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GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Heh that's funny... and no.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Then what killled his cat when the laser photons hit it?

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Then what killled his cat when the laser photons hit it?

Erm... what laser photons?

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Perhaps this one:

[http://prst-ab.aps.org/pdf/PRSTAB/v6/i1/e011001]http://prst-ab.aps.org/pdf/PRSTAB/v6/i1/e011001

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Perhaps this one:

[http://prst-ab.aps.org/pdf/PRSTAB/v6/i1/e011001]http://prst-ab.aps.org/pdf/PRSTAB/v6/i1/e011001

I have not time to read the full article now, can you summarize the relevant sections?

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

It talks about the Compton effect when electrons are hit by photons from the beam. If it effects the electron it must also effect the proton when it is hit by the photon..

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

It talks about the Compton effect when electrons are hit by photons from the beam. If it effects the electron it must also effect the proton when it is hit by the photon..

Then I don't see the relevance to Schrodinger's Cat!

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

What force holds the electron in orbit around the proton?

John Creighton

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 2,401

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

The electron is held in place by coulomb forces. It can’t stay just anyway though because it must form a standing wave.

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Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

As an electron breaks away from a proton do the coulomb forces tend to to drag the proton in the direction of the electron?

John Creighton

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 2,401

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

It probably wouldn’t be significant. Electrons are much lighter.

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Dig into the [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/2006/12/political-grab-bag.html]political grab bag[/url] at [url=http://child-civilization.blogspot.com/]Child Civilization[/url]

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

An electron IS a wave though, going back to DeBroglie's wave nature of matter. The electrostatic force is only signifigant over fairly short distances, so if the electron moves away quickly there is little time to influence motion.

Because of the electron's unique behavior, as far as I know only it can interact with photons in the way you want Errorist, i've never heard of laser manipulation of Protons. If such an accelerator were efficent, i'm sure that it would be in use today for science work because of how useful that would be. Its not in use, because it doesn't work.

---

[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

ERRORIST

Member

From: OXFORD ALABAMA

Registered: 2004-01-28

Posts: 1,182

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

That is because man is to stupid to figure out how to make it work. But It will work once it is figured out.BTW electrons are particles.

GraemeSkinner

Member

From: Eden Hall, Cumbria

Registered: 2004-02-20

Posts: 563

Website

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

That is because man is to stupid to figure out how to make it work. But It will work once it is figured out.

But who will then figure it out, if man is too stupid to do so?

---

There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

There are things in the universe which cannot be proven beyond doubt... this I grant you... but when a theory is constructed and defined that predicts and corrolates with an observed physical occurance, then it is probably correct. From theories we can predict other things, such as how photons don't interact with protons like electrons, that must be true unless the theory is wrong. Since the theory is probably right, therefore, we can say with good certainty things concerning related though not nessesarrily observed happenings.

Man may not be all knowing, but he isn't incapable of deducing truth.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

Topic is not what I thought it was going to be from the title but the jest of discusion is why a Solar sail can not work and why it can as the particles mass and speed with the number of them which can hit a target translate to a momentum summed being applied to the sail.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Photon---->Ion---->Acceleration

ESA and IENAI Space unveil innovative electrospray propulsion for small satellites

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/ESA_ … s_999.html

In a significant advancement for small satellite propulsion, the European Space Agency (ESA) and IENAI Space, a Spain-based technology firm, have introduced an innovative electrospray propulsion system known as ATHENA (Adaptable THruster based on Electrospray powered by Nanotechnology). This pioneering technology, designed to enhance the maneuverability and longevity of CubeSats and similar small satellites, has recently achieved over 400 hours of continuous operation, marking a milestone in the field of satellite propulsion.

The core of ATHENA's design lies in its seven emitter arrays, each meticulously etched onto a silicon wafer using advanced micro- and nano-technology. These arrays comprise more than 500 pinhole-sized emitters, which discharge ions at high velocities. The ions are accelerated using an electrostatic field, maximizing the thrust generated by the system. This approach is not only inherently scalable but also stands out for its mass- and cost-efficiency, making it particularly suitable for CubeSats and other small-scale satellites.

Paper preview

the 'Prospects and physical mechanisms for photonic space propulsion'
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-018-0280-7

Laser-driven creation of high-energy ions boosts next-gen accelerators
https://phys.org/news/2023-03-laser-dri … oosts.html
The system works by firing a laser at a plasma to accelerate it and create the electric field. However, usually the plasma is opaque to light, meaning the laser only interacts with the plasma surface that it first strikes before bouncing off.
However, for very intense lasers, the target electrons are accelerated to close to the speed of light, dramatically changing the refractive index and allowing the laser to enter the now transparent target. When this happens, the laser interacts with the entire target, and is almost completely absorbed. This generates an extreme induced electric field which accelerates target ions in the laser direction.

'Using Sunlight to Power Deep Space Exploration'
https://www.nasa.gov/smallspacecraft/what-is-acs3/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-24 16:25:20)