Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

atomoid · 2004-11-19 04:51:32

I tended to thik the aquifer was dead notion since the snowpack melt hytpothesis seemed to better explain the high point emergent point of the water source higher than the surrounding terrain, although http://images.spaceref.com/news/2004/20 … 7.gif]this photo surely suggests an aquifer. perhaps multiple types of liquid water origins exist on mars.

im guessing for the snowpack icemelt hypothesis to be true, then the burns cliff would probably have to be on the most out-of-sun part of the crater... is it?

however, a permafrost-based source of water would melt and seep out of crater walls and dry up and get dry-weathered and look much like it does today.

here are the http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1N1539 … .html]best clouds yet. might the clouds ever reach precipitation conditions today on rare occasions?

check out the fine detailed microlayers on the http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1P1537 … html]scrap of rock at lower right. somehow, it looks relatively fresh like it tumbled down the slope and came to rest perched atop the other rocks mere decades ago

C M Edwards · 2004-11-19 06:13:37

Aquifers can be pressurized here on Earth. A sudden drop below the boiling point by being vented to the Martian air would create a good bit of pressure. So, an outlet higher in the crater wall, while a little odd, does not surprise me.

Thermal imaging of the rocks in Burns cliff suggests that it is an outcropping of basaltic-origin rock in the crater. However, the rover's infrared spectrometer can't distinguish between igneous, metamorphic, or sedimentary rock, just rough chemical & crystalline composition. Judging by the layering, I'd guess that Burns Cliff is an outcropping of basaltic sandstone. They should try the infrared spectrometer up close, allowing them to further differentiate the rock layers and get a better idea of what's under the dust in those channels.

Sandstone can be quite permeable, and probably underlies the entire Meridiani area.

The dunes in the crater center are apparently not shot through with ice. (Darn!) They can be ignored if necessary. However, I should point out that the most likely reason for their odd albedo is that they are composed of sand from the erosion of the crater wall.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-19 07:03:13

I would say those rocks are of the same type found at the other crater since the blueberries are by the millions in them and weathering out.

C M Edwards · 2004-11-19 11:57:02

Endurance is likely a dry hole, but there's good reason to believe it stopped only in the last few thousand (hundred?) years at the earliest. Some of the evidence for water activity would be covered, otherwise.

The permafrost vs. aquifer argument can't be decided with the evidence at hand. Although the presence of water-worn fissures below unbroken rock layers suggests an aquifer, those are very close to the surface. There may be no upper cap of protective, confining rock. The entire water table could simply be permafrost, with little pockets melting here and there.

The next projected destination is the large crater to the south. Sending Opportunity closer toward the highlands is probably not an effective way to look for water in general, but a significantly deeper crater (which seems to have a lot more in the way of rock outcroppings) might be worth the detour.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-19 12:46:33

Will it be able to negotiate the walls and get to the bottom?

Shaun Barrett · 2004-11-20 02:23:22

I read somewhere today that it's late northern summer now on Mars - doesn't time fly when you're enjoying yourself!?

I know global dust storms arise most frequently in the southern spring/summer because of the coincidence of southern summer with Mars' perihelion. So, does that mean we have only a few months until the dust storm season really gets under way? And will Opportunity get to Victoria crater in time to do some useful science before anything happens?
???

Time for Oppy to pick up her skirts and move it along!

C M Edwards · 2004-11-20 13:36:21

:laugh:

Indeed, Opportunity's done enough damage around this crater. Time for the next one!

atomoid · 2004-11-20 16:39:58

those meddling Earthlings, aka. the "teenagers of the galaxy", racing their remote control toys around, messing up pristine craters and such.

So i guess we should expect that global dust storm to crop up on mars before Opprtunity makes it to Victoria crater. Ddoes the dust pose any threat to communications?

It will be interesting to see how dusty it seems to get from the rovers-eye point of view... and how much more dust can we expect to see get deposited on the solar panels as a result? or maybe its not that bad from the ground so might we still be able to see the stars at night?

