New Mars Forums

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

Cindy:-

*Is such a thing even possible to begin with?   ???

    I have my doubts.
    But I suppose it depends on the shape of the hole. If the hole is a regular cylinder, i.e. with walls that go straight up and down, it's hard to imagine it being stable; I think the possibility of cave-ins would be a constant cause for concern. Also, there's the problem of logistics - you'd need strong cables to haul the dirt out when you got down toward your target depth.

    A safer shape would be a truncated cone, with walls at, say, 35 degrees - or whatever the 'Angle of Repose' of dirt on Mars turns out to be. The Angle of Repose is the maximum  angle of slope of a pile of dirt or sand (or whatever), beyond which it spontaneously slides. But then, the volume of crustal material you'd have to remove to dig such a hole would be very large, even if the bottom of your cone came to a point - i.e. no flat area to move around on.
    I calculate that the absolute minimum amount of material you would have to remove would be 194,646 cubic kilometres (or 46,698 cubic miles) ...
    .. That's a lotta dirt!!   

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,222

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

Start with a natural formed hole such as a volcano or very large crater for part of the work is already done.

deagleninja

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2004-04-28

Posts: 376

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

Spacenut, actually I was thinking of hauling an asteroid into orbit (if Mars' moons are off limits) with a solar sail over the coarse of a decade and then using railguns to launch decent sized rocks at our target until a respectable depth is reached. We probably wouldnt have to go the full 45K either. That was for a full bar of air pressure. Plants get by with a third or less of air pressure. Plus the scientist didn't take into consideration the creation of a heatsink.

LtlPhysics

Banned

From: north of the equator

Registered: 2004-02-24

Posts: 76

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

That's the smart way.  No crazy trips to asteroids.  No massive expenditures that ruin our childrens future.  And no star trek warp drive needed.    
   

The future Earth would have to be desperate in the extreme for whatever resources the asteroid belt has to offer. The future Moon and Mars, just a little less desperate.

Mining the asteroids to terraform Mars, itself a lofty notion, will be a task suited to begin in the 22nd century, more or less, and the incentive to do so would have to dwarf the incentive not to bother. The expense of the infrastructure is staggering.

But, there might be a few cowboy types that wouldn't mind life in a can and could sail a prime asteroid into Mars orbit, or shove it directly into the planet. That might happen, after Mars has been fully documented by the sciences and is desperate for metals and ice.

But, again, given enough robots and propulsion devices, Mars could eventually have a litany of mini-moons without too many cowboys on the payroll.

That said, 'colonizing' the asteroids is science fiction.

Grypd

Member

From: Scotland, Europe

Registered: 2004-06-07

Posts: 1,879

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

Mining the asteroids to terraform Mars, itself a lofty notion, will be a task suited to begin in the 22nd century, more or less, and the incentive to do so would have to dwarf the incentive not to bother. The expense of the infrastructure is staggering.

But, there might be a few cowboy types that wouldn't mind life in a can and could sail a prime asteroid into Mars orbit, or shove it directly into the planet. That might happen, after Mars has been fully documented by the sciences and is desperate for metals and ice.

But, again, given enough robots and propulsion devices, Mars could eventually have a litany of mini-moons without too many cowboys on the payroll.

No just plain common sense. We will need to make things to be able to move around and grow in space. If it is sent from the ground it is too expensive. And it is easy for the Asteroid miners to supply the Earth and since we need what the asteroids have someone sooner rather than later will do it

That said "colonizing" the asteroids is science fiction.

And sending man to Mars isn't? ???

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Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

LtlPhysics

Banned

From: north of the equator

Registered: 2004-02-24

Posts: 76

Re: .Colonizing Mars and the Asteroid Belt - Mars and Asteroids andPossiblecollisions

Colonizing Mars and colonizing the asteroid belt are not equivalent ventures. What kind of life would families have scattered about, limping from rock to rock in the asteroid belt? Humans are gregarious animals and they suffer when segregated from their own kind. I can't imagine an active human presence among the asteroids, save for a few cowboys. Colonizing Mars, on the other hand, is not nearly as bleak.

As an aside, by the time Earth is in dire need of the resources that can be found in the asteroid belt, we will have developed robotic systems that can sample a rock, chart a course and deliver a given load to a given location. The journey will probably take a few years, but the children won't miss their adolescence.

As a second aside, by the 22nd century the solar system will probably have robots near everywhere.