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#176 2005-07-27 10:20:10

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Sweet.
Despite it being pseudo 3D, i got a real feeling of depth in both Coprates Chasma and the crater!


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#177 2005-07-27 10:38:49

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Sweet.
Despite it being pseudo 3D, i got a real feeling of depth in both Coprates Chasma and the crater!

very good 8)

Mars radar experiment returns cryptic data
http://www.newscientistspace.com/articl … -data.html

The longest wavelengths are expected to penetrate as far as five kilometres below the surface, rebounding when they encounter a boundary between materials with different electrical properties - such as rock and liquid water.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#178 2005-07-27 10:49:02

Stormrage
Member
From: United Kingdom, Europe
Registered: 2005-06-25
Posts: 274

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Are the pictures real or an artist impression?


"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."

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#179 2005-07-27 11:31:00

aldo12xu
Member
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 2005-04-04
Posts: 31

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

As real as ESA can make them!  The source photo to each video is given on my videos page.

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#180 2005-08-02 03:31:39

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#181 2005-08-03 04:19:44

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

re: the cryptic data article YLR posted...

Looks like my doubs are becoming true...  sad
The problem is, they have no 'ground-truth' team on the surface. Similar Earth missions usually work together with a team that does drillings, measurements... on the surface itself, in order to calibrate readings.

Of course, no such thing here...

My prediction: inconclusive evidence, gazillions of interpretations, ranging from "we have huuuuuge liquid seas" to "there isn't a drop of H2O to find subsurface" (only slightly exaggerated)


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#182 2005-08-05 11:38:05

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

*Hot off the space.com wire:

August 5

Mars Express Radar Collects First Data

The sounding radar on board the European Space Agency’s Mars Express spacecraft, the Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionospheric Sounding (MARSIS), is collecting its first data about the surface and the ionosphere of Mars.

The radar started its science operations on July 4 following the first phase of its commissioning. Due to the late deployment of MARSIS, it was decided to split the commissioning, originally planned to last four weeks, into two phases, one of which has just ended and the second phase which will begin in December.

This has given the instrument the chance to start scientific observations earlier than initially foreseen, while still in the Martian night, the preferred environment for subsurface sounding. During the day, the planet’s ionosphere is more ‘energized’ and disturbs the radio signals used for subsurface observations.

From the beginning of the commissioning, the 160-foot-long (combined length) antenna booms have been sending radio signals towards the Martian surface and receiving echoes back. “The commissioning phase confirmed that the radar is working very well, and that it can be operated at full power without interfering with any of the spacecraft systems,” said Roberto Seu, Instrument Manager for MARSIS, from the University of Rome ‘La Sapienza’, Italy.

Is from their "Astronotes" section, column/updated format.  Had to copy and paste.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#183 2005-08-05 13:37:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,729

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Here is the Mars Express radar collects first surface data from the ESA site.

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#184 2005-09-07 12:03:08

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Biblis Patera Volcano

*Lies between Olympus Mons and Tharsis Montes.  Is 170 km long x 100 km wide, and rises 3 km above the surrounding landscape.  Its caldera measures 53 km in diameter and has a maximum depth of 4.5 km. 

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#185 2005-09-13 05:44:38

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Study:  Ice Belt Encircled Mars' Equator

Scientists say patterns of glacial activity on the planet may be a relic of an ancient belt of ice that formed about five million years ago due to a change in the tilt of Mars. That shift caused moisture from the poles to be deposited as snow at the equator.

*Short article.  Hmmmmm...

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#186 2005-09-15 05:35:34

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Trouble with PFS

*Planetary Fourier Spectrometer.  They're wondering if it's due to vibrational effects ensuing from spacecraft activities.  The troubles began a few months ago.  All other instruments are okay.  ESA is conducting a technical investigation.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#187 2005-09-15 06:43:58

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Trouble with PFS

*Planetary Fourier Spectrometer.  They're wondering if it's due to vibrational effects ensuing from spacecraft activities.  The troubles began a few months ago.  All other instruments are okay.  ESA is conducting a technical investigation.

