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dicktice

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2002-11-01

Posts: 1,764

Re: Van Allen Questions Human Spaceflight - Not another one...

Bloxham: I can't beleve Clarke--an oldtime radio engineering type--said something to the effect of what you wrote: "We need astronauts on Mars to do the science, but we don't need them in leo fulfilling Arthur C. Clarks 1950's vision of vacuum tube replacement men!" We used to dream of using gigantic envelope-less power handling vacuum tubes out there in LEO, young feller.

Martian Republic

Member

From: Haltom City- Dallas/Fort Worth

Registered: 2004-06-13

Posts: 855

Re: Van Allen Questions Human Spaceflight - Not another one...

Yes. But make it sensible. Bang for buck, please.

Exactly!

It's early in the morning so I'll probably ramble a bit, repeat myself, and generally seem like a crazed madman, but this point is essential not only on a quantifiable progress level but perhaps more importantly on an emotional level. It has to look like we're getting bang for the buck, even if we're not.

The idea of 'space exploration as an alternative to war' has come up here on occasion before, but always seemed to miss the real point. How do you get people to sign up for a war? Explaining the logical reasons for it is only part of the pitch, you have to make it glorious and elevate it to the height of virtue. Make it more than it is, romanticize it. This is what we are going to have to do for manned space exploration if settlement is to be our goal. Cold reasoning will only go so far, we have to make the people feel the need to settle other worlds.

How do you get people interested in space and to support a space program as an alternative to war?

You have to sell the benefits of a space program and/or colonization of space.

That means your going to have to have a vision of what we want to accomplish and we want something that will excite the imagination of the people that we are trying to convince.

We need to show how a progressive space program will benefit them and there children.

We need to show them that a space program is affordable and is an investment that will return on it investment many fold return on money invested in it.

Then having a President like John F. Kennedy that will push the plan, like his U.S. National moon mission program.

I realize that a tall order, but that what it will take.

And even then it might take one year to totally get a sufficient number of the American population on board, but once there on board, they will back it and will be excited about it.

Larry,

Cobra Commander

Member

From: The outskirts of Detroit.

Registered: 2002-04-09

Posts: 3,039

Re: Van Allen Questions Human Spaceflight - Not another one...

How do you get people interested in space and to support a space program as an alternative to war?

You have to sell the benefits of a space program and/or colonization of space.

But selling them on the benefits is only half the equation. We also have to make people want to do it for more visceral reasons. Go for the gut as well as the head.

That means your going to have to have a vision of what we want to accomplish and we want something that will excite the imagination of the people that we are trying to convince.

Yes, a bold vision. Colonizing Mars, making a new home for humanity, expanding our own culture and ideals into the universe. Conflict also doesn't hurt such motivations. "If we don't, the ChiComs will do it." But when we send those first people it absolutely must fit the vision. If we push Mars cities and send four guys that putz around in a can and a glorified minivan looking at rocks it just doesn't cut it. We need a bold vision and maybe some external pressure to get broad support, but to keep we need a massive effort that actually furthers the goal. A Martian Expeditionary Force of sorts.

We need to look at historical similarities. World Wars, America's Westward expansion, the European colonization of America. Manifest Destiny.

We need to show how a progressive space program will benefit them and there children.

Again, convincing someone that an action will benefit them and making them want to do it are two different things. Everyone knows they should invest that tax refund... but they want the bigscreen tv. Focusing too much on real arguments for colonization misses the point. People aren't motivated by reason so much as emotion, and when you really get down to it, the practical individual motivations for colonizing space are a bit shaky.

We need to show them that a space program is affordable and is an investment that will return on it investment many fold return on money invested in it.

It's not going to convince many people, there's too many layers between it and them. If government is involved, which it must be for such a big undertaking, no one will see it as an "investment" that they can expect a profit on. If we can make them see it as an investment in their civilization perhaps, one that will improve opportunities and overall quality of life, particularly if there's a belief that horrible things will happen to them or their children if someone else does it first. But then it's still under the weaker half of the equation.

Then having a President like John F. Kennedy that will push the plan, like his U.S. National moon mission program.

JFK's relevance to Apollo is vastly overblown. He wasn't the exploration-minded moon-crazed visionary he's made out to be and it's fairly likely that the program would have been dumped if he hadn't be assassinated. He's become part of the myth, given too much significance and distorting what really happened.

We need a large effort encompassing dozens of people in the first phase, quickly growing to hundreds, then thousands. An astronaut selection program that is open and based on merit for a specific range of tasks allowing more than eggheads with PhD's and military officers to go to create the idea that anyone can go.  Further, we need to market it right. Surely we can make a Mars astronaut at least as faux-heroic in the eyes people as is currently done with sports figures. Present it not as highly educated scientists doing research you don't understand with no practical applications at taxpayer expense, but as pioneers continuing American tradition in taming a new frontier. Make it something romanticized, something average Joes can understand and sink their teeth into. And If some Godless Communist Menace on the other side of the world wants to compete, all the better.

---

Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

clark

Member

Registered: 2001-09-20

Posts: 6,374

Re: Van Allen Questions Human Spaceflight - Not another one...

Image, as they say, is everything. Start off with a metaphor/symbol that is relatable to a target audience. It will have greater appeal if it can refrence historical mythos and closely resembles lessons learned from the general understanding of the story.

Hmmm... how about the Noah Project.   

Yeah, it's been done, but so what? We appropriate it for our own needs. Don't ask, just take.  :laugh:

So what might this entail? Well, in brief, a marketing plan. Selling Mars, and selling it today.

The end goal is to provide a real and concrete haven for the cultural, intellectual, historical, and genetic diversity of man.

What does that mean? Well, we work towards colonizing Mars with whatever minimum number of people can be agreed upon (say 10,000). We do so with the idea of creating a secondary repository for all of mankinds history, records, culture, etc.

Afterall, we never know when the Earth will succumb to some travesty, and our progress as a species is thrown back a thousand years. That is what we need to ensure against. The human species will more than likely survive just about any calamity- but it's the progress we need to hang on to. That's what we need to worry about.

So this becomes the rationale behind going to Mars. This is the rationale behind making it self-sufficient (so future Martians are in a position to help future Terrans, instead of being dependant).

Just a thought. 

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Van Allen Questions Human Spaceflight - Not another one...

I wondered just how long the russian were going to put up with Nasa and non payment for soyuz utilized to keep the ISS going. Not that much longer according to the AP. Russia Wants Payment for Space Trips
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....station