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#51 2005-06-21 00:17:27

Euler
Member
From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2003-02-06
Posts: 922

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japanese military and space equipment generally costs more than equivalent US equipment, not less.  Setting up an advanced industrial capacity requires a lot more equipment than many people seem to think, and it gets much worse if you stupidly build humanoid robots rather than using a simpler and more efficient design.

The Japanese Moon base plan looks like pure fantasy.

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#52 2005-06-21 06:15:24

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,859

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

100X? Huh?

Japan can hardly get their H-2A rocket to fly reliably

True they are having a problem with that launcher. Still it is something that they can solve and they have spent a lot of time to see what caused the problem and how to sort it.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#53 2005-06-21 06:32:35

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,859

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japanese military and space equipment generally costs more than equivalent US equipment, not less.  Setting up an advanced industrial capacity requires a lot more equipment than many people seem to think, and it gets much worse if you stupidly build humanoid robots rather than using a simpler and more efficient design.

The Japanese Moon base plan looks like pure fantasy.

Well if we look at Astronautix you will see that the H1 was a licensed version of the USA's Delta. It had a 100% launch success rate and cost in 1990 $90 million. The H2A though is a JAXA design and though it doubles the capacity to orbit the maximum cost is in 1990 prices $90 million.

The problem is the H2A failed once and there is a lot of research going into why. The basic H2 though was expensive and has since been cancelled. What appears to have happened here is that they spent a lot of money to get its design to work but designed to be made cheaply.

The problem is reliability but this can be improved.

And humanoid robots are the buisness of NASA as well as JAXA the Robonaut program will show you. It allows for the use of ready made tools instead of brand new indigenous ones for each type of Robot used. This saves a lot of time and money and allows for Human centric developments to be used too. And there is nothing to stop the use of a specific design for a specific purpose ie robotic dumpsters will not be humanoid. JAXA just plans to use the best shape for the best purpose.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#54 2005-06-21 10:13:59

Vir Stellae
Member
From: Cow Hampshire, USA
Registered: 2003-12-08
Posts: 83

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japanese military and space equipment generally costs more than equivalent US equipment, not less.  Setting up an advanced industrial capacity requires a lot more equipment than many people seem to think, and it gets much worse if you stupidly build humanoid robots rather than using a simpler and more efficient design.

The Japanese Moon base plan looks like pure fantasy.

Look at their F-2 Fighter plane.. It is basically a sexed up copy of the 30 year old US F-16 design, only they can't seem to make it cost less than an FA-22....

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#55 2005-06-21 10:46:33

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,859

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japanese military and space equipment generally costs more than equivalent US equipment, not less.  Setting up an advanced industrial capacity requires a lot more equipment than many people seem to think, and it gets much worse if you stupidly build humanoid robots rather than using a simpler and more efficient design.

The Japanese Moon base plan looks like pure fantasy.

Look at their F-2 Fighter plane.. It is basically a sexed up copy of the 30 year old US F-16 design, only they can't seem to make it cost less than an FA-22....

Yes the F2 has gone overprice but then again many programs have. This plane though it looks like an F16 is not an F16 it is larger and packing a much more advanced wing and avionics package, it is also partially stealthy. It also uses the F16s F110 engine it is this that encourages the F2 to be the shape it is. And since it was started as a partnership between the USA and Japan as an experimental programme it had a lot of changes.

Why has the cost overun occured well actually it is quite largely the fault of the united states goverment and lockheed martin the prime contractor. The United States refused Japan certain exports and insisted for the ones it did have that they be made by an American company.

And of lockheed martin it has not really recently had a good reputation when it comes to cost overuns look at the JSF as an example.

We will have to accept that the Japanese are a player in there own right in Lunar exploration and resource utilisation. If they do increase the budget of NASDA then it can do what it says. Differently than NASA plans but maybe no less effective.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#56 2005-10-01 18:30:24

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#57 2006-01-07 18:05:30

EuroLauncher
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-10-19
Posts: 299

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japanese haven't built a good plane since their miliarist airplanes of WW2, and even then they didn't build the best of stuff. The Mitsubishi-Kawsaki copy of the F16 is NOT a Stealth aircraft, the F-2 programme has seen much criticism and been controversial because the unit cost is roughly 4 times that of a Block 50/52 F-16 and because of issues with cost-efficiency, orders for the aircraft were severely curtailed in 2004, Taiwan, S.Korea, India and China are also trying to copy and rip-off other technology from foreign airfroces

But what about space, Japan trying to get JAXA back to its good days when NASDA wan't blowning things up and losing craft ?

Kyodo News agency reported that Japan plans to send up two spy satellites during fiscal 2006 ending in March 2007, citing unnamed government sources.
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ap … ysats.html
Noriaki Saito, an official of the Japan's space agency JAXA, could not confirm the report.
Japan launched two spy satellites in March 2003, but an attempt to send two more in November that year failed because of a defect in the rocket's booster system.

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#58 2006-01-09 23:58:59

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japan plans to send two more spy satellites into orbit by March 31, 2007, to strengthen the monitoring of movements in North Korea, notably its missile and nuclear development facilities, according to government sources.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/get … 0110b1.htm
If successful, Japan will have a total of four spy satellites in operation, together capable of taking a photo of any ground spot in North Korea once a day, up from the current once every two days.

Two spy satellites were placed in orbit with the domestically developed H-IIA rocket for the first time in March 2003.