Palomar · 2004-11-20 16:47:30

::scratches head::

You know, we've had at least 4 different people take turns establishing the latest "Spirit & Opportunity" thread in the "Unmanned Probes" folder; and everyone has the chance to create the next thread in that series when the current one hits around 250 posts.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure why the excellent discussions taking place in this thread are taking place here, instead of the current thread devoted to S & O.

Also, ERRORIST, I'm unsure why you often create threads which merely branch off the original discussion. Why not just stick to the -original- discussion?

--Cindy

ERRORIST · 2004-11-20 18:38:34

I think because they go off on tangents so I figure its time to start a new one.

Palomar · 2004-11-20 20:15:58

I think because they go off on tangents so I figure its time to start a new one.

*I sincerely disagree.

Have you even followed the current thread for the MERs ("Opportunity & Spirit *8*")? It has stayed the course; it and its predecessors.

You seem to have a tendency to start new threads at whim about topics which already have a thread established for them. You started a separate thread for the Mars rock "Wopmay" -- after 2 people had already posted about it in the current MER thread.

(You've already done this as well concerning Titan, when in fact we're currently on the 2nd Cassini-Huygens thread which also deals with Titan of course)

Creating unnecessary "branch-off" threads regarding a topic for which a thread already exists and which continues to serve its purpose is what's going off on a tangent, IMO.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2004-11-20 20:58:19

Hmmm. Good point, Cindy.
Branching off at a tangent unnecessarily with new threads will only make a difficult job harder when trying to find old posts in future.
I didn't realise I was contributing to the potential confusion myself. Thanks for pointing it out.
I'll try to watch where I'm posting from now on - give me a swift kick in the shins if I stray again.

ERRORIST · 2004-11-21 00:11:03

Yea, I wanted to create a different thread because it would be going of on a tangent and really not related to that one.So I started a new one.

C M Edwards · 2004-11-21 13:23:15

I think I posted in the right spot.

Given a choice between starting a new thread to devote 60 or so posts to an important topic not yet covered or burying those same 60 posts among the approximately 2000 to 2500 in the Opportunity & Spirit *Iteration x* threads, I chose to put the information where I can find it.

Ordinarily, trying to keep on-topic aids clarity. But once you get past a certain amount of data, "on-topic" just becomes an excuse to throw more on the crap catcher. I'm sure that this whole topic was well discussed in the other threads you mentioned. Finding that topical discussion and piecing it together into a coherent whole in less than a week, I'm not so sure about.

Same goes for every other topic in those other threads. It needs to be broken up into managable pieces.

(Yes, I know I should just quit bitching and index the NewMars forum... *grumble* *grumble* :hm: Only way to solve the problem, but it's the work of months... Might be worth it though...)

I sense another thread coming on!

ERRORIST · 2004-11-21 21:41:30

This thread is a classic example of how a thread can go off topic. I guess I'll start a new thread similar to the original thread.

Tholzel · 2005-07-30 12:03:57

Can you see what looks like alluvial deposits (Fans) at the base of these channels?
it does indeed look like some minor washout debris curtain at the bottom of the channels but we need a closer look to be sure of the
nature of it. From this far away its hard to tell if its not just debris built up through waterless erosion being the blueberries and pebbles
carving the channels instead of water. The dark stuff in the channels might just be blueberries instead of stains or mineralization
deposited by water. Also, from this perspective its hard to tell if the channels were originally cracks that got weathered or if
they originated as erosion carved channels...

I guess you see what you want to see. To me those fans look like fine dust that has poured down after it collected in the dark cracks during a dust storm.

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#51 2004-11-19 04:51:32

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#52 2004-11-19 06:13:37

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#53 2004-11-19 07:03:13

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#54 2004-11-19 11:57:02

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#55 2004-11-19 12:46:33

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#56 2004-11-20 02:23:22

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#57 2004-11-20 13:36:21

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#58 2004-11-20 16:39:58

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#59 2004-11-20 16:47:30

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#60 2004-11-20 18:38:34

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#61 2004-11-20 20:15:58

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#62 2004-11-20 20:58:19

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#63 2004-11-21 00:11:03

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#64 2004-11-21 13:23:15

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#65 2004-11-21 21:41:30

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

#66 2005-07-30 12:03:57

Re: Closer view of springs inside Endurance crater.

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