--Cindy

Let's hope they are ok, it would be sad to see Mars Express develop problems now


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#188 2005-09-22 11:57:22

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Mars Express mission extended
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMUB08X9DE_index_0.html
ESA’s Mars Express mission has been extended by one Martian year, or about 23 months, from the beginning of December 2005.

Further to providing an impressive wealth of scientific results on its own, Mars Express has also successfully co-operated with NASA’s Mars Exploration Rovers, in terms of co-ordinated scientific observations and to test Mars Express in relaying the rover data to Earth. Further scientific collaboration between Mars Express and both rovers and Mars Odyssey is expected during the remainder of the nominal mission and the extended mission, and with NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter mission during the extended mission.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#189 2005-09-28 10:28:10

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

status report
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object … ctid=38057
Overall Mission and Payload Status


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#190 2005-11-03 06:05:02

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Trouble with PFS

*Planetary Fourier Spectrometer.  They're wondering if it's due to vibrational effects ensuing from spacecraft activities.  The troubles began a few months ago.  All other instruments are okay.  ESA is conducting a technical investigation.

PFS operative again

*The pendulum motor failed.  Thankfully they were able to recover operations via use of a back-up motor.

Article gives a rundown of PFS's capabilities.

After switching to the instrument’s back-up motor, more powerful than the first one - the instrument has been shown to be able to produce science data just as before.  Following this recovery activity, PFS will start to take new measurements routinely in early November 2005.

Terrific. 

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#191 2005-11-03 07:43:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,729

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Here is the Mars Express radar collects first surface data from the ESA site.

But still no word on the search for underground water or of other deposits that might be worthwhile for further study and or use by future missions.

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#192 2005-11-18 05:42:43

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

For the four month operational period up to now, Mars Express has been making its closest approaches to Mars predominantly in the daytime portion of its orbit. The MARSIS radar's scientists are mainly collecting data about the upper layers of the Martian atmosphere, or 'ionosphere', which is the highly electrically conducting layer that is maintained by sunlight.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/marsexpress-05zg.html
They are also continuing the laborious analysis of all data gathered during the first night-time observations last summer, especially in the search for and interpretation of possible signals from subsurface layers. This includes the search for a possible signature of underground water, in frozen or liquid state.


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#193 2005-11-18 06:30:37

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

For the four month operational period up to now, Mars Express has been making its closest approaches to Mars predominantly in the daytime portion of its orbit. The MARSIS radar's scientists are mainly collecting data about the upper layers of the Martian atmosphere, or 'ionosphere', which is the highly electrically conducting layer that is maintained by sunlight.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/marsexpress-05zg.html
They are also continuing the laborious analysis of all data gathered during the first night-time observations last summer, especially in the search for and interpretation of possible signals from subsurface layers. This includes the search for a possible signature of underground water, in frozen or liquid state.

*Excellent.  smile  Especially interesting about the Martian ionosphere.

Thank you for the update, YL Rocket.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#194 2005-11-30 16:30:27

Commodore
Member
From: Upstate NY, USA
Registered: 2004-07-25
Posts: 1,021

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Jackpot!!!

Mars Express has become the first spacecraft to detect reserves of water ice deep beneath the surface of the Red Planet, experts have announced.

The Marsis radar experiment carried onboard appears to have discovered water ice more than 1km below ground.

It is thought the greatest reservoir of retained water on Mars could be found beneath the surface, perhaps providing a habitat for microbial life.

The US-European Marsis team report their findings in the journal Science.

Underground layered deposits at the planet's north pole have an upper unit thought to be dominated by water ice. This water ice is believed to be nearly pure, with only about 2% contamination by dust.

Beneath this ice layer is a lower unit containing sand cemented with water ice.

Buried crater

Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding (Marsis) data from Chryse Planitia, in the planet's northern equatorial region, reveal an almost circular structure about 250km across, lying about 2km underground that the authors propose is a buried impact basin.

Chryse Planitia is thought to have been shaped by massive outflow of floodwaters from the Valles Marineris region and other areas of the northern highlands.

A linear feature in the presumed crater is though to represent the floor of the impact basin. The strength of the reflection possibly suggests there is a body of water ice preserved in the impact basin dating from the time of the outflow.

