Languages - Parlo Italiano - What langauge should be the Official?

dicktice · 2003-03-28 15:22:50

World government, by all means--why re-invent the bloody wheel (and I do mean bloody).

clark · 2003-03-28 17:55:05

Better, why don't create a new language ?

Depending on how things develop, a new language will arise.

First generation children living in mixed linguistic surroundings develop hybrid languages, better known as "piegon". From these, new words are introduced, new gramatical rules, etc.

This is all hard wired in our brains as children.

You will also see a new variant on language in terms of meaning and context of certain words.

A rubber means one thing to an American, and quite another to an Australian (condom versus eraser)- yet it is the same word, imbued with different meaning.

Such will be the experience of a future Mars.

Josh Cryer · 2003-03-28 18:48:01

Uh huh... ?Mars-an.? :laugh:

New cultures do generally expand their vocabulary in whatever way, but these expansions rarely make it into law language. In both AU and the US, a condom or rubber would be a ?contraceptive and STD prevention device worn by the male during sexual intercourse or any explicit act where fluid transmission is a risk.? Creating a new language for Martian laws, explicitly, seems like reinventing the wheel (slang language expansion will occur regardless). I'm not suggesting that one suppress new language creation, quite the contrary, I have always maintained that any language should be allowed, and whatever happens happens. It's just that a good intermediate language is still obviously the logical position to take.

clark · 2003-03-28 18:49:55

Spoken like a true Hu-man.

A.J.Armitage · 2003-04-13 13:13:48

So shouldn't Mars have the perfect language? I say Yes.

There's no such thing as a perfect language.

If you ever invent one, don't let anyone learn it, it it'll stop being perfect.

Palomar · 2003-04-13 17:08:03

By the time we get to Mars, we'll all have wrist translators, so what's the beef?

*Oh yeah? And what happens if you lose your wrist translator...or drop it and it breaks...? Uh oh. :;):

--Cindy

Charno · 2003-04-13 20:56:52

An "official language" is a stupid idea. What the hell would you need that for?

foadi · 2003-04-13 20:58:16

An "official language" is a stupid idea.

You can say that again.

- foadi(se) de la Ter-Rani

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-13 21:35:29

Um, I recall recently a thing where a spanish majority in a town wanted the documents printed in Spanish as well as English. The conservatives in said town said something along the lines that English was the offical language and so on. So it wasn't allowed.

So, should these spanish people had the documents printed in Spanish too? Or is the town morally correct in saying that English is the offical language? How about we apply some real world scenarios before we make pointless 6 word comments?

Charno · 2003-04-13 21:37:06

Um, I recall recently a thing where a spanish majority in a town wanted the documents printed in Spanish as well as English. The conservatives in said town said something along the lines that English was the offical language and so on. So it wasn't allowed.
So, should these spanish people had the documents printed in Spanish too? Or is the town morally correct in saying that English is the offical language? How about we apply some real world scenarios before we make pointless 6 word comments?

Documents? What documents? You mean like books? Then people will decide if printing them in spanish will make them a profit. If you're talking about government documents, I despise though, and don't think they should be printed at all. So it's a non issue for me.

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-13 21:39:19

Ahh, sorry, I thought I said government documents. Oh, okay, so we'll just throw out government, makes sense. Good answer!

Charno · 2003-04-13 21:40:28

Ahh, sorry, I thought I said government documents. Oh, okay, so we'll just throw out government, makes sense. Good answer!

Thanks.

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-13 23:00:00

Doesn't make arguments for an offical languag illegitmate, though, as you laughably suggest.

Charno · 2003-04-14 19:15:12

Doesn't make arguments for an offical languag illegitmate, though, as you laughably suggest.

Why? What do you need an official language for, if not for government documents and crap?

soph · 2003-04-14 19:30:10

Oh no, Charno is anti-government too. Well, let's see, why do we need an official language? Why do we need an official currency?

The answer is quite simple. If everyone speaks a different language, or pays in different money, nothing will happen societally, economically, or scientifically. You don't have to ban other languages, but you should have a language that everyone should know.

Remember the NASA mission that was lost due to different measurements? Now, wouldn't it have been easier if there had been a single, official measurement system?

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-14 22:23:05

Charno and foadi are not anti-government, they're pro-mob state. They believe in a state, this is why the live on the idea of guns and the wild west. They just think that they're anti-government/state.

I reckon they're both no older than 20. Shame a 16 year old can show them up (soph).

MarsGuy2012 · 2003-04-15 00:20:06

soph,

Ever heard of the Peso, Yen, Euro, Ruble, Deutchmark, Colon...(my spelling is probably way off)
Ever heard of English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Italian, German, French...

There are things called "currency exchange" and "translation".

Many different languages and currencies exist and a lot of stuff gets done.

The whole NASA debacle is just because the organization couldn't decide on which system to use at the time. Really stupid mistake - but I gaurantee it won't happen again.

