which is far enough to rise these kids wrath.

Right, because kids in 300 French towns, Belgium, and Germany, are all such buddies that they all risk serious jail time, injury, and when if police ever get their act together, death, to help each other burn stuff. And they all have such pride in their old countries that they abandoned them in search of a better life. And they love France so much that they are burning it down. Islam and their crappy situation are the only things unite them. And they figured out the connection. The riots are in defense of who they are, Muslim. If islamic extremists are not exploiting this now, they will.

In France, number of african or arab originated policemen as well as politicians is ridiculously weak compared with the rate of african and arab originated people in the population. This is a very heavy governmental fault.

No one will argue that. The question is how do you deal with. Do you allow the communities in question to police themselves? Try to buy them off with more wealth redistribution? Admit you don't want France to turn into Eurarabia and ship them someplace else?

DonPanic · 2005-11-10 07:37:46

Feeling in youth is that police is above laws, be true or not. As an ordinary citizen, I have this feeling too, I've often seen police cars outpassing red traffic lights with no alarm sounds on, what means that they weren't in any state of emergency.
Police is supposed to respect laws, and traffic lights, by the way.
So that excuses the mass destruction of private property? A police car running a red light?

The way you argue sounds like intention prosecution, I don't like it at all. You make me very angry at you.
I just say that there is a feeling that xenophobiac part of police and mainly his chief, Mr Sarkozy, have not so clean hands, manipulating opinion by letting fire go on, then playing the role of a he-man strong firemen chief, when fire spreads, this to serve his aim to be elected as "president of the republic"
Trying to understand and explain why teens went mad doesn't mean that french population, neither I, forgive violent acts nor don't support repression.
I think that we should have sentenced to jail the violent kids' parents, as being fully responsibles for their kids behaviour, this would have stopped all firesettings by minor kids much sooner.

The Police "general survey services" say that there is no terrorist organization behind these events, Ulemas and all muslim authorities published fatwas to condemn any act of violence against other peoples' and public goods, in vain.
Objectively, there is a police usual harassment at black and arab origin youth which is far enough to rise these kids wrath.
Right, because kids in 300 French towns, Belgium, and Germany, are all such buddies that they all risk serious jail time, injury, and when if police ever get their act together, death, to help each other burn stuff. And they all have such pride in their old countries that they abandoned them in search of a better life. And they love France so much that they are burning it down. Islam and their crappy situation are the only things unite them. And they figured out the connection. The riots are in defense of who they are, Muslim. If islamic extremists are not exploiting this now, they will.

Rioting kids are far from being all muslims, you assimilate ordinary muslims with islamic extremists which are'nt real muslims whenever they target muslims or christians or even jews in terrorist acts, this is forbidden by Koran. Its equivalent to say that the NAZIS are the same as the democrat-socialists because they call themselves "national-socialists"

In France, number of african or arab originated policemen as well as politicians is ridiculously weak compared with the rate of african and arab originated people in the population. This is a very heavy governmental fault.
No one will argue that. The question is how do you deal with. Do you allow the communities in question to police themselves? Try to buy them off with more wealth redistribution? Admit you don't want France to turn into Eurarabia and ship them someplace else?

First, we'll never allow self lawying, we'll never admit any sharia court in France.
We want french laws and french police to be respected upon all the french territory. But we want a balanced police which doesn't harass anyone for the very color of one's skin.
Wealth redistribution is a poor substitute for self wealth by getting a decently paid job the government is unable to create the conditions for.
The fact is that in Aubervilliers, a place where do live lots of muslim country originated people, located half a mile from my home district, you can see the eldest ones drinking BEER or WINE, as any french citizen at the cafés terraces.

Palomar · 2005-11-10 14:18:21

France's image abroad hurt

In the United States, outspoken commentator Bill O'Reilly, whose show runs on the conservative Fox television network, said the violence "makes Hurricane Katrina look like a comic book."
For nearly two weeks, he said, French President Jacques Chirac "has allowed the insurrection to build in ferocity, refusing to use his military, allowing anarchy in the streets."
He was not the only one to refer to the hurricane that pounded the US Gulf coast at the end of August, and which exposed what many critics charged was a lingering racial divide in Washington's response to the devastation.
"The French had a field day with Hurricane Katrina ... when that confirmed their prejudices about Americans," said Jean-Benoit Nadeau, a Canadian who has co-authored a book on French society.
"Today, the Anglo-Saxon press is having a field day with what is happening in France because it also confirms prejudices about French society."
...
Not just in the English-speaking world.
"The France of the 21st century makes you think of the ancien regime," said Thomas Schidinger of Vienna's Institute of Political Studies, referring to the pre-revolutionary era of wealthy nobility and impoverished populations.
"It's as if the people in power are saying, a little like Marie-Antoinette, 'not got a job? Take a holiday then'."

DonPanic · 2005-11-10 17:20:21

LO
First, I'm not a Chirac supporter, IMHO, the only positive he did was not to engage french soldiers as targets in Iraq.
With Bush poor answer to Katrina and british citizens throwing terrorist attacks at their own country, Blair facing economic growth joining the french and german poor ones, a rejection by his labour left wing on some of his antiterrorists laws and is unabble to get any EU majority of countries agreement as EU temporary leader, french events are a very good derivative, aren't they ?

