Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

RobS · 2004-09-20 20:47:18

I didn't take that idea of KSR seriously. The ice dome roof would need a lot of support to prevent collapse. But one could certainly melt tunnels in ground ice or ice cap and then inflate insulated habs in them.

-- RobS

Dook · 2004-09-20 20:50:12

What is the benefit of doing that? Does the ice serve as a way to keep the pressure in?

Seems to me a dome outside would be better. Don't have to worry about the ice melting and caving in on you.

Rxke · 2004-09-21 03:44:39

What is the benefit of doing that? Does the ice serve as a way to keep the pressure in?

Yes, If you use heat insulating fabrics or plastics you could pressurize the stuff as 'hard' as you want, what witt tonnes upon tonnes of stuf above your head...and other advantages:

Massive radiation protection,

And melting tunnels might be simpler than drilling tunnels in rock... Might.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-21 08:09:48

What about a base of inflatable design that is then covered by the Mars regolith.

http://www.space.com/php....golith.

The Fed Man · 2004-09-21 08:19:59

http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/newhome/he … lectricity

What about this. This could produce enough energy for a local magnosphere.

Another colony design I Liked is roofing a canyon. Since you already have walls and floor the roof is all you need. I think this was from KSR as well. Could this one work?

RobS · 2004-09-21 17:02:52

Sure, it could work, and housing built even against the cliffs (let alone inside them) would experience a large crop in cosmic radiation because of the rock around.

Closing the top of the canyon is the easy part. You'd build a "reverse suspension bridge" with cables anchored deep into the rock to hold down the dome itself.

The harder part would be preventing air from leaking into the regolith around you. You might have to spray the canyon sides with a plastic to reduce air losses. The floor could either have a plastic sheet under the soil layer or a water table/ice table. Soak the ground beneath the root layer and the bottom will freeze, greatly reducing air loss. Of course, it'll take many months, maybe a year, to thaw out a layer of ground thick enough to plant plants in the ground, and the regolith would have to be treated to eliminate superoxides and wash out salts. I suspect flooding with fresh water will do it for bothj problems. Heavy metals (arsenic, for example) could be a problem also. They could be removed using genetically modified plants that pull them out of the ground.

-- RobS

John Creighton · 2004-09-21 17:09:26

What about a base of inflatable design that is then covered by the Mars regolith.

Oh, that is kind of neat how they have that central window.

The Fed Man · 2004-09-21 21:59:26

I don't see how air could leak out of a solid rock cliff. Would this happen though?

John Creighton · 2004-09-21 22:17:35

I don't see how air could leak out of a solid rock cliff. Would this happen though?

I think some rock is porous. I know concrete is porous unless it is sealed.

Grypd · 2004-09-22 04:16:46

This happened to the Biosphere experiment when there air pressure kept going down and down as the air was absorbed by materials in the Biospheres makeup. In the end the crew had to have extra air put in to keep them alive. One other side effect was to destroy the natural balance they had tried to have in the Biosphere, some things did very well and some not.

One other point when the Biospheres crew came out they where malnourished stressed out individuals, One of the early victims was the friendly relationships the crew had with each other.

SpaceNut · 2015-11-29 10:44:47

Fixed another shifting topic and its artifacts

With that I have done a quick review and we are doing it again in that we are creating new topics that we have already discussed the building materials, structure, atmosphere, radiation,ect...

We aught to be taking the time to search out existing topics that we want to post to.

These older topics do have lots of resouce information and numbers to support where we should go.

SpaceNut · 2015-12-07 23:00:43

In a construction topic GW spoke of a mushroom shaped habitat to counter the air pressure forcing the blocks to seperate or to leak the internal air that we need to survive.
In the Mars Resource topic Void has talked about making a body of water on top of the habitat.

I had suggested that we could make a geodesic dome out of glass panels inset into a metal frame.
We could place that inside of the much large tuna can to create all the counter pressure needed to keep the dome from floating as well as making it air tight. The shape would have an air lock to the outside through the wall to the surface for entry into the habitat.