On Mars I would just encourage everyone to learn as many languages as possible. BTW, in America well into the 1830s or even later local banks were printing their own money. America was doing quite well before and after that time. I think a variety of languages and currencies actually help keep society and the economy vibrant.

soph · 2003-04-15 04:36:47

There's a reason Europe switched to the Euro, and America uses a uniform dollar. If interstate commerce was done with multiple currencies, it would grind to a halt. Foreign currency exchange is hard enough (although most nations I know accept the dollar), which is why most countries have standard currencies.

I have to run now, I'll finish the post later.

Palomar · 2003-04-15 06:34:46

Charno and foadi are not anti-government, they're pro-mob state. They believe in a state, this is why the live on the idea of guns and the wild west. They just think that they're anti-government/state.
I reckon they're both no older than 20. Shame a 16 year old can show them up (soph).

*Yep. I guess some folks just refuse to study, much less learn from, the lessons of history. I'm no great lover of government myself, but we know what total absence of government leads to: Mob rule/hysteria (as you point out), lynchings, vigilanteeism, etc. Government to an extent (which should be kept as minimal as possible) is necessary, considering how human behavior can be. People in general refuse or cannot govern their own lives and behavior; thus, government forms and intervenes. That's reality as defined by humankind throughout the ages.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-04-15 07:29:42

*Addendum: In line with Josh's last reply and my previous one to his: I just recalled a book I read years ago, about goings-on (true events) in the "old wild west" (I live in what was once that region of the nation)...a cowpoke was gunned down at a restaurant table by an irate gunslinger who thought Mr. Cowboy slurped his soup too noisily. A different gunman shot down a stranger passing by. The "reason"? Mr. Gunman thought Mr. Stranger's clothes made him look like a "sissy."

That's not the sort of atmosphere I'd care to live in, i.e. someone thinks you looked cross-eyed at them and {blam!} you're dead...and they can get by scot-free doing it, because there's absolutely no law and no government.

Violence against women would skyrocket as well; I wouldn't care to be fodder for rape gangs and I suspect most other women wouldn't either.

--Cindy

A.J.Armitage · 2003-04-17 21:21:14

soph;

If everyone speaks a different language, or pays in different money, nothing will happen societally, economically, or scientifically. You don't have to ban other languages, but you should have a language that everyone should know.

Study a little history. There have been plenty of places with multiple currences (like colonial and early independent America) where lots got done. Not only were there lots of foreign currencies in circulation, there were state currencies. And no, the American economy did not grind to a halt because private citizens were too stupid to keep track of multiple currencies. The reason they adopted an American currency was, first, to express America's new nationhood (and the Euro is an attempt to create a European nationhood, BTW). Second, the state currencies were unsatisfactory for reasons I'll go into later.

There have also been plenty of places with multiple languages, and lots got done. The UN has multiple working languages. Then again, nothing much gets done there. :laugh: There have been probably hundreds of multilingual societies in history. Most have had a dominant language, but typically one that emerged naturally. Or people could learn each others' languages. Or a pidgin will emerge. Whatever happens, it's not your place to tell other people what words they're supposed to know.

Remember the NASA mission that was lost due to different measurements? Now, wouldn't it have been easier if there had been a single, official measurement system?

It would have been easier if NASA had a single, official measurement system (they probably do and just failed to follow it). It's none of your business whether someone wants to measure things in pounds or kilograms.

If interstate commerce was done with multiple currencies, it would grind to a halt.

It WAS done with multiple currencies, both foreign and domestic. As I noted above, the state currencies were unsatisfactory. This wasn't because people got confused, it was because the states debased their currencies. A national currency was supposed to prevent that from continuing (and under the gold standard it actually worked).

I'm not an anarchist, but a minarchist, but the person who thinks you showed them up is smoking something.

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-17 21:32:21

I think the basic point is that currency exchange and language translation is ?harder.? I see nothing wrong with this argument, especially in the face of someone elses argument which consists of something like ?let's end government, everything will magically work better.?

edit: also, I could really use a smoke...

A.J.Armitage · 2003-04-17 21:41:13

His basic point was that currency exchange and translation mean "nothing will happen societally, economically, or scientifically". If you want to soften that all the way to just saying it'll be harder, then you're making sense. If it's harder, it's still not anyone's place to decide which words and grammatical constructions people have to know or which currency that have to transact in. (BTW, the dollar is not required to be accepted as payment by anyone except the government. That's up to private agreement, although stores open to the public must take dollars unless they specify otherwise in a posted policy.) Either people will settle on a general standard, or bear a little extra cost.

Josh Cryer · 2003-04-17 21:47:36

You're right, of course, I was just annoyed because I felt they were trolling (wasn't it obvious?). I just wanted to clear that up, beacuse I don't exactly agree with the whole ?life would halt as we know it if everything wasn't offical? sentiment. I've said before that individual trade would probably occur via simple reciepts and personal transaction histories. I see no real reason for an offical exchange system other than to make things easier.

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Re: Languages - Parlo Italiano - What langauge should be the Official?

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