Food! - Marsians=vegetarians?

C M Edwards · 2002-06-19 11:59:01

Hello BGD.

You wrote:

You said that from 400 kg of biomass we will have 100 kg of edible food. But how about the rest 300 kg? Couldn't we feed it to the animals? Well, at least some of it... And wouldn't that even lower a little bit the 100 sqm limit? And by animals i don't mean only mammals...
And i just remembered something. Somebody said that the same amount of plants needed to feed 1 person can provide oxygen for 3 ! persons. Isn't this another reason why we should try to raise some sort of animals?

A good deal of the remaining 300kg could conceivably be fed to animals. But it could also be composted. Martian soil is doubtless going to need a lot of humus and only a small amount of "starter formula" can be brought from Earth at a time.

Even so, I don't see why we couldn't have a little bit left over for small animals. I like the idea of rabbits, because they'll eat garden "scraps" and have other advantages. They are relatively efficient at breaking down certain types of plant matter and, unlike many animals, their dung is easily composted. If you have any worries about them exceeding the carrying capacity of 100m^2, relatively small colonies of them can still replace their numbers fast enough to serve as a food source.

My only trouble with them is they weigh a lot. Though they are fine once you actually get them to MArs, IMHO, we might do better to take the weight of equipment & materials needed to send 20 rabbits to Mars and send a greenhouse with soil-starter and seeds for a year's complete crop in their place.

CME

Palomar · 2002-06-19 15:18:06

we can't forget snails and earthworms (altough earthworms have to crawl in cornmeal for 24 hours before eating. Don't ask. )

*Ugh! Don't worry...I won't ask. Reminds me of my sister's favorite childhood book, though: "How to Eat Fried Worms." I never read it myself, so don't know what that kiddie book was about exactly.

The only situation I'd consider eating bugs or worms is if the alternative were starvation. If it came down to eating spiders, however, I guess I'd starve.

--Cindy

C M Edwards · 2002-06-20 11:50:52

Does anyone know of any efforts to grow plants at the Mars Analog Research Stations?

CME

Michael Bloxham · 2002-06-21 17:58:41

One word: Spirulina.

Spirulina represents the most effecient foodsource in the known universe. It can be grown in relatively small vats, while converting carbon-dioxide into oxygen at better-than-wheat rates. It is the most nutritious food on the planet, its metabolic rate is off the charts, and it can be dried for easy stowage. Perhaps it may not taste all that swell, but it can be flavored and can be made into/combined with a multitude of (More Appealing) food products.

Phobos · 2002-06-21 19:45:14

What kind of plant is Spirulina? Is it a leafy plant or is it like fungi or something else? Never heard of it, not under that name at least.

C M Edwards · 2002-06-23 07:20:24

Indeed, but note that a lot of claims about superior nutritional value of spirulina are demonstrably hokum.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel … algae.html

It's cheap and easy to grow, and may even be suitable as a staple food. But it is not suitable to be the _only_ staple.

CME

HeloTeacher · 2002-07-02 00:57:09

Yes, I've done a little on-line research into Spirulina as well, after hearing it championed in some circles. I found a host of warnings of toxic content and numerous medical government agencies have issued health warnings and tried to have its use limited. Makes one a little wary.

If a suitable equivalent is found, it WOULD make a very good addition to the mix.

A.J.Armitage · 2002-07-23 13:30:52

About caffeine, couldn't you engineer bacteria that make it? If you could, you can just make it in vats.

C M Edwards · 2002-07-24 11:44:46

I would prefer to reserve vat space for higher priorities, like liquor.

CME

A.J.Armitage · 2002-07-24 22:28:34

I would prefer to reserve vat space for higher priorities, like liquor.

CME

I like the way you think, but they'll probably want more caffeine unless it's Martian New Year's Eve or the anniversary of the first landing, because it's easier to work buzzed than drunk.

noctis · 2002-09-29 12:29:51

i remember hearing something once about the advantages of small goats as a food source, obviously far less energy efficient than veggies, but maybe for special occasions?
apparentlythey have good conversion efficiency for mammals
and are not fussy about what they eat + do not take up much space, although i would think something like mealworms would be a better choice, insects generally have a higher proportion of usable protein by mass than mammals
in reality i think soya would suffice

AltToWar · 2002-09-29 19:04:58

Fish and Hydroponics make a nice contibution to eachother.