In fact if we land in a tuna can we can just make the outer shell and we have the same thing with less work once we have water to fill it.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-05-29 03:17:42

Mr Musk also said that the space industry should ‘consider the next step beyond space stations’
https://www.independent.co.uk/space/elo … 51517.html
Scientists are exploring the Hawaiian lava as if it were on the surface of Mars
https://amicohoops.net/scientists-are-e … e-of-mars/

Ancient Easter Island communities offer insights for successful life in isolation
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-ancient-e … ssful.html

Grypd wrote:

This happened to the Biosphere experiment when there air pressure kept going down and down as the air was absorbed by materials in the Biospheres makeup. In the end the crew had to have extra air put in to keep them alive. One other side effect was to destroy the natural balance they had tried to have in the Biosphere, some things did very well and some not.
One other point when the Biospheres crew came out they where malnourished stressed out individuals, One of the early victims was the friendly relationships the crew had with each other.

Old link to news article and
'TED clip from the Jane Poynter who was inside Biosphere II'.
https://mcouts2.com/what-was-biosphere- … d-it-fail/
She briefly talks about the mental impact of trying to re-adjust to normal life again.

Also Mutiny?
https://www.spacelegalissues.com/biosph … xperiment/
'The second mission in 1994, which was supposed to last ten months, was cut short by vandalism committed by two members of the crew in reaction to the billionaire’s decision to release Allen from his obligations.'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-05-29 03:32:45)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-06-18 10:49:10

NASA serves up $750,000 to Deep Space Food Challenge winners in cook-off for astronaut eats
https://www.space.com/nasa-deep-space-f … lenge-2023

A mix of men and women in an artificial dome.

Man made Biospheres

some of the biggest issues and drama with Biosphere II seem to have been human politic issues, the crew have been mentioned again in media the newspapers and sites especially taking notice of 'Bannon'.

Jane Poynter farming on Biosphere 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7B39MLVeIc

After Biosphere 2's first mission, extensive research and system improvements were undertaken, including sealing concrete to prevent the uptake of carbon dioxide. The second mission began on March 6, 1994, with an announced run of ten months. The crew was Norberto Alvarez-Romo (Capt.), John Druitt, Matt Finn, Pascale Maslin, Charlotte Godfrey, Rodrigo Romo and Tilak Mahato. The second crew achieved complete sufficiency in food production.

On April 1, 1994, a severe dispute within the management team led to the ousting of the on-site management by federal marshals serving a restraining order, and financier Ed Bass hired Steve Bannon, then-manager of the Bannon & Co. investment banking team from Beverly Hills, California, to run Space Biospheres Ventures. The project was put into receivership and an outside management team was installed for the receiver to turn around the floundering project. The reason for the dispute was threefold. Mismanagement of the mission had caused terrible publicity, financial mismanagement and lack of research.

Some crew members and staff were concerned about Bannon, who had previously investigated cost overruns at the site; two former Biosphere 2 crew members flew back to Arizona to protest the hire and broke into the compound to warn the crew members that Bannon and the new management would jeopardize their safety.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 … -2-arizona

At 3 a.m. on April 5, 1994, Abigail Alling and Mark Van Thillo, members of the first crew, allegedly vandalized the project from outside,[68] opening one double-airlock door and three single door emergency exits, leaving them open for about 15 minutes. Five panes of glass were also broken. Alling later told the Chicago Tribune that she "considered the Biosphere to be in an emergency state ... In no way was it sabotage. It was my responsibility." About 10% of the Biosphere's air was exchanged with the outside during this time, according to systems analyst Donella Meadows, who received a communication from Alling saying that she and Van Thillo judged it their ethical duty to give those inside the choice of continuing with the drastically changed human experiment or leaving, as they didn't know what the crew had been told of the new situation. "On April 1, 1994, at approximately 10 AM ... limousines arrived on the biosphere site ... with two investment bankers hired by Mr. Bass ... They arrived with a temporary restraining order to take over direct control of the project ... With them were 6-8 police officers hired by the Bass organization ... They immediately changed locks on the offices ... All communication systems were changed (telephone and access codes), and [we] were prevented from receiving any data regarding safety, operations, and research of Biosphere 2." Alling emphasized several times in her letter that the "bankers" who suddenly took over "knew nothing technically or scientifically, and little about the biospherian crew".