For nearly two weeks, he said, French President Jacques Chirac "has allowed the insurrection to build in ferocity, refusing to use his military, allowing anarchy in the streets."

If it's Fox peews, it's manipulation. What shows that Bill O'Reilly is a liar and Fox reporters ignorants which don't investigate and know absolutely nothing about what they talk about is that the French National Gendarmerie which acts against rioters is the french inland Army. It's military, administrated by MINISTRY OF DEFENSE.
Mr Murdoch always hatred froggies, constantly campaining french bassing in his british media group, he'd better teach journalism to his TV reporters.
Chirac did nothing partly because Mr Sarkosy is his personnal ennemy.
As I already said, soldiers are equiped for lethal fight, not to reset order.

Laurence Parisot, leader of the French employers' organisation Medef, said the country's image was being "deeply damaged."

Funny, the french employers' organisation Medef which struggles to reduce as many employees number as they can, and are the firsts to refuse to give jobs to ethnic minorities dare comment a situation they are mainly responsible for...Surrealistic !

Here, we have very stupid problems to face, because of governmental improvidence:in two years, there will a lack of more than 10000 doctors in France just because not enough places for students in medecine universities had been planned.
None can say that authorities hadn't every needed statistics to be aware of this problem.

DonPanic · 2005-11-10 19:51:09

Some geographic precisions for CNN journalists

Lille is not on the british channel coast
Strasbourg is not Munchen in Bavaria
Toulouse is not in Switzerland
Lyon is not in Massif Central mountains
Cannes is in french riviera, not placed instead of Marseilles

DonPanic · 2005-11-12 14:09:43

LO
I'm pleased to know that France is listed by Bush administration as a country which doesn't respect religious freedoms.

Nothing to do with the islamic veil affair. By the way, the European Court of Justice just said that Turkish laws banning islamic veils out of turkish universities didn't discriminate peoples and were fully respecting the rights of men Bill.

The main reason is that scientologists have been considered in France as dangerous a sect. French Scientology Churh leaders have been condemned for crookery, premeditated violences, illegal medecine practice, and some other illegal behaviours such as falsely pretending that their schools had Natonal Education authorities agreement, paying doctors which sent patients to the Scientology Churh.
French law considers that it's illegal to make money out of influenceable peoples, abuse of weakness is punishable.

Commodore · 2005-11-14 16:53:45

But I thought the French Loved Tom Cruise.

Anyway, its nice to see Chirac using the numbers of cars burned as a measure of success against the rioters. Nevermind that the affected areas are probably running out of cars, or people are parking them out of reach.

"The Germans arn't taking any more territory! We gave the rest of it to them."

Grypd · 2005-11-14 18:23:29

What this trouble is doing is simply turning France more and more towards the right of the political spectrum. The far right are certainly enjoying this but no political authority or party has gained anything from this, yet.

John Creighton · 2005-11-14 21:32:27

But I thought the French Loved Tom Cruise.
Anyway, its nice to see Chirac using the numbers of cars burned as a measure of success against the rioters. Nevermind that the affected areas are probably running out of cars, or people are parking them out of reach.
"The Germans arn't taking any more territory! We gave the rest of it to them."

I think you are probably wrong but anyway.

DonPanic · 2005-11-15 04:30:24

But I thought the French Loved Tom Cruise.

The French will like any american actor speaking few words of french, and will love all americans which speak french

What this trouble is doing is simply turning France more and more towards the right of the political spectrum. The far right are certainly enjoying this but no political authority or party has gained anything from this, yet.

That's not as simple. Strong majority of the Frenchies both approve governmental tough action at carblasters and their families and disagree with cuts the government made in social helps to the wrecked suburbs as well as they all know that high unemployment rate is the main society illness causes.

Rxke · 2005-11-15 07:45:30

LO
I'm pleased to know that France is listed by Bush administration as a country which doesn't respect religious freedoms. ....
....The main reason is that scientologists have been considered in France as dangerous a sect. .

heehee, ditto in Belgium.

In the news now, because a freaked-out Scientologist with powerful Sci. parents is being trialled for murder here... Apparently, he was raised in Sci. schools etc. and that is supposed to be a big cause of his errr... 'freakyness'

Mundaka · 2005-11-15 10:43:10

DonPanic · 2005-11-15 18:53:13

But I thought the French Loved Tom Cruise.
Poor Tom, first he gets compared -- unfavorably -- to Richard Gere, now he gets compared to Jerry Lewis.

Why not Travolta ?

Commodore · 2005-11-16 16:18:16

But I thought the French Loved Tom Cruise.
The French will like any american actor speaking few words of french, and will love all americans which speak french.

I only mention it because I remember some American actor went to France not long ago and got a medel for being famous or something.

DonPanic · 2005-12-12 16:38:07

LO
Please would you tell me if
unlimited homephone calls + cable TV + unlimited 10.Mbps Internet for about 30$ per month would be seen as expensive in USA ?

Palomar · 2005-12-12 17:10:10

LO
Please would you tell me if
unlimited homephone calls + cable TV + unlimited 10.Mbps Internet for about 30$ per month would be seen as expensive in USA ?

*No; it'd be a bargain.

My husband and I pay:

$25.00 per month unlimited homephone calls
$45.00 per month cable TV (regular programming; no additional fancy packages)
$21.00 per month for internet access

--Cindy

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