We could have Sushi bars on mars!

RobertDyck · 2002-09-29 22:34:42

I imagine veggie burgers will be a big deal on Mars. Animal feed will always mass more and provide more calories than the meat they provide. Until we can afford vast pressurized fields, we will have to make do with a vegetarian diet. Besides, Harvest Burgers taste quite good. Yves brand doesn't taste as good, but I kept a package label. Their burgers include soy protein product, wheat gluten, wheat protein product, canola oil, cane juice, carrageenan (from kelp), salt, malt extract (that's usually from barley), spices, yeast extract, vegetable gum, potato starch, konjac flour (makes you feel full), rice starch, beet root powder, vitamins, calcium pantothenate (preservative), reduced iron, and zinc oxide.

On Mars we could do without the low nutrition konjac flour that just absorbs water to expand and fill your stomach. We could do without the preservative as well; just mix a batch within a week before you cook it. We could easily grow soy, wheat, canola, sugar cane, kelp, barley, potatoes, rice, beets, and kelp. As I recall, Harvest burgers used brown rice liquor. Yves veggie ground round includes oat bran.

Of course, if you establish a tank to grow kelp, you can easily add fish. You would have to balance the ecosystem, but that sounds like farming.

Palomar · 2002-09-30 10:48:13

i remember hearing something once about the advantages of small goats as a food source, obviously far less energy efficient than veggies, but maybe for special occasions?

*I think it'd be great to have small goats in a Marsian settlement; they are such interesting animals. However, I've begun to wonder if it'll be feasible to have such animals on Mars anytime soon, considering how much even one goat eats per day...even if plants and some grasses are growing in Marsian "hot houses" rather well.

It would, however, be a "fun fact" to note who was the first settler to get rammed in the butt by a goat!

Yes, it would behoove someone on Mars to jot down little notables like that!

--Cindy

Palomar · 2002-09-30 10:55:42

I imagine veggie burgers will be a big deal on Mars. Animal feed will always mass more and provide more calories than the meat they provide. Until we can afford vast pressurized fields, we will have to make do with a vegetarian diet. Besides, Harvest Burgers taste quite good. Yves brand doesn't taste as good, but I kept a package label. Their burgers include soy protein product, wheat gluten, wheat protein product, canola oil, cane juice, carrageenan (from kelp), salt, malt extract (that's usually from barley), spices, yeast extract, vegetable gum, potato starch, konjac flour (makes you feel full), rice starch, beet root powder, vitamins, calcium pantothenate (preservative), reduced iron, and zinc oxide.

*Ugh. I'm not going to Mars until a Wendy's is there!

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-01 05:44:45

If we're going to be bringing goats along, what about my herd of cows?!

I think Cindy's concept of "snoozing moo-stronauts" deserves further consideration!

Phobos · 2002-10-03 18:17:27

What exactly is "yeast extract", do they squeeze the poor yeast for its juice? Doesn't bring appetizing images to mind.

If we're going to be bringing goats along, what about my herd of cows?!
I think Cindy's concept of "snoozing moo-stronauts" deserves further consideration!

I think you mean your concept of snoozing moo-stronauts needs further consideration. Cindy was talking about bah-stronauts.

AltToWar · 2002-10-03 21:15:37

What exactly is "yeast extract", do they squeeze the poor yeast for its juice? Doesn't bring appetizing images to mind.
If we're going to be bringing goats along, what about my herd of cows?!
I think Cindy's concept of "snoozing moo-stronauts" deserves further consideration!
I think you mean your concept of snoozing moo-stronauts needs further consideration. Cindy was talking about bah-stronauts.