https://web.archive.org/web/20161115233 … wyer-says/

http://www.biospherics.org/biosphere2/chronology/

https://web.archive.org/web/20140819090 … dward-bass

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/05/us/t … -dome.html

Four days later, the captain Norberto Alvarez-Romo (by then married to Biosphere 2 chief executive Margaret Augustine) precipitously left the Biosphere for a "family emergency" after his wife's suspension. He was replaced by Bernd Zabel, who had been nominated as captain of the first mission but who was replaced at the last minute. Two months later, Matt Smith replaced Matt Finn.

The ownership and management company Space Biospheres Ventures was dissolved on June 1, 1994. This left the scientific and business management of the mission to the interim turnaround team, who had been contracted by the financial partner, Decisions Investment Co

Mission 2 was ended prematurely on September 6, 1994. No further total system science has emerged from Biosphere 2 as the facility was changed by Columbia University from a closed ecological system to a "flow-through" system where CO2 could be manipulated at desired levels.

Steve Bannon left Biosphere 2 after two years, but his departure was marked by an "abuse of process" civil lawsuit filed against Space Biosphere Ventures by the former crew members who had broken in. Leading managers of Biosphere 2 from the original founding group stated both abusive behaviour by Bannon and others, and that the bankers’ actual goal was to destroy the experiment. During a 1996 trial, Bannon testified that he had called one of the plaintiffs, Abigail Alling, a "self-centered, deluded young woman" and a "bimbo". He also testified that when the woman submitted a five-page complaint outlining safety problems at the site, he promised to shove the complaint "down her throat". Bannon attributed this to "hard feelings and broken dreams". At the end of the trial, the court ruled in favor of the plaintiffs and ordered Space Biosphere Ventures to pay them $600,000, but also ordered the plaintiffs to pay the company $40,089 for the damage they had caused.

Poynter was a developer of the crew and life-support systems for the Inspiration Mars free-return mission to Mars planned for launch in January 2018. The two person spaceflight mission was originally to be a private, nonprofit venture of 501 days duration which will allow a small human-carrying spacecraft to use the smallest possible amount of fuel to get it to Mars and back to Earth. However, this plan proved unworkable without significant funding and assistance from NASA

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … n-science/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science … 8-15152667

https://web.archive.org/web/20130510095 … 553876.xml

Poynter has been an invited speaker at events hosted by groups such as the United Nations Environment Programme, the US Environmental Protection Agency, TEDx, National Space Symposium, NASA, MIT, and Microsoft.

NASA grows flower in space, shares image of bloom on social media

https://www.wionews.com/science/nasa-gr … dia-604097

We're lucky that the moon had no dangerous microorganisms, because the Apollo 11 quarantine didn't work
https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/we-re-l … -1.6443807

Martian Samples on Earth, Planetary Protection from Contamination Becomes Hot Issue
https://spaceref.com/science-and-explor … amination/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-06-18 10:49:35)

SpaceNut · 2023-06-18 12:03:04

nice to see words for the biosphere as this is why a cell construction is problematic.

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#51 2004-09-20 20:47:18

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#52 2004-09-20 20:50:12

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#53 2004-09-21 03:44:39

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#54 2004-09-21 08:09:48

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#55 2004-09-21 08:19:59

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#56 2004-09-21 17:02:52

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#57 2004-09-21 17:09:26

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#58 2004-09-21 21:59:26

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#59 2004-09-21 22:17:35

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#60 2004-09-22 04:16:46

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#61 2015-11-29 10:44:47

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#62 2015-12-07 23:00:43

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#63 2021-05-29 03:17:42

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#64 2023-06-18 10:49:10

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

#65 2023-06-18 12:03:04

Re: Constructing a larger settlement - One idea

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