But H-IIA launches had been put on hold following a humiliating failure minutes after liftoff in November 2003. Controllers had to detonate that rocket and its payload of two spy satellites in midair after a booster failed to detach


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#59 2006-04-12 00:29:34

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

is this a joke ?
http://www.pinktentacle.com/2006/04/rob … ot-battles
sometimes its hard to tell if the Japanese are serious or not

ROBO-ONE sets 2010 date for space robot battles
Translated by Edo on 2006.04.11 ::: Category: Robot, Space
At the ROBO-ONE competition held in Tokyo in March, organizers announced plans to begin holding its robot competition in space in the year 2010. According to the recently launched “ROBO-ONE in the Space” official website, the project aims to further the progress of robot technology and boost the value of engineers by embracing the coming era of robotics and space. By taking the battles into space, ROBO-ONE hopes to fuel dreams and create an environment that inspires people to become engineers.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#60 2006-04-12 04:41:34

MarsDog
Member
From: vancouver canada
Registered: 2004-03-24
Posts: 852

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

They seem really confident that they can get a lot more for their yen then NASA gets for their buck

Smart Japanese become Engineers.
Smart in USA become Lawyers, needed to control the Global Empire.

US uses Foot Slug System while Japan uses the Meter Kilogram System.
Slugs got US to the Moon at high expense but the future is lower cost Metric.

Better cars from Japan, soon better rockets also.

 

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#61 2006-04-13 11:26:42

publiusr
Member
From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

H-2B will be an R-7 class rocket if that. With payloads getting larger, R-7 is almost being considered a small LV--what with the new Alpha bus coming on.

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#62 2006-04-13 20:51:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,346

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japan Sets Up Team for Lunar Landing to send an unmanned mission to the surface of the moon, possibly within the next 10 years...

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#63 2006-06-11 15:06:38

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,859

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have announced a 5 billion yen investment to create the new HII-B Rocket.

Japans Mitsibushi Heavy to Invest 5 Billion Yen in Next Generation Rocket


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#64 2006-06-11 15:15:19

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have announced a 5 billion yen investment to create the new HII-B Rocket.

Japans Mitsibushi Heavy to Invest 5 Billion Yen in Next Generation Rocket

5 billion Yen = $43 million


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#65 2006-06-12 09:12:29

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 349

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

57 billion? Isn’t NASA’s budget only 40 billion. It is interesting that they said they will focus on a reusable vehicle like the shuttle. Hopefully it isn’t too much like the shuttle. If Japan develops a truly reusable launch vehicle and USA develops heavy lift between them they could have quite a space program.

I'm not so sure about this, their space program has gone backwards in the past few years

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#66 2006-09-14 14:14:22

EuroLauncher
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-10-19
Posts: 299

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japan can hardly get their H-2A rocket to fly reliably

With what rocket ? I've never seen the Japanese build an Energia or Saturn V launch vehicle

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf14-1.html

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#67 2006-10-27 12:57:23

publiusr
Member
From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have announced a 5 billion yen investment to create the new HII-B Rocket.

Japans Mitsibushi Heavy to Invest 5 Billion Yen in Next Generation Rocket

They understand the need to incease the size of LVs.

Too bad folks over here don't get it.

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#69 2007-04-12 21:06:47

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 349

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

First lunar orbiter launches in August
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ … 413a4.html

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#70 2007-09-30 13:24:23

EuroLauncher
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2005-10-19
Posts: 299

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Japan plans two more moon missions

Hyderabad, India (AFP) Sept 27, 2007
Japan plans to carry out two more missions to the moon and then collaborate internationally to put a man on the lunar surface, a Japanese space scientist said Thursday

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#71 2015-05-24 17:11:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,346

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Just found this screwed up topic doing the shifting will need to fix it for sure.... by removing the content post_uid from each to stop it from doing it....

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#72 2015-05-24 19:01:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 18,346

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Post made to indicate how much tme it takes to make all corrections manually....

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#73 2015-06-21 13:04:11

Grypd
Member
From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,859

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Well since we last talked on this post the Japanese HIIA has launched a further 20 times and one of those is the very successful SELENE mission to map the moon. It also gave us the Google map of the moon.

This means the HIIA is as reliable as the Arianne 5 and the Atlas V

And the much more capable HIIB is the one carrying the HTV spacecraft to the ISS

And the HTV is designed to support an L2 Human Outpost


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#74 2015-08-22 07:57:09

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

Countries that aren't tyrannical or run by the Communist Party seem to have trouble launching astronauts into space, the main exception being the United States until recently. Japan has spent  long time talking about setting up a manned Moon Base but so far hasn't acted on it. Maybe if the Japanese Emperor had some real political power it would happen.
JAPAN_EMPEROR1_1308065g.jpg
Emperors and people who might as well be an Emperor, seem more inclined to send people into space than elected officials
japan-prime-minister.jpg
Such as Japan's Prime Minister.
Do you know why that is?

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#75 2015-08-23 04:52:59

RGClark
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle

The ESA taking a cue from NASA's commercial crew program has decided to follow the commercial space approach to developing the new Ariane 6.

The Japanese space agency should also take this approach.

   Bob Clark

Last edited by RGClark (2015-08-23 04:56:21)


Nanotechnology now can produce the space elevator and private orbital launchers. It now also makes possible the long desired 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:
Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nano … 13319568#/

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