New Mars Forums

dicktice

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2002-11-01

Posts: 1,764

Re: Zubrin Terraformation Interview - ...courtesy universetoday.com

Assuming Bush & Co are voted out of office. will "The Bush Plan" live on to immortalize him as the originator? Neither Zubrin nor von Braun nor even Kennedy, have been given such recognition. "Moon-Mars Plan" or something like that, would be preferable to giving that so-and-so a free ride, historically.

Gennaro

Member

From: Eta Cassiopeiae (no, Sweden re

Registered: 2003-03-25

Posts: 591

Re: Zubrin Terraformation Interview - ...courtesy universetoday.com

It does bother me, though, that Zubrin seems careless -- no, strike that:  He seems *rash* (no harm in bluntness) -- in that particular comment which CC quoted.  Actually, I'm surprised CC agrees with Zubrin (given various comments Cobra's made in the past with regards to fascism).

Cindy, you're not alone in being curious about how Cobra fits some of his views together. Particularly in regard to posts where he more or less takes a up a libertarian position.
I thought fascism and libertarianism were as close to mutually exclusive as you could possibly get.

Mr Commander, I'd love to hear you step up on the soap box on this. Care to indulge me? It's allright, just take as deep a breath as you like.

Karov, good showing. Agree on most what you said about not expecting Mars colonization to be a re-run of 1776. I've been on it before but I'll refrain from it this time, or I'll start sounding like a broken record. (Some people might think that's already the case, but for other reasons.)

By the way, you don't happen to be the Bulgarian fellow (I believe) from the Nuclear Space board? Like to remember you had some good posts on there as well.

Scott G. Beach

Banned

Registered: 2002-07-08

Posts: 288

Re: Zubrin Terraformation Interview - ...courtesy universetoday.com

Rxke:

You asked, “So, Scott, do i understand this right you in fact propose Mars to be some kind of 'socio/political' lab environment, and have everyting set up in a way an enourmeous amount of flexibility is actually possible and actively encouraged from day one?”

Yes, “Socio/political laboratory environment” is an apt description of The Euthenia Project, http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … /sosse.htm  The City of Euthenia would be an “experimental community” in the sense that behavioral scientist B. F. Skinner used that term.  In a science-fiction novel titled Walden Two, Skinner wrote, “The main thing is, we encourage our people to view every habit and custom with an eye to possible improvement.”  This is the “main” idea of Walden Two and the implementation of this main idea produces a society full of cultural revolutionaries who are always looking for better ways to do things.  This idea of continuous improvement is also found in the quality management systems promoted by the International Standards Organization (ISO).  Within the last few years, NASA has adopted ISO management systems so I believe that the folks at NASA would feel comfortable with what I am proposing.

You wrote, “...the evolution towards some kind of sociopolitical system doesn't fit with NASA/Earth politicians, that could cause some problems, to say the least.”  Yes, there could be political frictions between Euthenians and their sponsors, but the international nature of The Euthenia Project would tend to inhibit any one sponsoring nation from demanding that Euthenian culture evolve in a particular way.

It has occurred to me that my design for New Euthenia might cause the people of that settlement to regard their settlement as a terraforming machine, and to regard themselves as components of that machine.  This “cog in the machine” mind-set might prevail for several hundred years, until the atmosphere of Mars is breathable and people can begin to establish individual family farms and think of themselves as “rugged individualists.”  Whatever happens, I am sure that the Martian worldview will evolve in synchrony with the Martian ecosystem.

---

"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern."  Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942

karov

Member

From: Bulgaria

Registered: 2004-06-03

Posts: 953

Re: Zubrin Terraformation Interview - ...courtesy universetoday.com

Karov, good showing. Agree on most what you said about not expecting Mars colonization to be a re-run of 1776. I've been on it before but I'll refrain from it this time, or I'll start sounding like a broken record. (Some people might think that's already the case, but for other reasons.)

By the way, you don't happen to be the Bulgarian fellow (I believe) from the Nuclear Space board? Like to remember you had some good posts on there as well.

Yes, Gennaro I`m Karov from the nuclearspace.com discussion board. I`ve wandered also whether you are the 'Gennaro' from there. As I remember you were pro-nuclear swedish, a? Nice to 'see' you again in an interesting board. Waiting for your comments!  As I remember you had quite interesting and original ideas and thinking!

The americans has very shallow view on the history. They deliberatelly decided to cut off the pre-american bigger part of the history which possesses each their citizen in order the american identity paradigma to step on clearer soil. This was a mistake. Such way they loose the right perspective that the northamerican colonies were just temporaly released under european leadership, because of certain minor internal problems as WWI and WWII, which already are solved and the biggest economy on Earth EU soon will be ready again to be Hegemone...   :-)

The last was a joke, dear american fellows. In confirmation-- it occurs that we, the bulgarians, will remain your only partner in Iraq except UK (which is in EU BTW ).