"yeast extract" = Yeast Poo

RobertDyck · 2002-10-04 04:12:15

Yeast extract is a portion of the yeast. For example, it could be just cell walls to provide concentrated lipids. Waste product of yeast metabolism is alcohol. If you want to get crude, yeast piss is beer, wine, whiskey, etc.

RobertDyck · 2002-10-05 16:55:07

I just went grocery shopping and noticed Yves has a whole line of soy products. In addition to Veggie Burgers, they have Veggie Ground Round, Veggie Chick'n Burger, Veggie Chick'n Nuggets, Veggie "Neatballs", Veggie Dogs, Hot'N' Spicy Chili Veggie Dogs, Tofu Dogs, Veggie Turkey Slices, Veggie Balogna Slices, Veggie Salami Slices, Veggie Ham Slices, Veggie Breakfast Links, Canadian Veggie Bacon, Veggie Pizza Pepperoni. They even have a line of veggie imitation cheese slices: Cheddar, Swiss, Jalape?o-Jack, Mozzarella, and Canadian flavour.

The cheddar flavour slices contain water, casein, organic soybean oil, natural flavour, organic soy flour, sodium citrate, salt, guar gum, citric acid, sodium phosphate, tricalcium phosphate, beta carotene, sorbic acid. Casein is a lactose free milk protein. It is the main constituent of cheese, and is formed by adding the enzyme rennin to milk. It can also be made from soybeans. Considering Yves makes a big deal of being lactose free and the label says "Casein Soy Product", that means they use soy. Guar is a plant, and guar gum is often used as a thickener.

So let's see, with veggie cheese and veggie pepperoni, add some tomato paste and flour from wheat together with baking soda and bakers yeast, and it sounds like pizza. This sounds like quite a diverse menu, all without animal products.

Palomar · 2002-10-05 17:10:16

Jalape?o

*Jalapenos in Canada? Cool. Now, can you tell me what a chile relleno is, Mr. Robert?

Okay, other than water [obviously] and powdered milk, what other BEVERAGES [powdered] are possible for our Marsian astronauts? There's Tang [I remember Tang was taken on the Apollo flights, and it was touted as "The Drink of Astronauts" on TV commercials in the early 70s]; fruit juices can be powdered...I mean, it will get VERY boring if the largest quantities of drinkables are reconstituted moo-juice and H20.

Any other suggestions?

--Cindy

P.S.: Maybe we've touched on this before, and I've forgotten...if so, my apologies.

RobertDyck · 2002-10-05 23:35:14

To answer your challenge, chile relleno is stuffed chile peppers; quite delicious. I have traveled a bit; although I was born and spent most of my life in Winnipeg, I lived 3 years in Toronto, a total of 1 year in Calgary, 6 months in Chester Virginia (a suburb if Richmond), and 10 months in Miami Florida. I found southerners were supprised to find Canadians drink their ice tea with lemon and very sweet.

The answer of what drinks to bring to Mars depends on whether you are talking the first manned mission, or colonization. Again, I think the first mission will recycle oxygen and water, and bring dehydrated food. The greenhouse will be an experiment for the first mission, and any produce it delivers will be a bonus. You can bring any beverage in dry form: fruit drink flavour crystals, instant coffee, or instant hot chocolate. You can even bring real tea to brew a pot. You could bring a little real coffee, but since the grounds have waste the mass is less efficient than instant. If you do bring any real coffee grounds, you would want one of the metal mesh permanent filters.

For a colony the greenhouse will mean survival. Rangpur is a variety of orange; the fruit is 2 inches diameter and very tart. Technically it is a lime, although the colour is orange. My sister had one growing in a pot in her living room; fully grown it is about 8 feet high including pot. You can also grow grapes for fuit, grape juice, or wine.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-06 00:36:01

"Bah-stronauts" .... Very droll, Phobos !!

I'm not too sure about 'Tang', Cindy. I remember there was some consternation about the amount of flatus suffered by many of the Apollo astronauts on the moon missions. Apparently it was the result of all the reconstituted orange juice they were drinking.
With 4, or possibly 6, people in a confined space for maybe 2 or 3 three years, and fresh air at a premium, I think we need to consider potential problems like this!!

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