"If the water got trapped there it could still be there even billions of years later," Jeff Plaut, Marsis principal investigator at Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, told the BBC News website.

He added: "We have found no convincing evidence yet for subsurface liquid water."

Roberto Seu of the University of Rome "La Sapienza" told the BBC News website: "Due to the complexity of the data processing, we are trying to confirm our hypotheses with further analyses.

"We need to be careful, Marsis is an unprecedented instrument, so there are no other data sets to compare it with."

Go south

The science team will begin using the radar experiment to search for liquid water in late December.

During this period of science operations, which will last until March 2006, Marsis will collect data from the southern polar region and mid-latitude regions.

Data collection with Marsis is to a large extent dependent on the orbit of Mars Express staying on the night side of the planet. Nighttime conditions are ideal for radar sounding; the planet's ionosphere hinders the technique and its effects are strongest during the day.

Two 20m-long (65ft) hollow fibreglass "dipole" booms comprise the instrument's primary antenna, while a 7m-long (23ft) "monopole" boom acts as a receive-only antenna.

Marsis sends out pulses of radio waves from the primary antenna to the planet's surface and analyses the time delay and strength of the waves that return.

Analysis of those waves that penetrate the soil and bounce back give information on transitions between materials with different electrical properties, such as rock and water.


"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

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#195 2005-11-30 21:59:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,729

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Here are the ESA web site pages as well, happy reading and wow hoooo...
lol  big_smile

Mars Express evidence for large aquifers on early Mars

[url=http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Results_from_Mars_Express_and_Huygens/SEM7ZTULWFE_0.html]Buried craters and underground ice -
Mars Express uncovers depths of Mars[/url]

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#196 2005-12-01 02:55:17

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

Good thing I visited Slashdot first. A guy nicknamed routerguy666 saved me from some copy/pasteing...
I was going to post exactly the same as he did:


"have interpreted it as"

"possibly containing"

"not ruling out"

"could be interpreted as"

"what may be"

"the intriguing possibility"

"prior interpretations"

"scientists were able to draw the likely scenario"

"but the search has only begun"

Headlines popping up arund the 'net like "VAST HUUUUGE MAGASUBSURFACE WATERLAYERS RAHRAHRAH" are, IMO at least -a bit- premature wink


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#197 2005-12-01 06:24:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,729

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

The head lines of which some are calling it water versus some calling it ICE is part of the problem. When most think of ICE they infer that it is frozen water and on mars it may just be Dry Ice or frozen CO2. But even if it is the latter it does give the possiblity for colonization a chance.

I am wondering how close to the rovers the crater of study is?

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#198 2005-12-01 07:08:34

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

*Rik:  It's good to approach (or "check") this in the manner you have...but sometimes it seems you are highly skeptical of Mars Express overall.  Or am I misunderstanding your general sentiment regarding Mars Express?  Perhaps you are only skeptical about MARSIS?

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#199 2005-12-01 07:23:36

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

I'm hiiiiiiiighly enthousiastic about Mars Express. Let there be no doubt about that. After all, who started this thread, and subtitled it "success!" wink


But, but, but... And the Mars Experess people are *the first* to point this out in virtually every interview they use technology (the subsurface mapping) that even on Terra is difficult to interprete, and here we have the luxury to correlate similar experiments with other measurements, 'ground-truth' drillings etc. etc...

And now they have *very* interesting stuff, and I'm excited, but the stuff is oooooh sooooo preliminary, and they are soooooo careful not to yell : "Water, water, Aquefiers, Wet Mars, Life, Teraforming OMGWTFBBQ!"

But yet all the media goes in to  a frenzy, waterwaterwaterOMGWTFBBQ.

And I HHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTEEEEEE that. It's pure speculation, and by the time they conclude their studies, and can say yes or no, no-one will notice. Everyone will say, bof, that's old news, etc.


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#200 2005-12-01 17:56:39

Commodore
Member
From: Upstate NY, USA
Registered: 2004-07-25
Posts: 1,021

Re: Mars Express (MEX) - ESA orbiter

There just covering their butts on the off chance that they are wrong.

If there was a dispute about it, they'd have handfull of other possibilities of what it could be.


"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

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